Blizzcon - talent changes

[Deleted]

Hi,

In the blizzcon, they are saying that they will redesign talents in 7.1.5.
But they also said that "The talents that 98% of players are taking may just need to be baked into the spec."

Do you think they are actually saying that momentum and bloodlet may become baseline ? Would be awesome, wouldn't it ? Being able to pick other talents without losing these ones would probably solve our ST issue, if these talents become baseline and replaces by some kind of ST buff.

What do you guys think ? Another disappointement in sight, or maybe some light in this darkness ?

[grizzlysaurusrex]

That one's more a tuning issue. I think they mean talents more like Soul Rending which is used by nearly every DH of both specs.

[JoshuaNLG]

I would've assumed they're thinking of talents like Last Resort and Fel Blade.

I can't imagine Momentum becoming baseline, because there are people who spec into nemesis solely to avoid that style of play, making it baseline would force it on players.

[Deleted]

Soul Rending seems likely candidate to become baseline. Fel Blade would be lovely too even though it's rare pick in current meta (damn you OP bloodlet).

Then again I can see them somehow "missing" this chance to change DH talents and skipping DH utility tune with 5% buff to darkness (or nerf, you literally never know with Blizz).

[Archimand]

soul rending for sure

[Burnick]

Fel blade, soul rendering for sure. Maybe sigil of chains

[Deleted]

Soul rending, maybe yes...
However I wonder what would replace it. Because in any case, if there is no changes on the other two, the new one will probably be the only decent one as well. Netherwalk and desperate instincts cannot be consider in any momentum build, as it means that we cannot dps for 5 sec with netherwalk, and we cannot control our FR reset with the second one. So I don't think we are taking Soul rending because it is better, but because the other 2 cannot be considered at all (maybe netherwalk in very very specific fights but let's be honest, we are not doing this).

Bloodlet baseline is, imo, not a so bad idea.
Momentum, I agree, may be an issue for those who really hate the play style, but it would also make official that dh gameplay is kind of unique.

[Realmerc]

netherwalk isn't that bad.. you can cancel it..

[Deleted]

netherwalk isn't that bad.. you can cancel it..

Netherwalk would be great if it didn't replace Blur.

[Littlepwny]

Soul Rending baseline, Felblade baseline, Last Resort Baseline along with rebalance for Desperate Instrincts and Netherwalk please (non-exclusive with Blur)!

[Deleted]

For Havoc it's probably Bloodlet and MotG snare. Fel Blade shouldn't be baked into a DH's base kit, it would create obnoxious balancing problems.

[JoshuaNLG]

For Havoc it's probably Bloodlet and MotG snare. Fel Blade shouldn't be baked into a DH's base kit, it would create obnoxious balancing problems.

For Havoc, sure, playing without Fel Blade as a Vengeance DH is miserable.

[Lindon]

For Havoc, sure, playing without Fel Blade as a Vengeance DH is miserable.

Opinions sure are awesome

[JoshuaNLG]

Opinions sure are awesome

[Jellospally]

For Havoc, sure, playing without Fel Blade as a Vengeance DH is miserable.

It's not miserable. Esp if you tank in raid you have infinite resources(practically)and in dungeons you want mass aoe talents sof fel blade isn't even a good choice it's just a worse option dmg wise overall pretty much.

[Blazefrost]

For Havoc, (IN MY OPINION ENTIRELY), it'd feel a lot better baseline if they made Demon Blades a slightly lower chance to proc but baked it in baseline, moved Felblade down to that tier, and changed the Soul Fragments talent to also proc off Demon's Bite as well. If they make Prepared reduce the cooldown of VR a bit more, it'll make it feel like targeted manual extra fury, chance procs for fury, and more passive fury without having to add an extra button into it. Felblade's a fun ability, but since it's a fury generator, needs to be either chaos damage or in the fury generation tier of talents, not in a tier with Bloodlet.

Speaking of Bloodlet, in that same tier is First Blood. If, in my opinion of what the changes should be (AGAIN MY OPINION (i'mprobablysowrongonthisstuffbutIwantedtosharemythoughts)) goes through, that tier would be a DoT based tier. Bloodlet offering strong DoT based off Throw Glaive for cleave, First Blood offering a weaker bleed (and increased damage to first target hit) for AoE bleed, and a single-target bleed option, perhaps called Lingering Chaos, making Chaos Strike apply a slowly increasing (as in stacking per application) Magic DoT.

Moving down a few tiers, Fel Eruption, between Momentum and Nemesis. This in particular kind of makes me wonder what the devs were thinking in this tier. You have two abilities that trigger a large %damage increase from something that are both viable based off circumstance, but then you got Fel Eruption, which deals 2~ crits of Chaos Strike in damage (if you hit a non-stunnable target) on a 35 second CD. This ability needs a rework or movement, due to how little you get out of it. Halving it's CD time would make it a little nicer if you need reliable stuns (Mythic+ targeting healing mobs), but if you also add a small increase to chaos damage taken by the target, say 5 to 10% for a few seconds after, that ability would feel a bit better compared to Nemesis and Momentum in making damage increases.

If you also, a tier down, change Demon Reborn to generate extra fury during Metamorphosis (not a super high amount, but some fury over the period of the change) it'd offset the Bloodlet-Master of the Glaive synergy that's dominating the Havoc meta. Unleashed Power, in the same tier, needs to also reduce the cooldown of Eye Beam or lower the fury cost of Blade Dance to offset the cleave and general improvement/AoE reset options to be a passive increase to rate of AoE attack.

Last tier, as it stands, Fel Blades and Fel Barrage are in good spots, but Demonic should probably last longer (Say, 8 or 10 seconds instead of 5), for the fact Eye Beam is a 45 second CD (30 if Unleashed Power affects it as I said in the paragraph above), to help it compete a bit more.

As for the defensive tier, one is an uncontrolled pop of our active mitigation and our extra fel-rush tool, one takes us out of DPSing entirely instead of being our extra fel-rush tool for 5 seconds (effectively making us wait half a fel rush charge to USE our extra fel rushes) and Soul Rending should just be baseline, since everyone uses it for a mix of survivability in "Oh Crap!" moments or to be tankier when raid wide damage is happening/tanks haven't moved the boss out of the bad but you still need to burn the boss. The whole tier needs a rework in terms of how it works since it interrupts our normal gameplay so jarringly or is so used it's essentially the only choice.

TLR; There's a lot about the Havoc tree that funnels people into optimal builds, that needs to be broken up so builds can change to more influence what type of fight you plan to excel in and where you want your extra fury and bonus %damage buff to come from.

[aGit]

Soul Rending seems likely candidate to become baseline. Fel Blade would be lovely too even though it's rare pick in current meta (damn you OP bloodlet).

Then again I can see them somehow "missing" this chance to change DH talents and skipping DH utility tune with 5% buff to darkness (or nerf, you literally never know with Blizz).

i wonder what would they put in place of souldrending in this kind of scenario where it would be baseline for both specs. i mean, the other 2 options are horrible, netherwalk is currently completely useless as it is not an immunity to effects like bubble, it's just damage immunity. you can't even use it to clear brambles without freedom. and desperate instincts is equally useless but for other reasons.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Well for vengeance there are a lot of ideas they can borrow from other tanks: 3rd charge on Demon Spikes, CD that resets both charges of Demon Spikes, etc.

For Havoc, maybe put the pvp talent that gives you Blur when you VR and replace it with new pvp talent that has VR clear snares/roots.

[truevalon]

For Vengeance Soul Rending should be baseline. Fracture too so we have a skill to spend pain on without spending souls.

[Kensio]

Hi,

In the blizzcon, they are saying that they will redesign talents in 7.1.5.
But they also said that "The talents that 98% of players are taking may just need to be baked into the spec."

Do you think they are actually saying that momentum and bloodlet may become baseline ? Would be awesome, wouldn't it ? Being able to pick other talents without losing these ones would probably solve our ST issue, if these talents become baseline and replaces by some kind of ST buff.

What do you guys think ? Another disappointement in sight, or maybe some light in this darkness ?

Another disappointement in sight

I'm not an optimistic person in video games