Stupid cards

[PPN]

Some cards are really just stupid for the game. I mean all those cards that you play and it happens all at once. I have these cards too and i also had decks including those cards, but the longer they are around the more annoying it is to see them.

Nzoth, Yogg, Cthun, Anyfin, Mysterious Challenger...dont know, what did i forget...

Im not saying that they are op, they just encourage super stupid gameplay. What mostly happens is that they autowin/ruin an exciting game.

Yogg maybe doesnt count, since its to random. But whats funny about it just to throw out nzoth and win? Bleh

[HisDudeness]

I refuse to play secret paladin or anyfin paladin. I stray away from brainless decks. What irks me is trying to have some fun in casual play and encountering such decks. I don't get why people do that.

[Pantalaimon]

How does N'Zoth encourage stupid gameplay, let alone autowin games? The card encourages more intentional deck building (ie for non-paladin decks you are having to do decide which deathrattles are worth including in your deck to synergize with N'Zoth instead of including a possibly better neutral or class minion. Also, if you are a smart warrior you are going to hold onto a brawl for N'Zoth or Pyro/equality or Equality/consecrate as pally to instantly answer N'Zoth's board flood or you deserve to lose to the card. Any other play is a misplay when you know the opponent is probably running the old god.

As for C'Thun, I see nothing to complain about. Unless you are going to tharuassian it you can never really play it before turn 10 and even when it is dropped plenty of classes have rebound plays to destroy the old god and stabilize their health in the same turn (freeze/reno mage, priest, control paladin, control warrior). Personally I think people who QQ about C'Thun really are simply complaining that games can actually be decided by turn 10 or later once in awhile instead of the typical aggro range of turn 3-6.

As a side note, I notice most of your cards are battlecry minions. Ever think that battlecry minions are the most impactful because hard removal are the really stupid cards in the game? If hard removal wasn't so effective at making most non-battle cry minions null and void then I think Blizzard would tone down more battlecry effects. There are really only a few minions that are really impactful without being battlecry minions (such as Sylvannas, Highland, Thaurassian (which is pretty much a pseudo battlecry minion, & a few others).

[Nikkaszal]

Autowin? What?

All of the decks you mentioned are countered by recognising what they are from the get-go, and then by not being stupid

Anyfin? Go face with everything you have as soon as you see the first murloc. If you're a mage, priest or shaman you have it even easier, as poly/hex/entomb on his Warleaders basically pulls all his teeth.

Nzoth? Save your board clear, and/or transform the highest priority targets like Sylv, Cairne, Tirion. Dont be an idiot and play both Brawls before you see Nzoth, for example.

Cthun? Relies on (a) actually drawing Cthun and (b) having you low enough to one-shot you with its battlecry. Hard countered into oblivion by Reno mage

Dr 6? If you play Wild, tech for Eater Of Secrets. GG.

Not a single one of these decks are auto-win. In fact I havent seen Cthun in weeks, and Nzoth is getting rarer.

[NED funded]

Autowin? What?

All of the decks you mentioned are countered by recognising what they are from the get-go, and then by not being stupid

Anyfin? Go face with everything you have as soon as you see the first murloc. If you're a mage, priest or shaman you have it even easier, as poly/hex/entomb on his Warleaders basically pulls all his teeth.

Nzoth? Save your board clear, and/or transform the highest priority targets like Sylv, Cairne, Tirion. Dont be an idiot and play both Brawls before you see Nzoth, for example.

Cthun? Relies on (a) actually drawing Cthun and (b) having you low enough to one-shot you with its battlecry. Hard countered into oblivion by Reno mage

Dr 6? If you play Wild, tech for Eater Of Secrets. GG.

Not a single one of these decks are auto-win. In fact I havent seen Cthun in weeks, and Nzoth is getting rarer.

Eater of secrets doesn't really touch secret paladin. Sure they have a 6/8 but you still have the tempo from earlier turns. And if you draw N'zoth it's GG for them. Zoolock and freeze mage are the only counters that ive seen. And freeze mage is basically dead due to the prevalence of secret of eaters.

[PPN]

Autowin? What?

All of the decks you mentioned are countered by recognising what they are from the get-go, and then by not being stupid

Anyfin? Go face with everything you have as soon as you see the first murloc. If you're a mage, priest or shaman you have it even easier, as poly/hex/entomb on his Warleaders basically pulls all his teeth.

Nzoth? Save your board clear, and/or transform the highest priority targets like Sylv, Cairne, Tirion. Dont be an idiot and play both Brawls before you see Nzoth, for example.

Cthun? Relies on (a) actually drawing Cthun and (b) having you low enough to one-shot you with its battlecry. Hard countered into oblivion by Reno mage

Dr 6? If you play Wild, tech for Eater Of Secrets. GG.

Not a single one of these decks are auto-win. In fact I havent seen Cthun in weeks, and Nzoth is getting rarer.

Yes i know how such a deck works in theory and how you can fuck those noobs up...in practice its not always working, because those cards support stupid gameplay.

Usually you have an aggressive deck, or midrange or control...

These cards dont give any sense to the game, its about:

1. Do nothing yourself
2. Play destructive
3. If you succeeded long enough in doing nothing smart, get rewarded with a one turn zeroskill lol win

I guess im just to much stuck with the idea that Hearthstone should promote creativity xD

[minteK917]

Most of the cards you mentioned are not a problem in standard. The real problem right now is some classes given a deck with easy answer to anything. Something even the old Op patron warrior did not have. Mid range shaman, control warrior, malygos druid. Random cards are a boring gameplay problem. But even without them, these classws with easy good answers almost for all ready, kills any diversity for anything else.

[Nikkaszal]

Yes i know how such a deck works in theory and how you can fuck those noobs up...in practice its not always working, because those cards support stupid gameplay.

Usually you have an aggressive deck, or midrange or control...

These cards dont give any sense to the game, its about:

1. Do nothing yourself
2. Play destructive
3. If you succeeded long enough in doing nothing smart, get rewarded with a one turn zeroskill lol win

I guess im just to much stuck with the idea that Hearthstone should promote creativity xD

There is literally nothing stopping you from being creative. Several decks I was playing last season and this one are non-meta, with good effect... designed to counter the most prominent meta decks (totem shaman and Anyfin).

Less whining, moar solutions

[minteK917]

There is literally nothing stopping you from being creative. Several decks I was playing last season and this one are non-meta, with good effect... designed to counter the most prominent meta decks (totem shaman and Anyfin).

Less whining, moar solutions

First the two deck you just mentioned are not even popular. Its mid range shaman, most use bloodlust not the totem variant. Anyfin is not even in the top 20 decks right now. Malygos druid, control warrior, tempo mage. Why not link your non meta deck to help him? I know why, but anyway the fact is there is no non meta deck that beats the flood of mid range shaman, malygos druid and control warrior. You play one of those or play one of the mage deck to either prey on shaman or control warrior. If you play tempo shaman beats you and you beat control warrior, if you play freeze you beat shaman, but control warrior beats you in their sleep. Wanna know why that non meta deck that beats the top 3 deck does not exist...... BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A META DECK THAT BEATS THE 3 MOST POPULAR DECK AND INSTEAD OF 35% SHAMAN IN LADDER IT WOULD BE 35% OF YOUR SECRET DECK TO BEAT THEM ALL.

[Nikkaszal]

First the two deck you just mentioned are not even popular. Its mid range shaman, most use bloodlust not the totem variant. Anyfin is not even in the top 20 decks right now. Malygos druid, control warrior, tempo mage. Why not link your non meta deck to help him? I know why, but anyway the fact is there is no non meta deck that beats the flood of mid range shaman, malygos druid and control warrior. You play one of those or play one of the mage deck to either prey on shaman or control warrior. If you play tempo shaman beats you and you beat control warrior, if you play freeze you beat shaman, but control warrior beats you in their sleep. Wanna know why that non meta deck that beats the top 3 deck does not exist...... BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A META DECK THAT BEATS THE 3 MOST POPULAR DECK AND INSTEAD OF 35% SHAMAN IN LADDER IT WOULD BE 35% OF YOUR SECRET DECK TO BEAT THEM ALL.

Kay

/tenchar

[minteK917]

Kay

/tenchar

Great answer, lots of details. Like i said just hot air. When everybody at blizzcon ban and complain about a single class. Time is to evaluate that perhaps you have no fucking clue what you are talking about? Why arent all the better players than you playing decks that constantly beat shaman easily and never ban them to crush others? Because only one such a deck exist right now and it loses to everything else thats popular.

[HisDudeness]

Don't reason with Nikkaszal. I stayed off this forum due to him and a few others as you just couldn't reason with them. Counter this, create decks this way yadda yadda bs. He's a God at this game. He knows all.

[apepi]

Honestly Yogg was kinda necessary because blizzard screwed the meta where it is super hard to reclaim the board.

[Pantalaimon]

First the two deck you just mentioned are not even popular. Its mid range shaman, most use bloodlust not the totem variant. Anyfin is not even in the top 20 decks right now. Malygos druid, control warrior, tempo mage. Why not link your non meta deck to help him? I know why, but anyway the fact is there is no non meta deck that beats the flood of mid range shaman, malygos druid and control warrior. You play one of those or play one of the mage deck to either prey on shaman or control warrior. If you play tempo shaman beats you and you beat control warrior, if you play freeze you beat shaman, but control warrior beats you in their sleep. Wanna know why that non meta deck that beats the top 3 deck does not exist...... BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A META DECK THAT BEATS THE 3 MOST POPULAR DECK AND INSTEAD OF 35% SHAMAN IN LADDER IT WOULD BE 35% OF YOUR SECRET DECK TO BEAT THEM ALL.

You're still ignoring his comment that you can be creative in your decks if you want. Unless your goal is to have the most consistent, highest win ratio, deck on ladder than nothing is stopping you from doing this. It also depends on what your goal in playing HS is. If you simply want to hit legend, but aren't stressed about getting there quickly, then you can certainly be creative in deck building and still reach that goal while being creative. Afterall, hitting legend isn't so much of a skill task, but is more of a time task. If you have a creative deck that had an overall win ratio of 51% you would eventually hit legend (though a 51% deck would obviously take much longer to do that than say a 60-70% creative deck). All that matters is that your deck maintains a positive ratio for decks that you'll encounter for whatever wall you're facing during each sections of the ranked brackets (especially ranks 5-1).

I can't help, but feel that you're just wanting to complain and find excuses to not make creative decks because other players using 'meta decks' or netdecking is a thing. Cookie cutter decks have existed in all card games and fun and/or creative decks usually have lower win rates across the board, regardless of the game. You have to just accept that HS is no exception to this 'rule' and play creative decks when you want to despite lower performance.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't reason with Nikkaszal. I stayed off this forum due to him and a few others as you just couldn't reason with them. Counter this, create decks this way yadda yadda bs. He's a God at this game. He knows all.

The thing is that sometimes the reasoning that is provided to people on here is actually the case. Maybe people speaking the truth is merely causing offense to people who don't want to hear that as one of the working answers?

Take people complaining about N'Zoth for example, me & plenty of others have stated the obvious way to play and win against that card (assuming the natural rng of card draws or other rng elements go your way) through saving board clears to immediately clear the board once N'Zoth hits. Warriors sitting on brawl and paladins sitting on an eqaulity combo are the best examples here. However, I've seen plenty of posters here that more or less imply that the game shouldn't be played that way & that N'Zoth is a broken card because it makes you sit on removal that the player 'shouldn't' have to sit on to counter the card. These same posters often will get upset by people being told to play smart (again, sitting on hard aoe removal in the N'Zoth example). It is these types of players you can't reason with. If people want to ignore that Brawl and Equality completely trash N'Zoth than sure the card would look like a OP card that can't really be played around.

[HisDudeness]

I really can't argue with you after that. A card is OP and you just admitted and defended it. What!!!??? Like I have said before, No one in the HS forum should ever balance a game. If a card is talked about or a deck constantly, consistently brought up and ruining the game, their should be a fix. Blizzard tries but they digging a bigger hole. The "try harder" technique doesn't work in RNG games.

[Pantalaimon]

I really can't argue with you after that. A card is OP and you just admitted and defended it. What!!!??? Like I have said before, No one in the HS forum should ever balance a game. If a card is talked about or a deck constantly, consistently brought up and ruining the game, their should be a fix. Blizzard tries but they digging a bigger hole. The "try harder" technique doesn't work in RNG games.

Yeah because drawing 1-2 cards for an aoe to fully basically fully clear your opponent's entire board before turn ten (or even later since many N'Zoth decks hold onto him past turn 10) and intelligently sitting on it to immediately answer the card & still have 5-6 more mana to finish your turn with is so awful.

Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth, but no I said that if you ignored the fact that both pallies and warriors have a 4-6 mana extremely efficient board clear to instantly counter N'Zoth & its minions that sure N'Zoth would look OP, not that it is OP. Your inability to actually form a counter argument to using removal effectively must have affected your reading comprehension. "Try harder" broseph.

Keep crying and hoping that Blizzard nerfs cards simply because you're too lazy to play smart and not let players bait you into wasting removal on the 'stupid cards' of HS and the rest of us will actually plan ahead for big threats and win conditions.

[minteK917]

Nzoth is not an issue, never was. Nzoth is actually a very balanced card that rewards setup and that has counter. The problem of this game are on the entire decks level. Some class have answers for everything and can do everything in a single deck. Mid range shaman is exactly that, IT DOES EVERYTHING. Some of those things it does better than a specialized deck that would be only good at one thing.

I played Shaman every single season since standard started to reach legend asap and than just play what ever the fuck i want because i dont give a shit about shamanstone. The class is a real problem. Its not one card. The class has boards clear that measure up to control decks, early minion that compete with zoo and face decks, card draw, unrivaled board filling, can actually beat many of the control classes even once fatigue is hit. Somehow its a MID RANGE DECK.

Some classes have no fucking board clear (rogues). Some class have no early game to speak of (priest). Standard nerfed all the 2-3-4-5 turn for almost every classes when it was introduced, except for Shaman. There is always that locked symbol next to the shaman icon in every single heartstone match of this blizzcon....... wow hard to figure why? Because the decks that has the best match up against can still lose to shaman and can lose to anything else. Nobody has a choice, but to ban shaman in tournaments. Does that sound like a good design? In ladder we cant ban shaman, otherwise you know what would happen, if you queue as a shaman, youd only play shaman, actually probably not, other shamans would also ban shamans. Youd be stuck in an endless queue with your shaman deck.

[Deleted]

Don't reason with Nikkaszal. I stayed off this forum due to him and a few others as you just couldn't reason with them.

That's pretty rich coming from you.

[HisDudeness]

Yeah because drawing 1-2 cards for an aoe to fully basically fully clear your opponent's entire board before turn ten (or even later since many N'Zoth decks hold onto him past turn 10) and intelligently sitting on it to immediately answer the card & still have 5-6 more mana to finish your turn with is so awful.

Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth, but no I said that if you ignored the fact that both pallies and warriors have a 4-6 mana extremely efficient board clear to instantly counter N'Zoth & its minions that sure N'Zoth would look OP, not that it is OP. Your inability to actually form a counter argument to using removal effectively must have affected your reading comprehension. "Try harder" broseph.

Keep crying and hoping that Blizzard nerfs cards simply because you're too lazy to play smart and not let players bait you into wasting removal on the 'stupid cards' of HS and the rest of us will actually plan ahead for big threats and win conditions.

Too lazy to play smart? Yes, You sit on board clears but you know what dude? Sometimes you need to use them to survive when you are actually losing without a N'zoth coming into play yet. You guys sit here and state the obvious over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. You can't plan ahead in HS cause you never know what ridiculous RNG is going to happen or if your equality/consecration is at the bottom of your deck. If you don't draw your board clears or need to use them early cause you are already way behind because you ARE PLAYING RIDICULOUSLY OP DECKS. That is the whole point of this. Reasonable people find a problem and state that it needs fixed. I never said N'zoth was a problem. I've been saying since day 1 on HS that HS consists every season of 4 decks. Nothing more. That is the problem.

People want to play different decks. Be creative yet competitive. Hearthstone makes that impossible. Yes, You can have fun with some crazy decks but as far as competitive? No. I refuse to climb ladder because I don't want to play the FOTM decks. They are boring. They are boring to play against as well. What I need to realize, Well I have but I still continue to fight is HS will never be a competitive game no matter how much Blizzard tries to prove it is. It will always be a RNG fest that is more fun to watch people getting destroyed by RNG then it actually happen to you. That's why the views are so high.

[Pantalaimon]

Too lazy to play smart? Yes, You sit on board clears but you know what dude? Sometimes you need to use them to survive when you are actually losing without a N'zoth coming into play yet. You guys sit here and state the obvious over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. You can't plan ahead in HS cause you never know what ridiculous RNG is going to happen or if your equality/consecration is at the bottom of your deck. If you don't draw your board clears or need to use them early cause you are already way behind because you ARE PLAYING RIDICULOUSLY OP DECKS. That is the whole point of this. Reasonable people find a problem and state that it needs fixed. I never said N'zoth was a problem. I've been saying since day 1 on HS that HS consists every season of 4 decks. Nothing more. That is the problem.

People want to play different decks. Be creative yet competitive. Hearthstone makes that impossible. Yes, You can have fun with some crazy decks but as far as competitive? No. I refuse to climb ladder because I don't want to play the FOTM decks. They are boring. They are boring to play against as well. What I need to realize, Well I have but I still continue to fight is HS will never be a competitive game no matter how much Blizzard tries to prove it is. It will always be a RNG fest that is more fun to watch people getting destroyed by RNG then it actually happen to you. That's why the views are so high.

Your example of not drawing into the answers for 'OP' cards can easily go the other way. Your opponent could just as easily have their best cards in the bottom of their decks. What then, are they still OP if their best cards are their last drawn cards?

Saying that HS consists of 4 decks actually isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. If the game has four decks in the top meta than ladder isn't just made up of 'Best Deck 1' & 'Best Deck 1's Counter'. There have been metas that have pretty much been that before.

Guess I'm going to have to break it down to you. Creative and/or fun decks only stay that way until the netdecking occurs, when the creative decks get netdecked and shared they are soon so widespread on ladder and/or casual that they are no longer creative (afterall, is something really creative when tens of thousands of people are doing it?). Now, if you then make those same types of creative and/or fun decks consistently competitive on top of it all what do you think will happen? The decks achieve high win ratios and the whole community labels of "cancer" and "toxic" start flooding the forums & streams; players start complaining about what was very initially a unique deck and start having to see it all of the time for the deck now has a high win ratio. In other words, a creative deck that is given the card tools and strategies to be competitive becomes EXACTLY what you're complaining about, a FOTM deck. Are you beginning to see why the thing that you're wanting is impossible to deliver without adding to the current problem? You can't have a creative and high win ratio competitive deck without people flocking to using the deck en masse on the ladder, resulting it players constantly facing it as the new FOTM frequently.