Odyn and Guarm Stealth Nerfs

[Deleted]

You're right, you shouldn't have to kick them. That also doesn't mean you get to point out other guild's rules and ridicule them for something that for 95% of raiding guilds is common place. Talking is a basic requirement because voice is SO much faster than typing. Making mistakes is human nature, repeating the same mistakes is just awful for the rest of your raid.

Common sense rules, not protecting one person's feelings when the rest of the raid is getting annoyed with them. Normal/HC mode mechanics are extremely simple, doing them wrong constantly should not be simply forgiven, it's just silly.

Its NORMAL MODE, it should not even need communication in the first place.
Its the old FLEX which was created for LFR people trying a little more difficult content with a set group for the first time.

What in gods name are you people talking about.
I am not talking about Mythic raiding here.

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Nobody expects smooth smalltalk, but how can't you be so unconfortable that you can't call out important stuff with JUST ONE OR TWO WORDS?
How can be somebody too unconfortable to say 'I have...' 'Casting....' etc a few times per evening?

Some people are really shy, takes years to get to a stage where they feel comfortable with other people.
Some people play in their parents living room and find it rude to talk to people online while they are there.
Some people play in their bed room while their partner is sleeping.

I dunno, shit happens.

Normal and to an extent heroic "raiders" should not even need mics as long as they listen.

[Soisoisoi]

Its NORMAL MODE, it should not even need communication in the first place.
Its the old FLEX which was created for LFR people trying a little more difficult content with a set group for the first time.

What in gods name are you people talking about.
I am not talking about Mythic raiding here.

Difficulty has nothing to do with how much instant communication helps. You can do Mythic without voice too, that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.

The point is, it makes everything run much faster, much smoother. If that one person who doesn't talk in a raid sees something that would otherwise be called out, and doesn't, and you wipe... Well, you could have prevented that by simply talking. That's why the vast majority of raiders use voice comms.

[Deleted]

Difficulty has nothing to do with how much instant communication helps. You can do Mythic without voice too, that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.

The point is, it makes everything run much faster, much smoother. If that one person who doesn't talk in a raid sees something that would otherwise be called out, and doesn't, and you wipe... Well, you could have prevented that by simply talking. That's why the vast majority of raiders use voice comms.

Please show me any proof that a "vast majority" uses voice comms or stop pulling numbers out of your behind.

Also I never said it was better not to use it, I just said some people don't and that it really doesn't matter in Normal mode "raiding" which is what we were talking about.

Not sure where you are trying to go with this discussion either, but hey whatever floats your boat.

[Soisoisoi]

Please show me any proof that a "vast majority" uses voice comms or stop pulling numbers out of your behind.

Also I never said it was better not to use it, I just said some people don't and that it really doesn't matter in Normal mode "raiding" which is what we were talking about.

Not sure where you are trying to go with this discussion either, but hey whatever floats your boat.

Show me proof that most don't? Literally every guild I've been in since Vanilla, every PuG, and hell even Trade Chat pugs these days require it. I don't know of anyone who doesn't use it - and hell, Blizzard have their own that actually works now. There's no reason not to, and every reason to use it.

[Deleted]

Show me proof that most don't? Literally every guild I've been in since Vanilla, every PuG, and hell even Trade Chat pugs these days require it. I don't know of anyone who doesn't use it - and hell, Blizzard have their own that actually works now. There's no reason not to, and every reason to use it.

You are making a claim, I ask you to proof your claim and your response is "show me it isn't true"?
Sorry thats not how it works.

I never made a claim that no one uses it, I said a few people in my guild don't and there are people that feel that way.

Again, I don't understand what you are trying to achieve with this?

[Deleted]

People make mistakes, its human nature. Not going to kick anyone because of it.
Some people don't feel comfortable speaking which I can understand. Not going to kick anyone because of it.

Im not in a top 50 world guild, I don't need to act like a douche on the internet to other people in my guild because they aren't flawless.

While it's understandable, guilds aren't charities and other players aren't there to carry you through content. If you can't do what's needed for team work and therefore progression to happen, you should not be raiding mythic or heroic.

[Deleted]

This. From all the Guarm normal/heroic tests we observed, Berserk was 4 minutes. Only now on live they decided to put it at 5 minutes, for god knows what reason.

for god knows what reason?

do u people not think that a Heroic boss should be killable by heroic guilds?

With a 4 minute berserk timer there is no 860-870 guild that can kill Guarm, My guild is 882 ilvl killed it in 3min55 and got the 5th fastest kill at the time.

Stop only thinking about mythic guilds

[Deleted]

While it's understandable, guilds aren't charities and other players aren't there to carry you through content. If you can't do what's needed for team work and therefore progression to happen, you should not be raiding mythic or heroic.

The issue is, we were able to do what was needed.
We cleared Normal EN in an evening.
Then we went into Heroic and it took us 3 nights in total with a full night on Xavius.

We were able to raid with baby sitting a few people.

Now we get into NORMAL ToV and we can't even get past boss number 2 "Guarm".

This has nothing to do with teamwork or my guild or whatever else.
This has to do with the tuning of the raid going from 1 extreme to the other extreme.

[Tehterokkar]

for god knows what reason?

do u people not think that a Heroic boss should be killable by heroic guilds?

With a 4 minute berserk timer there is no 860-870 guild that can kill Guarm, My guild is 882 ilvl killed it in 3min55 and got the 5th fastest kill at the time.

Stop only thinking about mythic guilds

You know they could have just lowered his health, but okay.

[Finbezz]

Casualbaddie? And you think you'll get a worthwhile discussion starting like that?

Anyway, we have 2/3 people in the raid that don't feel very comfortable talking, it happens.
Don't see why we should be kicking them if they can do the raid easily enough and are fun to hang around with in game when they can type.

You can't not expect ridicule with the kind of shit you spew. You're trying to shittalk a guild that is very obviously on the cutting edge for fucking requiring people to talk? Full Stop. That's fucking moronic.

[Deleted]

You can't not expect ridicule with the kind of shit you spew.

This might be the reason most people have such a bad opinion on Mythic raiders.
I never understood this till today.

[Dracodraco]

You know they could have just lowered his health, but okay.

In fairness, lowering his health is a bigger nerf than extending the enrage (assuming the end result would be the same - boss dying exactly on enrage). Longer encounters are harder purely because they give you more time to fuck up. Adding another minute to DogeBoss^3 adds another trample, and (obviously) extends people having to not fuck up for another minute.

[pmkaboo]

People make mistakes, its human nature. Not going to kick anyone because of it.
Some people don't feel comfortable speaking which I can understand. Not going to kick anyone because of it.

Im not in a top 50 world guild, I don't need to act like a douche on the internet to other people in my guild because they aren't flawless.

i feel kinda sad about just how clueless you are.

[Wilderness]

This thread is about the nerfs, and not who is or isn't bad, does or doesn't require things for recruitment, or any other topics. Keep on the subject.

[Deleted]

Seems like some fair changes - we spent a few hours on Odyn last night - we're just a 7/7 HC guild built from mythic raiders who ended up with jobs, but the natrual progression should've been to move to Heroic Odyn. The fight felt extremely punishing, especially for small raid sizes. I've not felt a fight was so tightly tuned since Mu'ru.

Looking at WC Logs shows it pretty clearly - no kils for guilds under 870 ilevel, which is the ilevel of the drops. Shouldn't be rocket surgery to work out something's up there (in b4 "all guilds below ilevel 870 are baddies"). The lowest ilevel kills were mythic split raids.

[Kazuchika]

People make mistakes, its human nature. Not going to kick anyone because of it.
Some people don't feel comfortable speaking which I can understand. Not going to kick anyone because of it.

Im not in a top 50 world guild, I don't need to act like a douche on the internet to other people in my guild because they aren't flawless.

No you just need to act like a douche on the internet to other people because your guild has poor players in apparently

[Dangg]

Some people are really shy, takes years to get to a stage where they feel comfortable with other people.
Some people play in their parents living room and find it rude to talk to people online while they are there.
Some people play in their bed room while their partner is sleeping.

I dunno, shit happens.

Normal and to an extent heroic "raiders" should not even need mics as long as they listen.

If I have the choice to play with someone who can use their mic when it's beneficial - like the vast majority of people who play multi player video game on their PC - or some special snowflake who can't I choose the former.

[Deleted]

No you just need to act like a douche on the internet to other people because your guild has poor players in apparently

Where have a acted like a douche? I am being attacked from all sides by top 100 mythic raiders that don't want their precious Normal mode to be touched (that they never use).

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If I have the choice to play with someone who can use their mic when it's beneficial - like the vast majority of people who play multi player video game on their PC - or some special snowflake who can't I choose the former.

Again, please show me proof that the vast majority of WoW players use their mic.
Because I can tell you now they don't, the vast majority doesn't even raid or PvP and you don't need a mic for Pet battles.

But again, what are you trying to prove here?

[KaPe]

So, in other words, Guarm is not changed at all and Odyn is slightly nerfed. It was either this or buffing the drops by at least 5 levels - which would still make it difficult for non mythic guilds who wouldn't be able to easily reach 870+ "needed" for Odyn.

I wonder if this was result of some kneejerk buffs after Mythic Xavius or did they really plan for such a huge difficulty jump from Emerald Nightmare. And what that means for Nighthold. Granted, that place drops vastly superior loot and people are pretty much guaranteed to have 5% trait by then, but still...

[Marrilaife]

I did 2 hc yesterday and while I enjoyed learning the fights I see 3 problems:

1. The loot is extremely unrewarding, didn't they up the loot in BRF because it was unrewarding in comparison to Highmaul? Well here we go again +5 ilvl from previous raid.

2. We're talking hc this week, not mythic, the general philosophy "1 person's fuckup wipes the raid" is fine in mythic but in hc? I remember raiding with casual no-mythic guild in hfc and I know they wouldn't bench people for playing sub optimal specs, lagging half the time and such. Tight performance checks is not something that goes well with non-mythic guilds.

3. Is this thing even scaling well for raid sizes under 20 people?