[Resto] Mythic + advice

[Alltat]

Is Cultivation better than tree because it's an additional HoT for Mastery to work off?

No. That's "just" a very nice bonus. The main selling point of Cultivation is that it adds up to a very large amount of healing done on progression fights, and it's concentrated on people who actually need it. Looking at last week's Xavius kill, Cultivation did just over 10% of my total healing. All of it essentially smart.

Likewise with Cenarion Ward, I've got the legendary bracers so I'm regularly stacking Swiftmend with Flourish for like 23 seconds of Cenarion Ward... 23k mana for 2.5m healing seems pretty good to me.

Cenarion Ward heals for a ridiculous amount. That alone is reason enough to take it. It's useful both for stabilizing tanks and for keeping DPS alive, especially if there's a DoT on them. The spell is clumsy and awkward and there's really no point when you can actually make use of its unique mechanics, but it heals for so much that it doesn't matter.

[Deleted]

No. That's "just" a very nice bonus. The main selling point of Cultivation is that it adds up to a very large amount of healing done on progression fights, and it's concentrated on people who actually need it. Looking at last week's Xavius kill, Cultivation did just over 10% of my total healing. All of it essentially smart.


Cenarion Ward heals for a ridiculous amount. That alone is reason enough to take it. It's useful both for stabilizing tanks and for keeping DPS alive, especially if there's a DoT on them. The spell is clumsy and awkward and there's really no point when you can actually make use of its unique mechanics, but it heals for so much that it doesn't matter.

Ah I see, didn't know that about Cultivation! From a M+ point of view it sounds like it could be useful but at the same time tree it also useful for burst healing/accidental overpulls then.

Yeah I'm using Mouse-overs for everything including Cenarion Ward, just pre hotting the tank and dpsing for the first 15-20 seconds of every fight >.>

[markos82]

As far as I know, there haven't been any serious theorycrafting done on the subject. Everything I've seen has been based on speculation rather than actual log data, so take it with a grain of salt. The only thing that's certain is that mastery is better in a dungeon than a raid. But whether it's enough to overtake haste, no one seems to actually know for sure.

Ok then I need more mastery What should i scrap? crit or haste?

Cenarion Ward. It's basically mandatory for mythic+. Swiftmend helps too, so make sure you don't waste it. Pre-HoT the tank with Lifebloom and double Rejuvenations (Germination is arguably also mandatory), and they should be fine. Remember to use Ironbark and the staff buff too. All of this is on short cooldowns.

I wasnt sure about Cenation Ward as option because if you pre cast Swiftmend your Wild Growth heals more, right? I guess ill try with CW and see how it goes.

Vuhdo does what Healbot does but has even more configuration options. Depending on what it is you want to track exactly, WeakAuras might also be worth getting. It can do a billion things to the point where it's hard to really describe what the addon even is, but it's great for tracking things like Efflorescence.

I know what WeakAura is just never used it to heal. I guess Ill have to look into some nice WA and try to set them up, something that can track my dots more easily i guess.

Thanks for answers

[Nythiz]

1. What is the stat priority for Mythic+ healing, I read its int > haste > mastery > crit is that true or not, because if its true then I need to find a way to get more mastery since i have well under 10%

It's really hard to get a good stat priority for healing in general. And in M+ it's no different.

The pro's of each stat are:
- Mastery: Gives a huge healing bonus if you can stack multiple HoTs. You'll need 2+ HoTs on someone to make it better than other stats, which for raids is a tough job if there is a lot of damage going around; but for M+ this is easily obtainable. And especially for tank healing this is HUGE, as you nearly always have 3+ HoTs up on the tank, and you can easily get up to 6+ HoTs on the tank (Rejuv/Germ/LB/Regrowth/CW/Cult/WG). With 20% mastery that is 120%+ extra healing done.

- Haste: Really good stat because it double dips for HoTs. Not only are your HoTs doing more overal healing and healing per second (as they tick faster, yet retain their total duration); but you can also cast them faster as you reduce the cast time / GCD. So it's double effective.

- Crit: Overal simply a good stat. For HoTs I find crits to be more effective than for direct heals as you don't get these burst healing moments. On a direct heal, crit can lead to overhealing; on a HoT those crits are averaged out a bit more over the course leading to simply more healing without really having these spikes.

- Versatility: Basically the same for everyone here.

For M+ I would rate it as: Mastery > Haste > Crit > Vers

2. How should i keep ppl up ( tank especially ) when we pull trash because boss fights weren't that difficult. What spells do i need to cast ( pre cast ) and in which order?

You'll want to have your 3 primary HoTs rolling on the tank at all time. Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Germination (importance in that order as well)
Pre pull it's often a decent idea to also toss in a CW, as the pull tends to be a tricky time for a lot of tanks. Tanks are very focused on positioning and gaining threat and at times need to build resources.
After that you can apply Regrowths (for yet another mastery stack) and make sure you keep the 3 main HoTs rolling. After that there really isn't that much more you can do.

3. I was using healbot and I found it pretty EZ to use, 3 buttons on 3 keys giving me 12 spells that I can easily cast, is there some other useful addon that I can use, some that will track my hots easier?

Vuhdo is IMO the best. Mostly because you can tweak it entirely the way you want it. If there is a nasty boss debuff that you really need to track, you can set that up to show an icon or change the bar color. Need to track certain HoTs, easy to set up with Vuhdo as well.
I personally have different Vuhdo profiles for different group sizes. So for 5 man i have larger healing bars than for 40 man raids.

Is Cultivation better than tree because it's an additional HoT for Mastery to work off? Can't imagine doing certain pulls without tree, quite often end up using it with Innervate.

I personally find Tree to be a bit too weak of a cooldown. 3 minutes for something which provides me with extremely little benefit.
What do you really get with tree:
- WG spreads to 2 more targets: Worthless
- Rejuvenation heals for 50% more and costs less mana. Latter is mostly worthless as you can drink after pulls; the former is nice but doesn't hold up to CW.
- Regrowth casts are instant. This is only really useful if you have to move a lot. Because Regrowth still costs a GCD which is the same as it's cast time. So you're not casting Regrowths faster than you would outside of ToL form.

So the only benefit here really is the +15% healing. Cultivation as a mastery stack gives more +healing if you have mastery above 15% (which you should) and it's applied passively as well.

I don't see how cultivation isn't better than ToL even in an emergency situation.

Likewise with Cenarion Ward, I've got the legendary bracers so I'm regularly stacking Swiftmend with Flourish for like 23 seconds of Cenarion Ward... 23k mana for 2.5m healing seems pretty good to me.

CW is really good. The problem is also that the other 2 talents don't really give much.

Prosperity gives you an extra Swiftmend; but CW is better than a swiftmend. So I'm not really seeing the huge benefit in this.
Sure, Swiftmends healing is applied instantly, so there is merit in that. But you don't lose swiftmend without the talent. Plus the benefit of Prosperity largely disappears when you used up all your charges. CW stays really good even (and/or especially!) in prolonged fights.

Abundance isn't all that great either. Healing Touch doesn't do enough for resto druids. So the main benefit here is the increased crit chance on Regrowth. If that's your thing, then go for it. But I don't see a situation where that is going to outshine the healing CW does.

Ok then I need more mastery What should i scrap? crit or haste?

I would go with Mastery > Haste > Crit.
Haste and Crit aren't that far apart, but with the double dip on haste as explained earlier. It not only makes you do more healing, but you can apply that healing faster. (due to reduced cast time and GCD). Which is good in clutchy situations in M+

I wasnt sure about Cenation Ward as option because if you pre cast Swiftmend your Wild Growth heals more, right? I guess ill try with CW and see how it goes.

The above is only true if you pick up Soul of the Forest talent in T75. Soul of the Forest isn't particularly bad; but it mostly shines in Raids where a lot of your healing comes from Wild Growth. In M+ this talent is inferior to Cultivation in my experience.

CW takes some time to get used to, as it adds another button to your action bar. There are a few good situations where it helps out a lot:

1) On the pull. Certain tanks take a lot more damage on the pull. This can be due to positioning and grabbing threat. It can also be due to the type of tank. DH and DKs for example are very reactionary in their mitigation. So they'll chunk a bit at the start as they have no pro-active mitigation for a lot of situations.

2) If your HoTs have fallen off for some reason (could be mechanical reason; or just because you forgot, we all screw up like that sometimes ). CW can buy you some time as you reapply them.

3) When your tank is taking more damage than you're healing even though you have full HoTs rolling on him. There are times when my tank has all 3 main HoTs (LB/Rejv/Germ) and a Regrowth HoT rolling and his health bar is still going down faster than it's going up. This is where CW shines as there are little to no cases where you won't bring the health bar back up when this is thrown on top.

[markos82]

It's really hard to get a good stat priority for healing in general. And in M+ it's no different.

The pro's of each stat are:
- Mastery: Gives a huge healing bonus if you can stack multiple HoTs. You'll need 2+ HoTs on someone to make it better than other stats, which for raids is a tough job if there is a lot of damage going around; but for M+ this is easily obtainable. And especially for tank healing this is HUGE, as you nearly always have 3+ HoTs up on the tank, and you can easily get up to 6+ HoTs on the tank (Rejuv/Germ/LB/Regrowth/CW/Cult/WG). With 20% mastery that is 120%+ extra healing done.

- Haste: Really good stat because it double dips for HoTs. Not only are your HoTs doing more overal healing and healing per second (as they tick faster, yet retain their total duration); but you can also cast them faster as you reduce the cast time / GCD. So it's double effective.

- Crit: Overal simply a good stat. For HoTs I find crits to be more effective than for direct heals as you don't get these burst healing moments. On a direct heal, crit can lead to overhealing; on a HoT those crits are averaged out a bit more over the course leading to simply more healing without really having these spikes.

- Versatility: Basically the same for everyone here.

For M+ I would rate it as: Mastery > Haste > Crit > Vers

Thanks for the inputs, atm i really lack mastery, was at 9% now i'm at 12%, so i guess I need a lot more just don't have any gear to sacrifice other stats,
Have 20% crit, 26%haste and 12% mastery. The best I can do is drop to 21% crit, 21% haste and 15% mastery. What is best option?


Thanks for other stuff as well, will download VuhDo and try to figure it out

[Purpleisbetter]

on my M+ thanks to my newest upgrades (or sidegrades, since my ilvl didn't change at all), i'm getting my first 2.4M SM crits with 400k-ish LS attached to it

I overheal from naught to 100% a 873 dps. I don't think i'll ever, ever need CW in any scenario.

CW heals for more, but really, there's no need to heal more then that. I unlocked a 27s 2charges Lay on Hand.

I'm quite stacked on mastery (26%) and i'm honestly prone to think i simply overdid my mastery stacking and i should go haste>crit>mastery for a bit and swap back to CW.

[Puupi]

I switched from Germination to Spring Blossoms and don't regret it at all. Saves tons of mana and time. You can use those 5 free globals to do dps or cast regrowths/healing touches around. A great quality of life change.

[Alltat]

on my M+ thanks to my newest upgrades (or sidegrades, since my ilvl didn't change at all), i'm getting my first 2.4M SM crits with 400k-ish LS attached to it

I overheal from naught to 100% a 873 dps. I don't think i'll ever, ever need CW in any scenario.

CW heals for more, but really, there's no need to heal more then that. I unlocked a 27s 2charges Lay on Hand.

I'm quite stacked on mastery (26%) and i'm honestly prone to think i simply overdid my mastery stacking and i should go haste>crit>mastery for a bit and swap back to CW.

You say that as if you lose Swiftmend if you pick another talent. But it's just a small cooldown reduction. Cenarion Ward still heals for more and you can cast both of them and have them both up again in thirty seconds. With prosperity it takes 54 seconds to recover.

[peki]

on my M+ thanks to my newest upgrades (or sidegrades, since my ilvl didn't change at all), i'm getting my first 2.4M SM crits with 400k-ish LS attached to it

I overheal from naught to 100% a 873 dps. I don't think i'll ever, ever need CW in any scenario.

CW heals for more, but really, there's no need to heal more then that. I unlocked a 27s 2charges Lay on Hand.

I'm quite stacked on mastery (26%) and i'm honestly prone to think i simply overdid my mastery stacking and i should go haste>crit>mastery for a bit and swap back to CW.

2.4m, id love to see a screenshot or log

[Cheze]

figuring out precise weights is difficult because you have to make a variety of assumptions about talents and circumstances to weigh mastery, but for m+ you should prioritize haste/mastery. Mastery is super valuable since anything taking damage of any significance in a five man will have 2-3 hots at least, and haste is much better than crit when you aren't doing a large portion of your hps with tranquility (which you aren't in m+.)

you are still generally best served to just use the highest-ilvl piece that you have, though

[Purpleisbetter]

2.4m, id love to see a screenshot or log

That's a non crit,SM. Hots up were 5 (2x Rej,LB, WG and LS, at least, i think that was up). Used no consumable because sh*t is expensive.

There are 2 catches tho: i've 3x SM relics, all coined (unlucky :/). The big crit was made on a monk tank, i'm afraid; celestial fortune and stuff. It's still a lot, can't complain \o/ .
For clarity, celestial fortitude it's a 65% healing received increase.

As soon as i'll replicate such a "hit", i'll repost.