Wolves: Europe vs America

[jimboa24]

I live in Northern California, and one of the news items that caught my eye today was the confirmed presence of two gray wolves in nearby Lassen County. Here in the States, over the last two decades or so, we've been slowly re-introducing wolves into the wild since they were almost driven out of the States by ranchers and hunters who didn't like the competition. When I was a kid, my family had a wolf-breed as a pet. Her mom was a full-blooded, red wolf that was found in the wild as a pup and raised in captivity, and a dad who was a half-blooded red wolf. So, when you looked at her, there was no mistaking that she was basically a wolf with a little dog in her, not the other way around. But I digress.

In the States, perhaps because we take part of our national identity from the wild and untamed image of the land from the Old West days, and perhaps also because of the Native American view of them, we revere our wolves for the most part. They feature prominently in art, movies, shows, etc in a mostly positive light, as opposed to wolves in Europe which have for the most part been driven out of the majority of countries. In European lore, wolves almost always feature as scary, terrifying monsters, creatures that need to be killed or forces of destruction. There's very little love or fondness for wolves in most European cultures.

Now, of course I am talking in broad generalizations but we almost always are when we're talking about national and cultural trends. But why are wolves, basically the same creatures on either side of the ocean, viewed so differently in North America versus Europe?

[Xarkan]

Now, of course I am talking in broad generalizations but we almost always are when we're talking about national and cultural trends. But why are wolves, basically the same creatures on either side of the ocean, viewed so differently in North America versus Europe?

We prohibit hunting them and such.

[Milchshake]

But why are wolves, basically the same creatures on either side of the ocean, viewed so differently in North America versus Europe?

America basically inherited and still shares most of the European attitudes about wolves. Areas in America that have wolf populations are highly divided on what to do with them. Thats why its called Wolf Wars. Hunting of wolves was legal in Spain, Portugal until recently. Plus there's hunts in upper Scandinavia. Idaho and Montana mostly want to eradicate their packs. The last public hearing for DNR's new Wolf Plan in Washington nearly broke out into a fist fight.

The first time I ever saw a wolf in the wild was in Italy of all places. After that I saw a few up in Canada. Just a few weeks ago I heard some howling while on a hunting trip in the North Cascades. It was pretty eerie to hear that, especially since it was a new moon and nearly pitch black.

[Noomz]

I live in Northern California, and one of the news items that caught my eye today was the confirmed presence of two gray wolves in nearby Lassen County. Here in the States, over the last two decades or so, we've been slowly re-introducing wolves into the wild since they were almost driven out of the States by ranchers and hunters who didn't like the competition. When I was a kid, my family had a wolf-breed as a pet. Her mom was a full-blooded, red wolf that was found in the wild as a pup and raised in captivity, and a dad who was a half-blooded red wolf. So, when you looked at her, there was no mistaking that she was basically a wolf with a little dog in her, not the other way around. But I digress.

In the States, perhaps because we take part of our national identity from the wild and untamed image of the land from the Old West days, and perhaps also because of the Native American view of them, we revere our wolves for the most part. They feature prominently in art, movies, shows, etc in a mostly positive light, as opposed to wolves in Europe which have for the most part been driven out of the majority of countries. In European lore, wolves almost always feature as scary, terrifying monsters, creatures that need to be killed or forces of destruction. There's very little love or fondness for wolves in most European cultures.

Now, of course I am talking in broad generalizations but we almost always are when we're talking about national and cultural trends. But why are wolves, basically the same creatures on either side of the ocean, viewed so differently in North America versus Europe?

In Sweden, hunting is strictly regulated. Our wolves were all but extinct due to hunting in the earlier centuries. Now they're fairly common and have been known to wander from the North and mid to the east coast and far south.

Yes CHristianity made a villain out of the wolf.

[Wythel]

France : the law allows to kill something like 35 wolves per year, all over the country. And we make sure it is done

[Manthis]

Wolf hunting in Finland is very restricted. Last year was the first time in 8 years that they granted hunting permits for wolves, in order to keep the population in check. Prior to that, wolves were only being hunted if they were causing damage.

[jimboa24]

The first time I ever saw a wolf in the wild was in Italy of all places. After that I saw a few up in Canada. Just a few weeks ago I heard some howling while on a hunting trip in the North Cascades. It was pretty eerie to hear that, especially since it was a new moon and nearly pitch black.

Our "dog" howled all the time when I was in high school. The neighbors often commented that they liked hearing wolf howling in the distance, but when it's right outside it can get pretty annoying. She was loud. That being said, it was still cool...sometimes.

[Independent voter]

Yellow Stone National Park has let wolves back into the park. It drives ranchers in the area crazy, but scientist say that the wolves kill very few livestock.

It's amazingly cool to watch a pack of wolves take down and kill buffalo.

[starlord]

people assume wolves will go on murderous rampages the instant they catch wind of livestock, despite all scientific evidence to the contrary.

however, i have read too much jack london (who i think you can thank for a lot of wolf conservation efforts) to not have a certain respect for the wolf, or its cousin the coyote. cute puppies they ain't.

that said, wandering about in the woods i would be more concerned about being bit by a snake.

[Khaza-R]

Hardly something European or American.

Wolves are present in nearly every country in the Northern Henisphere. From the Middle East to Japan. Any country with agriculture they are seen as a nuisance and culled. Education is really the only difference in how they are managed or protected.

[jimboa24]

Hardly something European or American.

Wolves are present in nearly every country in the Northern Henisphere. From the Middle East to Japan. Any country with agriculture they are seen as a nuisance and culled. Education is really the only difference in how they are managed or protected.

They're present all over the world, but in Europe especially they are painted as an evil, destructive force and often appear in fairytales, stories and folklore as malevolent and destructive beasts. In American folklore and stories, they're more of a mix of the old European views and the newer, American views of them as noble, intelligent creatures to be admired.

They're not exactly iconic in Japanese or Chinese folklore or stories, ditto for Middle Eastern.

[Danuel]

All you need to do is come to Poland. We have wolves, buffaloes and trump-like ppl ruled our country.

[starlord]

They're present all over the world, but in Europe especially they are painted as an evil, destructive force and often appear in fairytales, stories and folklore as malevolent and destructive beasts. In American folklore and stories, they're more of a mix of the old European views and the newer, American views of them as noble, intelligent creatures to be admired.

They're not exactly iconic in Japanese or Chinese folklore or stories, ditto for Middle Eastern.

actually in japanese folklore they are/were revered as mountain gods ("okami"), that killed the boar and deer who ate peoples crops, and protected travelers.

their extinction could be attributed to the importation of western ideals at the time...

[Deleted]

Yellow Stone National Park has let wolves back into the park. It drives ranchers in the area crazy, but scientist say that the wolves kill very few livestock.

It's amazingly cool to watch a pack of wolves take down and kill buffalo.

In Sweden the wolves are known for being able to kill 20-35 sheep a night if they get a chance. They can even swim to get into the closure.
In parts where we have alot of wolves they are hated because of the damage they do but in parts they are uncommon they are seen as forrest dogs happily running around brining joy and sunshine.

Wolves have no problem killing grown cows and has done so several times here.
Biggest problem is they don't kill just what they need but kill as many animals as they can in the short time they have and if its in a closure you can guess the results.

[Dezerte]

Well, the wolf is the provincial animal where I live. People who dislike wolves tend to do so because they raise livestock or are hunters, but the wolf is otherwise seen in a positive light.

[starlord]

In Sweden the wolves are known for being able to kill 20-35 sheep a night if they get a chance. They can even swim to get into the closure.
In parts where we have alot of wolves they are hated because of the damage they do but in parts they are uncommon they are seen as forrest dogs happily running around brining joy and sunshine.

Wolves have no problem killing grown cows and has done so several times here.
Biggest problem is they don't kill just what they need but kill as many animals as they can in the short time they have and if its in a closure you can guess the results.

that probably has more to do with the cows going wild and attacking the wolves since they are penned in close quarters like that.
in the US most cows are "free range" and wolves will only take very few.

[Morgaith]

that probably has more to do with the cows going wild and attacking the wolves since they are penned in close quarters like that.
in the US most cows are "free range" and wolves will only take very few.

not at all, as they do the same with sheep who don't exactly fight back.

[starlord]

not at all, as they do the same with sheep who don't exactly fight back.

not true at all, but if they have nowhere to run then they will of course be vulnerable. mass killing isnt normal wolf behavior, and it sounds more a product of keeping large amounts of animals in confined spaces. changing that could help with the loss of livestock.

[Shadow Fox]

Wolves are becoming an issue here... (Again)

Sometime in the 70's or 80 the State opened hunting to remove them from the area because of livestock damage. It got out of control.

In the late 90's and early 2000's, they reintroduced wolves: But the wrong breed. So now, this part of the Rocky Mountain range, we have the MASSIVE and VICIOUS as hell, who are also in very large packs. They are not native to this part of North America. In that time, they are now all over the Pacific northwest, northern midwest, and southern Canada.

We went from Northern Rocky Mountain wolf (Canis lupus irremotus) to Grey Wolves (Canis lupus) (80-105 pound wolves at 5+ Feet long, with records at 120 pounds and largest recorded ever recorded at 176 pounds)

They are even pushing Deer, Elk, Moose, Cougars, and even BEARS, etc etc into several towns. While it is against the law to hunt them, exceptions are made if they are on your property and in the event of preying, or attacking anything on your property you can shoot them. (Law also requires to contact Wildlife Civil or Federal services, or Native American authorities.)

[Deleted]

In Austria this year a few wolves returned after more than 100 years absence, this time there is a strict law that prohibits hunting wolves.
I'm always fascinated by documentaries about US-American and Canadian national parks with all these wolves (just today in the morning I watched a documentary about the Rocky Mountains), I love wolves.