Balance in mythic+ question

[Albimoo]

Kind of sounding like a brken record but: Join a guild.

I ran like 200 m+ the first week and a half and was just in for realm first 15. Get in a group of people that will know you by your ability not your class.

There will always be people who decline you for a better class, it makes logical sense, they're in it for themselves, not to help you. Up to you to help yourself.

[Mayve]

So...what exactly do you mean by "solid aoe dps"? Well with +6 +7 everything dies pretty much under 15 seconds (definitely no more than 2 starfall duration) and I don't see how boomy can be competitive here. With +10 or higher/trash affix, the gap gets smaller but I don't really pug a +11 run.

People always prefer a hunter in a pug.

And that only makes us more useful like, I don't know, 25% of the time? And with gear progression, tanks can live through necrotic or whatever just fine.

Innervate doesn't mean much in mythic+ when you can drink between every pull. And if you are healing your group while your healer is drinking, you might as well have everyone just drink up that'll be more efficient.

When the tank dies to trash, we can't taunt every single mob at the same time and it's probably a wipe anyway. When the tank dies to a boss, hmm tbh I've never seen a tank died to a boss fight in mythic+. It's always about group damage and healers can't top up dps.

Yes I can complete a +10 on time, but how do you convince people to invite you in the first place? It's not like I'm going to copy paste everything you said whenever I apply to a group and people in pugs tend to look for strong aoe classes (dh, mage, hunter, monk, etc). Yes we have more utility than most classes, but at the end of the day, it's aoe dps that matters most.

lol you should run more mythic+ before you complain because you obviously don't know how to use utility well. The treants are amazing in mythic plus, not 25% of the time.

[warlockiii]

It's odd that the solution being suggested is to join a guild.... why? so you can get carried by friends since PUGs won't take you? Getting a guild won't change the fact the DPS is at the bottom. It's not like there aren't numbers that show this...

It's not bad boomkins that cause balance to not get invited. It's because there are many better options. AOE silence--who cares. Shamans, Warriors, DHs, and Monks have AOE stuns while not giving up damage. Battle rez can just as easily come from a DK or resto druid (or even a lock). Plenty of classes that do good/great trash damage also have utility.

[Albimoo]

It's odd that the solution being suggested is to join a guild.... why? so you can get carried by friends since PUGs won't take you? Getting a guild won't change the fact the DPS is at the bottom. It's not like there aren't numbers that show this...

It's not bad boomkins that cause balance to not get invited. It's because there are many better options. AOE silence--who cares. Shamans, Warriors, DHs, and Monks have AOE stuns while not giving up damage. Battle rez can just as easily come from a DK or resto druid (or even a lock). Plenty of classes that do good/great trash damage also have utility.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done Looks like a carry to me.

[Zan15]

A lot of balance druids play very poorly in m+, so people avoid them. Assuming that's the norm.
I've found balance druids VERY strong in 8+, you spend one trash pack building resource, and then fury of elune the next. And repeat. So every 2nd trash pack you do very average, but the other 2nd you will double anyone else in your group easily.

Don't try to compete on every trash pack, starfalling everything and just dotting is a waste of time. Play to your strengths. Which is a huge burst that lasts like 15 seconds, with your damage that's as long as the pack will last.

Hell, you can do the same thing in lower m+ too, just every third or so pack. It's not as juicy but it's still damn good burst.

its taking you 1.5m to do 2 trash pulls?

[warlockiii]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done Looks like a carry to me.

That is some sweet damage. That said, I linked a trend chart...you link a single outlier. I am going to bet most people aren't running around at 882 with 2 legendaries--including the #1 and #3 ranked for the spec.

Here is an 865 mage doing better a month ago.

[Albimoo]

Sure, and 67 million of that damage was on imps that are completely irrelevant in the scope of a mythic 15. Its completely silly to compare specs that are fulfilling different roles, i helped on some of the higher health trash packs and destroyed bosses by a large margin ahead of the other people in the group. If "outperforming" is blowing up imps that any class could kill but they just dealth with quickly then yeah i guess he got me.

The gear argument sure, but its not completely unreachable albeit maybe uncommon (i didnt start with what I have), but to link some other classes parse from some other run is silly and arbitrary.

[warlockiii]

Sure, and 67 million of that damage was on imps that are completely irrelevant in the scope of a mythic 15. Its completely silly to compare specs that are fulfilling different roles, i helped on some of the higher health trash packs and destroyed bosses by a large margin ahead of the other people in the group. If "outperforming" is blowing up imps that any class could kill but they just dealth with quickly then yeah i guess he got me.

The gear argument sure, but its not completely unreachable albeit maybe uncommon (i didnt start with what I have), but to link some other classes parse from some other run is silly and arbitrary.

I didn't realize that was you that you were linking. I am really happy at your being able to make balance work--and well. That said, the vast majority of boomies don't have your item level or relationship with RNGsus. I still think you can't dismiss the issues because a few people got game-changing legendaries, when the vast majority won't get them. A lot of people don't have one--and those that do aren't guaranteed to get one the helm. If it was farmable or obtainable like a set bonus or a gold trait, that'd be different.

[Emerald Archer]

its taking you 1.5m to do 2 trash pulls?

You're right, it is more like every 3rd pack, 30seconds a pack. I don't pay much attention to the details, I just go ham when I can. Which is still strong, boomies aren't the best, and they do need some buffs. But until then, they can easily do high m+. Pretty much every spec can except a few.

[xtramuscle]

It's odd that the solution being suggested is to join a guild.... why? so you can get carried by friends since PUGs won't take you? Getting a guild won't change the fact the DPS is at the bottom. It's not like there aren't numbers that show this...

It's not bad boomkins that cause balance to not get invited. It's because there are many better options. AOE silence--who cares. Shamans, Warriors, DHs, and Monks have AOE stuns while not giving up damage. Battle rez can just as easily come from a DK or resto druid (or even a lock). Plenty of classes that do good/great trash damage also have utility.

Yeah sure, you could bring a resto druid, a dk tank and a warlock. Then I'd guess you'd take a dh and fire mage and thats your comp?

Or you could take DK/Guardian (better tank setup) Resto shaman who has tide, link, lust (better healer setup) A boomkin, and still have a mage and dh if you really wanted.

It's all well and good saying this class brings this, and that class brings that, but balance brings them all. In one spot. You can't simply say X brings that, without remembering what you lose by having to take X for that spot.

Everytime I play with a new tank on +8 or more, and I explain how treants work, they're baffled they haven't had a boomie before. Yes, I'd say a holy pally is slightly better for necrotic bosses, as they can taunt without losing 2 gcds to shapeshift. But I can actually tank, they take a beating. Treants can taunt (and usually survive all mobs for 10 seconds) or I can typhoon and the tank can kite to drop stacks, making it possible to pull off some trash pulls you simply cant do otherwise.

While it might be true on average most boomkins are bad, I'd like to think the ones writing here are a little better, in that they're going to the right place, and have all the resources to hand. ..Also I find it hard to believe any feral can out do a boomie in m+ considering they have literally 0 aoe. And yet your logs clearly show them doing so.. funny that.

[dami1337]

Yeah sure, you could bring a resto druid, a dk tank and a warlock. Then I'd guess you'd take a dh and fire mage and thats your comp?

Everytime I play with a new tank on +8 or more, and I explain how treants work, they're baffled they haven't had a boomie before. Yes, I'd say a holy pally is slightly better for necrotic bosses, as they can taunt without losing 2 gcds to shapeshift. But I can actually tank, they take a beating. Treants can taunt (and usually survive all mobs for 10 seconds) or I can typhoon and the tank can kite to drop stacks, making it possible to pull off some trash pulls you simply cant do otherwise.
.

Would be great if somebody could create a short guide how tzo effectively use treants to support the tank as well as how to explain it to them. I have a problem using it as well as getting the tanks to understand how to leverage that

[xtramuscle]

They taunt, everything in their range. Some bosses are immune, and some 'big mobs' like the large naga thingy that patrols the bottom of the first path in eye of azshara. So if you have necrotic, and pull Alot if mobs + that pat you need to kill the pat first. There is no point taunt 10 mobs except that one because of that one swings the tank it refreshes stacks. Either kill it or gobear and taunt it. Necrotic lasts 10 seconds and so do treants, so wait til the stack is about to be refreshed, then drop them. Tell the tank either with a say macro or on comes, and if the mobs hit really hard tell them to move away so if treants die they're not instantly meleed and stacks refreshed. If you have a slow tank you can be ready to typhoon to widen the gap and daze the mobs.

[Deleted]

80% of the time, when people see Druid(DPS), they will assume it's feral. You have to tell them in advance that you're Balance Spec. Worked many times for me~ Or either they asked me before I could tell them.

[Deleted]

S


And that only makes us more useful like, I don't know, 25% of the time? And with gear progression, tanks can live through necrotic or whatever just fine.

Innervate doesn't mean much in mythic+ when you can drink between every pull. And if you are healing your group while your healer is drinking, you might as well have everyone just drink up that'll be more efficient.

here are your issues.

1 - innervate gives haste if not you suck at traits and underperforming for not having it anyway.

2 - treants can taunt, and lessen necrotic stacks on tanks.

3- if everything is so "easy" as you make it sound than it really doesn't matter which dps joins

you counter your own post, what about you listen to what people have to say instead of being butthurt over it.

[Kharahh]

here are your issues.

1 - innervate gives haste if not you suck at traits and underperforming for not having it anyway.

2 - treants can taunt, and lessen necrotic stacks on tanks.

3- if everything is so "easy" as you make it sound than it really doesn't matter which dps joins

you counter your own post, what about you listen to what people have to say instead of being butthurt over it.

Just to value add to the above two points to assist you in your boomkin knowledge:

1 - instance where you could innervate - tank pulls too much or someone derps or you wish to pull more to push the timer => healer thoroughput increases dramatically without sucking their mana dry meaning you can continue to the next pack ie less down time

2 - as a player, you should be watching raid frames for the tanks debuffs . 10 - 15 is a sweet spot for treants. You can also plan when to do this - big pack inc? save treants for this. Alternatively, if something goes wrong, you have treants to reset to allow both healer and tank to stabilise

I think you are deeply undervaluing the potential utility you have in your class

[Ifeanychukwu]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done Looks like a carry to me.

884 ilvl and two of our BiS legendaries. Hahahahaha. As if that's the norm for most balance druids, or any class for that matter.

[Deleted]

Just to value add to the above two points to assist you in your boomkin knowledge:

1 - instance where you could innervate - tank pulls too much or someone derps or you wish to pull more to push the timer => healer thoroughput increases dramatically without sucking their mana dry meaning you can continue to the next pack ie less down time

2 - as a player, you should be watching raid frames for the tanks debuffs . 10 - 15 is a sweet spot for treants. You can also plan when to do this - big pack inc? save treants for this. Alternatively, if something goes wrong, you have treants to reset to allow both healer and tank to stabilise

I think you are deeply undervaluing the potential utility you have in your class

you just told me how to use my abilities instead of what they do.

So i'm not undervalueing anything, there are way more things a druid can do with their abilities than just these 2 pointers. and can people stop thinking what they believe or not from 1 forum post xD obv im not going to type a guide or anything similar to explain every small details

[Kobjorn]

you just told me how to use my abilities instead of what they do.

So i'm not undervalueing anything, there are way more things a druid can do with their abilities than just these 2 pointers. and can people stop thinking what they believe or not from 1 forum post xD obv im not going to type a guide or anything similar to explain every small details

It's even more pathetic when you have so many said utilities (that other classes have or can provide alternatives as well) and still in the end it's pointless because others could do it easier and faster without even worrying about "taunting trash" or "surviving a big pull".

Here is your issue: When you think that you are performing well as a boomy, you are not looking at other specs. THERE ARE WAY MORE BETTER OPTIONS. Yeah you can do a +15 timed run with your friends. So what? That's not what the majority of the player base do. And when +10 pug runs become the norms as we progress (and it is pretty normal to pug +10 where I play), guess who will be more likely rejected?

- - - Updated - - -

80% of the time, when people see Druid(DPS), they will assume it's feral. You have to tell them in advance that you're Balance Spec. Worked many times for me~ Or either they asked me before I could tell them.

Wow. Never realized that's the case. Definitely worth trying

- - - Updated - - -

While it might be true on average most boomkins are bad, I'd like to think the ones writing here are a little better, in that they're going to the right place, and have all the resources to hand. ..Also I find it hard to believe any feral can out do a boomie in m+ considering they have literally 0 aoe. And yet your logs clearly show them doing so.. funny that.

It's not that boomkins are bad on average. There are even more bad mages or huntards out there and when they show up on your group finder list (assuming you don't know any of them), guess who will most likely be rejected?

[Deleted]

, guess who will be more likely rejected?

[guess who will most likely be rejected?

its an mmorpg . I'm not going to debate on a forum what randoms does. As stated " I am not"

people can do as they wish. I personally do not care for pugs or randoms.

it is not like you can "start group" right now and pug 7/7 mythic Emerald Dream.

Just like the same way, i hope it won't be possible to do with mythic+.

I see mythic+ on the same level as raiding just for 5m content, and i would like to keep it interesting.

so if there comes a day that everyone can run mythic+'s then it will be boring again.


If you wanna raid seriously in this game, you find yourself a raiding group. guess what? So should you at mythic+.

you have normal dungeons, if you are looking for casual stuff as lfr's.

[AetherMcLoud]

People always prefer a hunter in a pug.

Hunters have a battle rez now?