Mages' changes facing 7.1.5

[Eyliria]

Not generally disagreeing with your but Flame On is still extremely strong (3 charges, 4 seconds less CD for a charge to regenerate ... VERY STRONG)

And the 1.1 multiplier is still there

the 1.1 multiplier is 'gone'. We no longer get 1.1 chance to crit on certain spells, now, we get "10% more critical strike from all sources", which is subjective at this point (unsure if working as intended, you'll see)

I can point out the following:

Comparing my Live and PTR characters, same exact gear:

On Live, I have 13,346 crit rating, which gives me a total of 63.13% chance to crit.
On PTR, I have 14,681 crit rating, which gives me a total of 61.95% chance to crit.

Meaning, I have 10% more crit rating on PTR than I do on live ("10% more critical strike from all sources"), however, "all sources" seem to be, and only be, Crit Rating ITSELF.

I have norgannon's boots, which have 0 crit, but a ton of int, haste mainstat and mastery secondary.
Removing it makes no difference whatsoever on my critrating (DUH...)

Which makes me think that the secondary stat changes are not entirely in. Sure, they've been devalued some (need more crit rating per crit%)... but there is still absolutely zero reason to pass up crit pieces for other higher ilvl pieces with no crit, because, well, crit is still king point per point... And I was hoping that "10% more critical strike from all sources" would entail getting some crit% from other sources.


Either way, ST dmg took a big hit, not just in patchwerk numbers, but it will show more so on movement fights since ice floes is gone now, and we have to scorch on the run unless we can weave instacasts.

The change to Flame On is actually quite nice... it makes the rotation a lot better and fluid (CD is 3 seconds shorter and now have 3 charges)... to the point that I don't feel like I really *NEED* 60%+ crit to keep a nice rotation going.

However, since critting keeps the artifact trait rolling, and makes subsequent crits more powerful... that's not something they can just forget about.
The spec is built around critting often, and right now, while they've made it so baseline it is easier to deal with bad strings of no-crits... they've nerfed our crit chance by a bit, and nerfed our burst damage.

Nerfing the burst would be fine, if that means getting some love for the rest of the time (undo that pyro nerf, maybe, for starters?)

[Seramore]

If you check how the changes are posted for each class, you will notice:

The general class changes for each class (not spec specific, you can see the RoP nerf there, so I guess these changes will apply to both pve and pvp)

Then under PvP changes, you will see general changes and spec specific changes. If I was wrong, fire mages would now only have 1 stack of fireblast, but since it's under pvp changes, it will only be applied in pvp.

I'm not sure what you're reading but the way it's listed is: some ability changes(for all specs?) -> regular talents -> pvp talents -> ability changes per spec

[Mcpenco1234]

I'm not sure what you're reading but the way this is listed is some abilities changes(?) -> regular talents -> pvp talents -> ability changes

It's not very clear imo. I haven't got the chance to test it out on the PTR. So this means we will only have charges of FBL (with Flame on)?
If this is the case, RIP.

[sosaria]

It's not very clear imo. I haven't got the chance to test it out on the PTR. So this means we will only have charges of FBL (with Flame on)?
If this is the case, RIP.

People are reporting you get 3 fire blasts with Flame On.

Combustion is confirmed nerfed in PVE as well as PVP.

100k dps loss when they're doing dummies. It's a severe, spec gutting nerf.

[Seramore]

FB has two charges baseline for fire and one for the other specs, Flame On will give us 3 charges now.

[Mcpenco1234]

FB has two charges baseline for fire and one for the other specs, Flame On will give us 3 charges now.

I'm not sure I follow:

Fire & Frost
Fire Blast (Fire) Maximum 2 charges. Maximum 1 charges.

This is between the fire and frost general spell changes. How do we have 3 charges now if this clearly states that fire and frost only have 1 charge of fireblast.

[Rainingblue]

Are they really NOT changing legendary shoes? I'm gonna fall in tears.

[Deleted]

Well, I am probably going over this too quickly but damn.. I play frost and we'll be probably fine in PvE, frostbolt is nerfed but ice lance gets buffed. Actually I'm not entirely sure that lance gets buffed since the pvp talent changes are pretty much what we have on live anyway and I don't know the current numbers to be completely honest. We lose 2 guaranteed FoF every 30s and get a 40% increase of 12% makes it 16.8% proc chance on each frostbolt to proc FoF. Haven't done more calculations but this seems like a nerf.[/I]

The IL buff was largely due to the nerf to the chain reaction trait IMO, its 10% per point now. Makes sense and a good change IMO as a bad crit streak or movement that would cause you to drop CR stacks at the wrong time would cripple your damage, so should make things less RNG. As to the FT change, i think this is because they are not happy with how it props up TV so much, scaling wise uptime on Icy Veins is pretty insane with the right rng and relics. On some fights my downtime is less than 1min which on a 3min cds will be stupid broken later on with more crit and haste on gear. Not having the guaranteed 2xFoF will reduce IV uptime by quite a bit and stop this future issue.

It's cool and all that frost mages get to block twice again but the kiting in PvP is gutted, this hurts us in PvE as well. No more casting while moving since we'll probably need shimmer since otherwise we have a hard time landing poly's these days. Glacial seems like a buff but frostbolt is nerfed so don't know how that will add up I never really could calculate well with glacial damage :P If glacial gets buffed its probably is gonna get nerfed right away.[/I]

Frigid Winds says hi, the 15% is additional so 65% snare on chilling effects so kiting is far from gutted, tbh tho i doubt this will make it live, i can already hear the melee QQ in the distance if it does.

All in all, I rather be able to kite just a bit better not that it matters too much versus some classes but if I can't cast while moving and shimmer the chances on reliable poly's in arena's is going down real. So much for class fantasy, you're a mobile caster but blink is a 20s cd and you can talent into double blink or 3 casts while moving, jaw dropping really.[/I]

Having shimmer and icy floes was too strong in arena, healers should be able to use LOS to make it harder to cc them, having both those available pretty much negated a lot of the pillars/los in some arena maps so it was too strong. The new snare (if it goes live) will help with this, less uptime means less interupts(tho 10y interupt on some melee is fucking retarded imo, im looking at you mind freeze!!!)

One weird thing to note as well is that barrier now slows enemies by 50% instead of providing immunity while casting. Does this mean we don't have that without barrier anymore? If that's true be prepared for melee who'll have A LOT of uptime since ice barrier is dispellable. I mean frost wasn't even top tier anymore anyway. It was good but certainly no frost DK, feral or whatever.[/I]

Hope not, push back will be super annoying against rogues etc, tho it will snare to 65% with frigid winds.

For now I'll just wait but the following scares me now, more then it did before:
Class and Honor Talent updates for PvP in Patch 7.1.5 are underway, with many more to come.

Same here mate, i'm pleased with the CR change, the whole reason i switched from fire once the buffs landed in 7.1 was frost has less rng as well as just being a lot more fun. One thing i was hoping for though was Comet Storm to be made baseline to help us in the AoE department since we are never getting inv's to mythic+ without either an Arcane/Fire offspec.

[Mazzeric]

Are they really NOT changing legendary shoes? I'm gonna fall in tears.

Well, they're potentially useful now with Ice Floes gone for Fire and Arcane.. >_>

[Seramore]

I'm not sure I follow:

Fire & Frost
Fire Blast (Fire) Maximum 2 charges. Maximum 1 charges.

This is between the fire and frost general spell changes. How do we have 3 charges now if this clearly states that fire and frost only have 1 charge of fireblast.

It means what I typed in my last post, Fire gets a maximum of two charges and Frost gets a maximum of one charge. Flame On now grants an additional charge, meaning we have 3 charges with that talent.

[Helloagains]

I also don't understand the changes because fire was one of the most fluent and well-designed specs (imo) that I've played in a long time. OPness aside everything just felt pretty good.

[Nova8]

My guess on Frost is if we see any significant increase in dps numbers it will be with a glacial spike build. Besides that the thermal void build dps will basically be the same but maybe 5-10% higher dps since 30% of chain reactions ice lance buff is built in now.

Can anyone on the PTR check how brain freeze reads now and how long the chill debuff lasts? Its reading as it it doesnt give a flurry damage buff anymore so I was wondering if maybe they gave an extra second to the frozen window or something.

[Mcpenco1234]

It means what I typed in my last post, Fire gets a maximum of two charges and Frost gets a maximum of one charge. Flame On now grants an additional charge, meaning we have 3 charges with that talent.

Then why does it say:

Fire & Frost
Fire Blast (Fire) Maximum 2 charges. Maximum 1 charges.

[Lothrik]

Then why does it say:

Fire & Frost
Fire Blast (Fire) Maximum 2 charges. Maximum 1 charges.

Probably because it's datamined info and you're being foolish by trusting datamining instead of just believing people that have actually logged on the PTR and used Fire Blast?

[Eyliria]

Then why does it say:

Fire & Frost
Fire Blast (Fire) Maximum 2 charges. Maximum 1 charges.

Because you are looking at baseline fireblast, the very first version you get.

As you level up, fireblast changes. It becomes an automatic crit at some point... and then it gains the second charge.

[SafariDiscoLion]

Then why does it say:

Fire & Frost
Fire Blast (Fire) Maximum 2 charges. Maximum 1 charges.

http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/231567-fire-blast

Fire blast, rank 3, level 48. "Fire Blast now has 2 charges." Christ almighty, dude.

[Seramore]

Then why does it say:

Fire & Frost
Fire Blast (Fire) Maximum 2 charges. Maximum 1 charges.

...because the maximum charges changes depending on whether you're fire or frost. the first sentence is for fire, the second sentence is for frost

[Elboba]

Then why does it say:

Fire & Frost
Fire Blast (Fire) Maximum 2 charges. Maximum 1 charges.

Can confirm 3 charges with talent.

[Rascal Bob]

The IL buff was largely due to the nerf to the chain reaction trait IMO, its 10% per point now. Makes sense and a good change IMO as a bad crit streak or movement that would cause you to drop CR stacks at the wrong time would cripple your damage, so should make things less RNG. As to the FT change, i think this is because they are not happy with how it props up TV so much, scaling wise uptime on Icy Veins is pretty insane with the right rng and relics. On some fights my downtime is less than 1min which on a 3min cds will be stupid broken later on with more crit and haste on gear. Not having the guaranteed 2xFoF will reduce IV uptime by quite a bit and stop this future issue.



Frigid Winds says hi, the 15% is additional so 65% snare on chilling effects so kiting is far from gutted, tbh tho i doubt this will make it live, i can already hear the melee QQ in the distance if it does.



Having shimmer and icy floes was too strong in arena, healers should be able to use LOS to make it harder to cc them, having both those available pretty much negated a lot of the pillars/los in some arena maps so it was too strong. The new snare (if it goes live) will help with this, less uptime means less interupts(tho 10y interupt on some melee is fucking retarded imo, im looking at you mind freeze!!!)



Hope not, push back will be super annoying against rogues etc, tho it will snare to 65% with frigid winds.



Same here mate, i'm pleased with the CR change, the whole reason i switched from fire once the buffs landed in 7.1 was frost has less rng as well as just being a lot more fun. One thing i was hoping for though was Comet Storm to be made baseline to help us in the AoE department since we are never getting inv's to mythic+ without either an Arcane/Fire offspec.

Oh I didn't see the change to chain reaction under the rest of the ebonchill changes, probably missed that. I'm glad for that.

While I do agree with what your saying, some classes will have it hard with frigid winds but a lot simply don't, freedom, charge etc etc there are far more gap closers then gap openers in the game after all the pruning. Frost is squishy you have to be offensive and defensive at the same time because shatter sacrifices your roots in order to deal more damage. In older expansions you had deep freeze into -> poly now if you wan't to do the same you usually have to at least blink once and against good healers twice. Which means you have no mobility after that at all. Unless someone sets you up with a stun but that reduces the cross team cc you are gonna get for your setups.

Ice barrier absorb is reduced by quite a bit which was one of the few reasons you didn't get blown up on the spot. Normally you could delay the time they would be on you by walking and casting damage/poly having to stand still again is gonna be a pain.

All I think is that frost mages on live are far from as crazy as WW, fDK, ferals, ele burst and to a lesser extent enha and ret are. I'll just see what happens overall but I guess we'll suck for a bit and then get buffed again or something.

[Deleted]

Oh I didn't see the change to chain reaction under the rest of the ebonchill changes, probably missed that. I'm glad for that.

While I do agree with what your saying, some classes will have it hard with frigid winds but a lot simply don't, freedom, charge etc etc there are far more gap closers then gap openers in the game after all the pruning. Frost is squishy you have to be offensive and defensive at the same time because shatter sacrifices your roots in order to deal more damage. In older expansions you had deep freeze into -> poly now if you wan't to do the same you usually have to at least blink once and against good healers twice. Which means you have no mobility after that at all. Unless someone sets you up with a stun but that reduces the cross team cc you are gonna get for your setups.

Ice barrier absorb is reduced by quite a bit which was one of the few reasons you didn't get blown up on the spot. Normally you could delay the time they would be on you by walking and casting damage/poly having to stand still again is gonna be a pain.

All I think is that frost mages on live are far from as crazy as WW, fDK, ferals, ele burst and to a lesser extent enha and ret are. I'll just see what happens overall but I guess we'll suck for a bit and then get buffed again or something.

All true, tho most are alleviated by playing with a rogue and a holy pala

Also with Frigid winds Cone of Cold will be a 85% snare which will be uber strong.

- - - Updated - - -

My guess on Frost is if we see any significant increase in dps numbers it will be with a glacial spike build. Besides that the thermal void build dps will basically be the same but maybe 5-10% higher dps since 30% of chain reactions ice lance buff is built in now.

Can anyone on the PTR check how brain freeze reads now and how long the chill debuff lasts? Its reading as it it doesnt give a flurry damage buff anymore so I was wondering if maybe they gave an extra second to the frozen window or something.

Confirmed mate, its the same as live, still a 50% buff with 1.6s uptime of winters chill.

Also shattering with ebonbolt>flurry>ice nova is really big dick burst now as well!!!