Would the game be better without the ability to log DPS/HPS?

[Lumineus]

without the ability to log DPS/HPS

An interesting proposition, but in order for something like that to be successful you would have to eliminate berserk timers. And in so doing, you would eliminate the DPS role. Mythic raids would consist of two tanks and eighteen Discipline Priests.

[anveena]

No thanks. I like posting the damage done and healing done after every pull in lfr.

[Deleted]

No thanks. I really like being able to see who performs and who doesn't in a raid and to be able to see when I need to do better or change something up etc.

[BannedForViews]

Its almost like they want to play the game not the dick waving dps contest. If the boss dies the fight was done right and later can be improved on so it can be done faster.

Boss fights should be more about the execution and not dps checks.

And yet boss fights are all very much about dps checks....

Even if you didn't log dps, and even if bosses didn't have enrage mechanics, or "clutter" on the screen that makes killing the boss quickly more important (think the end of spider bird, xavius, cenarius, eye, ursoc...so like every boss) Healers WILL run out of mana. not only would you have to remove enrage timers, and remove these mechanics that can wipe a raid, but you'd have to remove healer mana.

[Tradu]

Its almost like they want to play the game not the dick waving dps contest. If the boss dies the fight was done right and later can be improved on so it can be done faster.

Boss fights should be more about the execution and not dps checks.

They are already way too focused on mechanics rather than throughput. Enrages matter on like 1-2 bosses per expansion nowadays.

[druenos]

git gud or get rekt.
there's always hello kitty online.

Lol you say this as if you are some kind of tough guy. You are playing Wow, which for the vast majority of people is a game played by nerds.

[Slicer299]

Big, massive, huge, freaking no. People focusing on something for the wrong reasons isn't a valid reason to take away a helpful tool. There are addons they can allow a raider leader to see who is using damage meters, and can require their raiders to disable them if they are a distraction. My guild back did just that during heroic ICC progression back in the day.

But it is an immensely helpful tool that allows people to become better players. They can look at the numbers compared between themselves and a better performing player, and make adjustments based on those numbers to improve their own game play. Of course that means looking at logs, and not meters to get the complete and accurate picture, but meters still help provide an on the fly tool for people who want to perform at the best possible level fight to fight.

[Deleted]

We've all died just trying to finish our cast once or twice in our WoW "career" just trying to push out that extra DPS/HpS. Of course some more than others but we generally all do it for the same reason. Trying to do the best numbers, trying to be the best on the chart.

But what if there was no Warcraft logs? No Skada or recount...No way of being able to see your HPS and DPS?...The biggest downside is you can say people won't be able to find the ones that are under performing or if you yourself is underperforming but the pros outweigh the cons if you ask me. Now i'm not campaigning for them to remove this at all i'm just saying what it was never there.

Would people die less? Would people not care about whats "the FOTM class"? I personally think people would just play what spec/class they enjoy without having to worry about being at the top and people would actually die less because the only thing being seen is your ability to follow the fight instead of "topping the charts"

Thoughts?

Ofc people would die less. No numbers mean you have nothing to compete, or rather you can just run till a mehanic is over without doing 1 point of damage. On mythic there would be alot of "we where all alive but the boss enraged. how?" I agree with the play the spec and class you enjoy. I enjoy my prot/fury. I adapt to my guilds needs but in a guild that has 4/7 mythic only i would never switch to Arms. You want me DPS ill DPS in something i enjoy.

People who are butt hurt for dps meters usually reroll to a class thats higher on the list saying "my class doesn't scale, it's underpowered, it's horrible" are usually the people logging at 65% of their bracket.

[Deleted]

It is only good for terrible players to hide their performance. How you can track players performance in a raid guild ? Makes no sense without DPS/HPS meter, also warcraftlogs is really helpful in progress.

[Deleted]

But what if the the DPS/HPS logs were only private and for the group/raid leader ?

[barrsftw]

I think back to vanilla when they didn't exist and the raid environments seemed WAY better. Your worth was based on whether or not you were part of the group that killed X boss, and not how much DPS you do. It's all part of the natural evolution of a game though; games seem better in general when there is more unknown IMO.

- - - Updated - - -

An interesting proposition, but in order for something like that to be successful you would have to eliminate berserk timers. And in so doing, you would eliminate the DPS role. Mythic raids would consist of two tanks and eighteen Discipline Priests.

It worked fine in vanilla.

- - - Updated - - -

If you take out the numbers from the equation, you leave me, the raid leader, with no evidence of what her actual performance is, because she could be spending the entire fight not cating a single heal but just dodging around the combat arena.

Before damage meters you would try someone out by doing 5 man content with other competent players. If you were unable to finish it or finish it in a timely manner you knew the player was not up to par and they wouldn't raid with you. You didn't just invite random people or else you're right, you would have no idea if they were good or not.

[nyjl]

I think back to vanilla when they didn't exist and the raid environments seemed WAY better. You're worth was based on whether or not you were part of the group that killed X boss, and not how much DPS you do.

Translation: "i could suck ass and get carried, now i can't"

- - - Updated - - -

Before damage meters you would try someone out by doing 5 man content with other competent players. If you were unable to finish it or finish it in a timely manner you knew the player was not up to par and they wouldn't raid with you.

How would you know who is "competent" in the first place?

[nekobaka]

For entry raid content in Classic a players worth and defined endgame role was dictated by their class. I was getting whispers on my warlock to join MC runs shortly after hitting 60 despite being in leveling greens and blues. People failing mechanics still got kicked. A lot of the class knowledge in Classic was still not well shared leaving many non-theory crafters well behind in their ability to perform in later content due to that knowledge gap. The information sharing from the community has gone a long way to allowing players of all types to grain knowledge and better themselves than otherwise would have and be left on the bench. It is sad to see those who want to limit information sharing all due to their ego issues.

[ThunderTaco]

We've all died just trying to finish our cast once or twice in our WoW "career" just trying to push out that extra DPS/HpS. Of course some more than others but we generally all do it for the same reason. Trying to do the best numbers, trying to be the best on the chart.

But what if there was no Warcraft logs? No Skada or recount...No way of being able to see your HPS and DPS?...The biggest downside is you can say people won't be able to find the ones that are under performing or if you yourself is underperforming but the pros outweigh the cons if you ask me. Now i'm not campaigning for them to remove this at all i'm just saying what it was never there.

Would people die less? Would people not care about whats "the FOTM class"? I personally think people would just play what spec/class they enjoy without having to worry about being at the top and people would actually die less because the only thing being seen is your ability to follow the fight instead of "topping the charts"

Thoughts?

That would be like saying "We could remove the countries engaged in war from the map, so now there is peace everywhere on the map !". Hiding the problem doesn't fix it. But let's say we hide it.

For starters if you remove only the DPS/HPS charts you can still see the total Damage/Healing done which is more important than the pure DPS, so you'll want to remove the Damage done charts, but then how will you understand why the add isn't dying or who is aoeing when we need to focus something ? Well you can't, so you can't efficiently fix the problem, you don't have the data.

So what would happen in a pug raid ? The raid leader would have to make changes but he has no data, so he will replace players that he doesn't like (not his friends, competing on him on loots, not the FOTM classes, players that can't link e-peen achievements, etc etc) just like it happened in Vanilla.

In a guild group ? Well you can't target playes that need advice / help so they aren't likely to get help because they don't have the tools to understand they are doing something wrong.

The only people that would really benefit from this, are players doing a mediocre performance, not trying to improve and doing pug raids.

[Deztru]

Atleast for some time I bet, but personally I would go crazy from the insecurity of whether or not I'm doing good. I know how I play, I can use the DPS meter to back it up.

[Deleted]

Yes it was one of the things that made me enjoy FFXIV so much.

ACT has been around since everquest.

[Blackmist]

Guild Wars 2 had no meters. It just meant I had no idea how well I was doing. There was no number on enemy health bars. No nothing to indicate if what you're doing is better or worse than what you were doing previously. Was that weapon an upgrade or a downgrade?

I hated it.

The competition between DPSers is the only thing that keeps me entertained. Saving cooldowns for certain points, keeping that Sidewinders charge for the adds coming in a few seconds, optimising and getting better. What else is there? Without the meters it's like one of those modern sports days where everyone gets a prize. No, motherfucker. Not everyone gets to be a winner.

[Orwell7]

Player would find a way; for example, they will gauge the time to kill a 1million HP player, and there you go: DPS without actual meters. And then, we would have a completely false assumption of which class is the best, like we always do.

Also, focusing more on mechanics and less on dps/hps? You are looking for a rhythm/skill based game, and it is totally fine, but WoW is a combination of both. I like the preparation concept of the game, be it consumables or getting a few pieces of extraordinary gear.

[Mizix]

That is true and go's back to my point that blizzard is to lax on there rules.

They could do a better job at perma banning repeated offenders but what you are arguing here for is a behavior police. I don't want Blizzard to start making and enforcing rules for everything that offends you or anyone else - except for common sense rules like no racism, no hate speech, etc. - because if they go down that road we will soon end up with a game where nothing can be said and done because "safe space" issues. I'd rather be free to ignore an asshole than play a game where I can't do or say anything because it will probably offend "someone".

As to whether the game would be better off without DPS/HPS meters or not, I wouldn't know. There are pros and cons for both stances, surely though I wouldn't want to get rid of them just because you are not mature enough to ignore an asshole in a game that's not designed for you and your taste alone.

[Holofernes]

i think dps meter posting is something only kiddys and very simple minds do. in the last 3 addons i have never seen anybody in the raid bragging about meters, but it happens occasionally on some random dungeons, where u get "that guy" that pulls every bomb cd on trash and than links his 2.4 million bomb dps and is very proud of himself. The general reaction to it is " wow u are really very special, like your mom always said".

I didnt votekick this special hunter because of his 60 k dps in a random hc at 850 gear, but because his fucking pet taunted the boss on cooldown, and after asking him to put taunt off several times, no response -> initiate votekick. Probably it is this hunter , or a similar person that made this thread.

Logs are mostly used to see whats going wrong, for improving tacticsand how to improve yourself and to compare your own performance to other people playing the same spec.