Should a blood test at birth be standard procedure to confirm who is the father?

[Mehrunes]

And those that want to know should be able to pay for the test, while those who do not care should not have to pay for it

What about those who'd care but mistakenly trust their partner?

[Jotaux]

Not only is this not true in the majority of places but even then, most of the "paying and effort" goes to the person actually raising the child for 18 years, partial monetary compensation is getting off light.

I think you must be confused. I don't think there is any place where they will make a woman pay for the child her spouse conceived with another woman through infidelity.

[Total Crica]

What about those who'd care but mistakenly trust their partner?

if they feel its a mistake to trust them, they can ask for the test

[Pantelija]

In other words, your idea doesn't always result in determining who is the father, but can help in determining who is not the father.

Thats the entire idea behind paternity test? Why should a man raise other guys child while being deceived its his?

[Mehrunes]

It was more of an attempt to make the (mostly) male posters see the issue from another side, when men are accused and blamed due to the actions of other men. A strained relationship between new parents isn't that uncommon,sadly, and maybe men cheating with a new baby in the house is more common than some woman tricking someone to thinking he's the father.

Of couse, cheating can end up being deadly, when the wives cheated on kill the children;

http://latest.com/2015/09/mom-killed...wall-in-blood/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ld-police-say/
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../10/ng.01.html
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/20...e-hubby-cheats

Despite these cases, I don't actually want men to be constantly watched, because not all men cheat, just as not all women deceive poor men into false fatherhood.

This isn't exactly equivalent. In the subject of the topic a cheating woman is committing paternity fraud. In your examples the guy cheating in commits no such thing and the one committing wrongdoing that should (and in this case is) criminalized is also the woman. And whether men cheat more or not is inconsequential, their cheating does not result in a lifelong fraud that fucks them over financially, emotionally (should they eventually find out), legally (if they find out after some years they are still legally bound to the child of another man anyway) and may fuck them over in terms of actually procreating and continuing their genes, which to some people is important because instinct and what not (if they don't find out and settle for that one child they think is theirs). Again, cheating isn't the issue, it's only the cause of the issue.

(But wouldn't @Xarim agree that's a great idea, to keep men watched, because he's all "for the children!" and here we have 7 dead children, which should be far more severe than men raising children that aren't theirs?)

Why would I care about what Xarim wants? It is more severe though and that's why murder is a crime, while paternity fraud is not (despite other types of fraud, even less severe ones, being criminalized as well).

[Total Crica]

Thats the entire idea behind paternity test? Why should a man raise other guys child while being deceived its his?

any man who wants to know should not be denied this test, i agree, but no, it should not be mandatory, only performed if they want to know or if the courts need to know

[Deleted]

I've never said it's perfectly fine to lie to Tim for 10 years. I don't exactly go "you go girl!" when there are threads (on other forums, very obviously) going "I'm pregnant and don't know who the father is". What I would like, is for Tim to have the chance to find of whether or not he's the real father, and if he isn't, face no consequences should he walk away. That should be Tim's choice, and Tim's alone.

Except, Tim was the one who took care of a child for 10 years, this wasnt Bob i was talking about.

Should new fathers (biological ones!) be monitored so they don't cheat because let's face it, having a baby sucks all life and joy away which leads him to sleep with other women, risking the family breaking up, or if they do stay together, the death of trust? Compulsory paternity tests are like saying "we don't trust you", like having fathers watched in cheat-prevention would do*

If you think there is a high chance that a woman is going to screw you over, I feel sorry for you, honestly.

What kind of nonsense is this?? This is about males wanting to be sure that it is their offspring without having to spring through hoops.

Regarding the last sentence, GoblinP wrote "'fathers'" and I was inquiring into whether he meant a biological father who ran away and ceased all contact when the child was 5 or whatever, or a man who was believed to be the father, but wasn't.

Then ask it like this!?

Absolutely wrong! A man who doesn't want to have children gains a lot more acceptance than a woman saying the same thing. You see, society wants children, they are encouraged. Merely 50 years ago, no one would ask you why you didn't have children (women, that is). As a woman, I'm expected to love children, to want children, to desire them, that life finally gains purpose when they pop out. To love not only mine, but other people's children. That a natural birth is wonderful and beautiful and the pain absolutely worth it, even the anal ruptures, that breastfeeding is so amazing and giving formulae is bascially child abuse. That I should be home, at least 1 year, and that spending 6 hours playing with the baby is so much better than being at work. That when it cries you don't want to become deaf but instead try to understand the little one ^^ Patience, love, understanding, selfsacrifice. Wanting to sleep 8 hours in a go, or to clean the house, or to shower - What kind of monster am I?! Poopy diapers, pee on your hand, so cute <3

The problem here is that as a male i have no choice other then not having sex if i do not want to become a parent, if i would say that this should go for a woman to that means that im sexist. What im getting at is, the ones you call "deadbeat dads" are the same sort of people that would have gotten an abortion if they could, but they cant. Society is coming down a lot harder on males that do not want to become parents to the point that we put them in jail for not "owning up" to "their" responsibilities.

There have been interviews with women choosing a childless life and they still have to say "oh, but I do like children, just don't want them". If you're a woman and you don't want children in today's society (Norway), you're anomaly, a selfish shit, unfeminine and that there is something wrong with you. If you divorce the man and he has custody, you're a freak. You even have to be 25 before you can choose sterilisation. What I'm getting at, there is no applause if you as a woman choose to have children despite not wanting them, people have decided that 95 % of all women want children and you're an outcast if you opt out. I have a child, and I loathe my new life. Its presence makes me depressed but I can't admit that, I'm a failure for thinking so. I'm supposed to be so happy ^^ I, as a married woman, now with a child, life is complete <3 No, not before grandchildren come^^

*Yes, it's a shitty example. Just try to understand where I'm coming from

I do get that people look weird at people who do not want children as it is our primary directive (biologically speaking), but males face these same problems. I think the big difference is that the males have pretty much no say in it, and to top it off, have no idea if the child is theirs. Of course this would not really be needed with most pregnancies, but you can't deny that it is not needed at all. This isn't unheard off. Just like with a screening on a genetic defect is not needed most off the time, we still do screen for genetic defects at birth to save the ones who do have it the trouble of having to find it out at a later date.

And yes, your example is really shitty.

[Mehrunes]

that is ok with me, perfect compromise, wise person, thanks!

Or it could have an opt out. Avoids the issues with it that appear from it being voluntary, while allowing a stark majority of couples to say no and not incur any cost.

[Deleted]

if he is, he can ask for the test, that simple

Im not asking if he is, im asking if he should be. I do not think this is something we would want, growing unneeded suspicion in a relationship.

[Mehrunes]

not in my society, both parents are required by law to provide for their children - if the mother leaves the child with the father, she must pay child support mandated by courts, if the father leaves the child with the mother, he must pay child support mandated by the courts - im not sure, but i think adopted parents can ask for the real parents to pay child support by law as well, but only if the real parents are allowed visitation rights, most adopted parents dont do that, tho, i think - both me and my child's father gave up parental rights to my parents and did not have to pay child support after that - but as long as the child is a ward of the state in my society, BOTH parents are required to pay child support by law

Not what was talked about there. The topic is the child of the guy he has with another woman. The guy's partner has absolutely no obligation towards that child in that case, even if they all live together in some fucked up take on menage a trois. Versus a situation with switched genders when they actually raise it together, where the guy doesn't know it's not his. With the difference of it being that's it literally impossible to falsely convince the guy's partner the child is hers in situation A.

Absolutely wrong! A man who doesn't want to have children gains a lot more acceptance than a woman saying the same thing. You see, society wants children, they are encouraged. Merely 50 years ago, no one would ask you why you didn't have children (women, that is). As a woman, I'm expected to love children, to want children, to desire them, that life finally gains purpose when they pop out. To love not only mine, but other people's children. That a natural birth is wonderful and beautiful and the pain absolutely worth it, even the anal ruptures, that breastfeeding is so amazing and giving formulae is bascially child abuse. That I should be home, at least 1 year, and that spending 6 hours playing with the baby is so much better than being at work. That when it cries you don't want to become deaf but instead try to understand the little one ^^ Patience, love, understanding, selfsacrifice. Wanting to sleep 8 hours in a go, or to clean the house, or to shower - What kind of monster am I?! Poopy diapers, pee on your hand, so cute <3

There have been interviews with women choosing a childless life and they still have to say "oh, but I do like children, just don't want them". If you're a woman and you don't want children in today's society (Norway), you're anomaly, a selfish shit, unfeminine and that there is something wrong with you. If you divorce the man and he has custody, you're a freak. You even have to be 25 before you can choose sterilisation. What I'm getting at, there is no applause if you as a woman choose to have children despite not wanting them, people have decided that 95 % of all women want children and you're an outcast if you opt out. I have a child, and I loathe my new life. Its presence makes me depressed but I can't admit that, I'm a failure for thinking so. I'm supposed to be so happy ^^ I, as a married woman, now with a child, life is complete <3 No, not before grandchildren come^^

*Yes, it's a shitty example. Just try to understand where I'm coming from

And yet in the past it's been childless men who have been taxed because of it in various places.

[Total Crica]

Not what was talked about there. The topic is the child of the guy he has with another woman. Versus a situation with switched genders when they actually raise it together (with the bonus difference of it being impossible to falsely convince the guy's partner the child is hers in situation A).

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And yet in the past it's been childless men who have been taxed because of it in various places.

If a man wants to know, he can take the test, not sure how anything you said changes this

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Im not asking if he is, im asking if he should be. I do not think this is something we would want, growing unneeded suspicion in a relationship.

should be what? he should be free to ask for the test and should not be denied the test if he asks for it, i agree

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Or it could have an opt out. Avoids the issues with it that appear from it being voluntary, while allowing a stark majority of couples to say no and not incur any cost.

that is fine with me as well, thanks!

[Mehrunes]

no he doesn't, he can ask for the test to be done if he wants to

But if he doesn't ask because he trusts his partner (who would create an instant shitstorm if asked) and is duped into raising a bastard, yes, he most certainly does.

[Total Crica]

But if he doesn't ask because he trusts his partner (who would create an instant shitstorm if asked) and is duped into raising a bastard, yes, he most certainly does.

if its the law that he can ask for and receive a test, she has no legal reason for a shitstorm, this changes nothing

that's like saying if a buyer doesn't requests to read the fine print that law states he can ask to do because he trusts the complany, because the company might starts a shitstorm and dupes the buyer into purchasing an item without ever reading the fine print?

sorry, but ask to read the fine print if you wish to do so, it's your right to ask to read it if you wish to read it! no one should be made to read it, however, if they do not wish to

[Mehrunes]

If a man wants to know, he can take the test, not sure how anything you said changes this

It points out that this part of your post was on different topic than what you replied to?

[Deleted]

If a man wants to know, he can take the test, not sure how anything you said changes this

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should be what? he should be free to ask for the test and should not be denied the test if he asks for it, i agree

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that is fine with me as well, thanks!

If males should be more suspicious of their partners by default, is this what you are saying? Why do they have to even ask for it? Like i said, checking for most genetic defects isn't really needed i would say 99.99% of the time, yet we still do it.

[Mehrunes]

if its the law that he can ask for and receive a test, she has no legal reason for a shitstorm, this changes nothing

In some areas it's the law the man can ask and receive, but the woman also can block it. The shitstorm isn't legal anyway. Women have an alergic reaction to the idea of paternity test being performed on their child even if they approve of it being a thing in general, vide this thread. So if a man doesn't ask because of it and because he trusts his partner, then what, it's OK he's victim to paternity fraud? Other forms of fraud are actually criminalized, despite the victim more often than not falling for it because they trusted the wrong person.

[Total Crica]

it's the law the man can ask and receive, but the woman also can block it.

then i agree, the woman should not be able to block it, but it should not be mandatory, only if the father wishes it or the courts need it

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If males should be more suspicious of their partners by default, is this what you are saying? Why do they have to even ask for it? Like i said, checking for most genetic defects isn't really needed i would say 99.99% of the time, yet we still do it.

oh i understand you now, thanks
i dont see it as suspicion, i see it as a preference
the man prefers to only raise a child he knows is his
the only way to know is to test
so he should be able to ask for the test and not be denied
some men dont have this preference and should not be forced to have the test done if they dont wish to

[medievalman1]

If males should be more suspicious of their partners by default, is this what you are saying? Why do they have to even ask for it? Like i said, checking for most genetic defects isn't really needed i would say 99.99% of the time, yet we still do it.

a) even without looking at the genetic makeup of the parents, the odds of a child having a genetic defect is significantly higher than 0.01%. Including the parents, who may be asymptomatic carriers of what may be passed on as a genetic defect, the issue becomes a very real possibility.

b) raising a child with a genetic defect often leads to a heavy burden of emotional/financial/<insert your own -al descriptor> on the parents.

c) there's a reason why a woman doesn't need to be suspicious if the child is theirs. If I need to explain this to you, any further discussion is pointless.

[Muzjhath]

What kind of nonsense is this?? This is about males wanting to be sure that it is their offspring without having to spring through hoops.

If you've got so little trust in women that you feel the system has to be changed to make sure it doesn't happen.
Don't have kids and don't date women, you obviously don't trust them enough not to cheat. That's the only advice I can give on your view.

[Toosdey]

Voted no, because I really don't think the majority of women who want kids are actively cheating on their significant other like that. In most cases, its wasted money. If your relation ship is in ta situation you think the kid might not be yours, then you need to take care of that, not the government.