The lack of fury changes

[Deleted]

Hey everyone. I'm not playing the PTR but I have read the notes and have not seen any fury changes? We were promised further improvments from this "8%" bandaid we got.

Fury is no longer in a terrible position but the gameplay is still very static, the Juggernaut problem is still there and the Rage of the Valarjar proc rate is still non existing. To make matters more dire the only legendary warriors get is the shoulders that increase number of Heroic Leap charges making it a clear synergy between Arms legs legendary (as far as PvE is concerned). They said clear choice talents will be integrated for all of specializations giving way for a new talent yet Inner Rage is still "an option." So is Massacre. Endless rage is less mandatory in PvP(I pressume?) but still a mandatory talent in PvE. Even though you could maybe argue War Machine in dugeons. Still no reason that rage generation is not integrated into the Fury baseline since it scales of haste and PvP is balanced on a seperate predifined table.

Are we being ignored because they think the 8% bandaid fixed all issues fury had?

[Deleted]

More likely - fury changes simply haven't been fully implemented on Blizzard's side yet. Half-implementing a spec is counter-productive.

[Eclipser]

They haven't implemented all the changes.
twitter.com/Celestalon/status/798811814309961730

[Deleted]

They haven't implemented all the changes.
twitter.com/Celestalon/status/798811814309961730

Oh I'm sorry. Didn't have that information. Thanks.
Was getting a little sad.

[Oneer]

In regards to managing expectations I think at the very least it's reasonably safe to assume that talents and mechanics will be addressed for QoL and baseline related issues, anything additional in regards to numerical buffs on abilities is up in the air at this point since they haven't been verbal since 7.1 on how they feel with current performance levels.

[Lorkin]

I think it's a round robin for all the classes. Since Fury warriors got "Hot-fixed" recently, they probably took more time to look at the other classes for the first PTR pass. They will hopefully get back to Fury warriors before the PTR is finished. I think some of these ideas have been floating around, half-baked for a while now. Just the Fury ones they decided to act on since Fury was lagging behind Arms for a while.

Besides, its in their official PTR notes:

Classes
Class updates for Patch 7.1.5 are underway, with many more to come.

Class Adjustments
Class and Honor Talent updates for PvP in Patch 7.1.5 are underway, with many more to come.

[Emaias]

To play the devils advocate is say Fury is now in a pretty good spot. Obviously there are some things that could change, mainly all of our Golden Dragon Traits for example. Honestly though we aren't bad anymore. While I do play casually, with a hardcore mindset I'm currently 870 ILevel with the Enrage Legendary, but in my weekly Heroic EN PUGS I'm usually top 3 damage throughout most encounters. Granted these are PUGS and they more then likely aren't the greatest, but the phrase as old as time "if you aren't the 1% it doesn't matter"

There are some definite QoL buffs/fixes but overall I'm pretty happy with Fury. They remind me of Cata Ret Paladins where they have insane burst and ride that damage until CDs come up. As long as you plan your CDs around the encounter (mainly OF cleave) you'll do just fine.

[Recom]

Yeah fury is okay in raids and pretty good in m+ but performance isn't the focus for 7.1.5. The focus is over (dare I say mandatory) talents and useless ones and we have a lot of those so I guess we should see changes on that front but I don't see a lot (if any) changes to our core abilities/artifact traits yet.

[Oneer]

To play the devils advocate is say Fury is now in a pretty good spot.

Interpreting current statistics on WCL across all difficulties I wouldn't exactly call middling bottom a "pretty good spot", the issue we have right now is one that's haunted every spec at least once at some point in WoW's history and that's the class devs considering a specs performance high enough from the very bottom to be classified as "Good Enough", i.e put up with it or re-roll, Elemental is a prime example of suffering from this balancing mentality for the last few years.

[Lorkin]

Hopefully PTR round two will yield some Fury changes. I'm hoping to see some of the following:

1) BASELINE Inner Rage
2) BASELINE Double Time
3) Baseline Shockwave
4) Add in some sort of CD reducer

I believe like 99.9% of the top 10% of Fury Warrior parsers are using Inner Rage. When mostly everyone is using it, it HAS to be time to baseline that sucker. Doubletime has been a favorite since WoD, so why that isn't baselined is beyond me. Prot Warriors's have 2 charges of Intercept without having to take talents for it.

All warriors would love to take Shockwave as a base ability, it just makes sense. And for #4, we have basically amazing burst opener, and amazing execute end. The lull period in the middle is a tad lackluster, even more so if we have to be out of range for mechanics. So it would be lovely to have some sort of CD refresh ability you could use once a fight, or some way to reduce the CD's of those. I dunno, maybe each successful crit auto attack reduces your CD's by a certain time or % of time or something along those lines.

There are tons of ideas out there, but Blizz has a tendency to ignore most of them.

[Roiids]

Amazing execute end? I hate Juggernaut.

[Deleted]

I have my fingers crossed for few things.

1) Inner Rage as baseline cuz we kinda lacking heavy hitter outside execute phase.
2) Massacre as a baseline, to make up for low uptime on Enrage in execute phase without it.
3) Rework of never picked talents like Reckless Abandon, Outburst and Fresh Meat. We are missing Cleave talent, and now its perfect opportunity to replace Reckless abandon or Outburst with something like old meat cleaver "After every Whirlwind next Raging Blow also hits one nearby target"
4) Buffs or rework on current golden traits. We have 3 passive golden traits, and this is perfect opportunity to make one on use ability.

Odyns Champion, instead of being passive, it could be an ability with X seconds CD, and effect could stay the same. That way u would have really useful utility CD, which with good management would separate good warriors and bad warriors.

Juggernaut could stay the same, even with 5% per stack, but make duration on it longer, even 10 sec up from 6 would make a huge difference.

Rage of the Valarjar is pretty awful at the moment, mostly cuz it procs when u don't need it or when u have nothing to dps. It should go something like this "Rampage and Execute have a chance to activate Berserking, and every MELEE attack or ability increases your attack speed and crit by X amount up to a total of 12 stacks."

[orgonutil]

i am really afraid about what they will gonna do

[Anbokr]

To play the devils advocate is say Fury is now in a pretty good spot. Obviously there are some things that could change, mainly all of our Golden Dragon Traits for example. Honestly though we aren't bad anymore. While I do play casually, with a hardcore mindset I'm currently 870 ILevel with the Enrage Legendary, but in my weekly Heroic EN PUGS I'm usually top 3 damage throughout most encounters. Granted these are PUGS and they more then likely aren't the greatest, but the phrase as old as time "if you aren't the 1% it doesn't matter"

There are some definite QoL buffs/fixes but overall I'm pretty happy with Fury. They remind me of Cata Ret Paladins where they have insane burst and ride that damage until CDs come up. As long as you plan your CDs around the encounter (mainly OF cleave) you'll do just fine.

7.1.5 isn't a hotfix numerical buff patch to help out people in a bad spot. Literally every single spec is getting some changes, mostly directed at talents. It would be absolutely stupid if both arms and fury got 0 talent changes considering just like every other spec in the game -- both of them have a myriad of useless talents.

The focus of this patch is to balance out talents, fix quirks, and promote alternate playstyles. Fury has plenty of quirks and talents to be fixed. Do you think fire mages, sub rogues, MM hunters, assa rogues, Demon hunters, etc... all weren't "fine?" That's why they got changes? Hell naw. This is supposed to be the mini-rework, talent balance, and artifact patch. After the recent hotfixes and 7.1, every spec is "fine" from a numerical PoV, but once again -- that's not the point of this patch at all.

i am really afraid about what they will gonna do

Yeah, a lot of specs got a net nerf and many are unhappy about the talent changes. Here's to hoping they don't destroy stuff like inner rage / massacre / endless rage and force us into some quirky ass playstyle.

After their, "we'll bake in some talents taken by 98% of players" comment at blizzcon every spec thought they were getting 2-3 of their favorite talents baked in lol. It was sobering (and upsetting?) for them when those 2-3 talents got nerfed, and the alternatives buffed. Think they shouldn't have made that comment at all considering how few talents got baked in.

[orgonutil]

7.1.5 isn't a hotfix numerical buff patch to help out people in a bad spot. Literally every single spec is getting some changes, mostly directed at talents. It would be absolutely stupid if both arms and fury got 0 talent changes considering just like every other spec in the game -- both of them have a myriad of useless talents.

The focus of this patch is to balance out talents, fix quirks, and promote alternate playstyles. Fury has plenty of quirks and talents to be fixed. Do you think fire mages, sub rogues, MM hunters, assa rogues, Demon hunters, etc... all weren't "fine?" That's why they got changes? Hell naw. This is supposed to be the mini-rework, talent balance, and artifact patch. After the recent hotfixes and 7.1, every spec is "fine" from a numerical PoV, but once again -- that's not the point of this patch at all.



Yeah, a lot of specs got a net nerf and many are unhappy about the talent changes. Here's to hoping they don't destroy stuff like inner rage / massacre / endless rage and force us into some quirky ass playstyle.

After their, "we'll bake in some talents taken by 98% of players" comment at blizzcon every spec thought they were getting 2-3 of their favorite talents baked in lol. It was sobering (and upsetting?) for them when those 2-3 talents got nerfed, and the alternatives buffed. Think they shouldn't have made that comment at all considering how few talents got baked in.

my bet: Massacre or Carnage will become baseline and they will fuck with inner rage nerfing it or buffing other talents in the row

[Bangaa]

You guys are missing out on the best part of 7.1.5 for Fury. In world PvP, if you have the new legendary, the Bounding Stride talent and the Barbarian PvP talent, you guys have 5 heroic leap charges, on a 30 second recharge. Also, they deal 200% increased damage and give you a 70% sprint for 3 seconds. I know it's not a "viability" increase or whatever but this is a game guys and 5 heroic leap charges sounds fun as hell.

[Anbokr]

You guys are missing out on the best part of 7.1.5 for Fury. In world PvP, if you have the new legendary, the Bounding Stride talent and the Barbarian PvP talent, you guys have 5 heroic leap charges, on a 30 second recharge. Also, they deal 200% increased damage and give you a 70% sprint for 3 seconds. I know it's not a "viability" increase or whatever but this is a game guys and 5 heroic leap charges sounds fun as hell.

With 200% increased damage, heroic leap does something like 40-60k damage after reductions. That's horrible. It's nothing but a gimmick, and while sure it's nice to see the positive in things the truth is this is just another unexciting legendary for 90% of warriors. This is something clogging our loot table like pre-buff prydaz. It's what people pray doesn't drop because you'll never equip it provided you have 2 other legendaries and if you don't, it's an absolutely terrible and unexciting first (or second (legendary).

Not to mention it was clearly made with the arms legs in mind but Fury/Prot don't get access to that. But lazy blizzard decided to slam it across all 3 specs because making 1 leg is easier than making 3 for some classes I guess.

Many of the legendary designers are ex-d3 designers that I greatly respect, but I feel like they still don't understand that heroic leap in wow =/ leap in d3. In d3 you had all these cool leap legendaries that let you leap often and buffed the damage, but the reason those existed in the first place was because you had an entire set dedicated to making leap do bonkers damage. Without the latter, no one would give a shit about leap in d3 just like no one does in WoW. If the legendary had some other component (i.e. your leap now does 1000% increased damage), that would make it legit. Shit, now I can legitimately use leap off CD as a damage buff with this legendary. Jumping to a pack of adds is monster AoE.

[Bangaa]

With 200% increased damage, heroic leap does something like 40-60k damage after reductions. That's horrible. It's nothing but a gimmick, and while sure it's nice to see the positive in things the truth is this is just another unexciting legendary for 90% of warriors. This is something clogging our loot table like pre-buff prydaz. It's what people pray doesn't drop because you'll never equip it provided you have 2 other legendaries and if you don't, it's an absolutely terrible and unexciting first (or second (legendary).

Not to mention it was clearly made with the arms legs in mind but Fury/Prot don't get access to that. But lazy blizzard decided to slam it across all 3 specs because making 1 leg is easier than making 3 for some classes I guess.

Many of the legendary designers are ex-d3 designers that I greatly respect, but I feel like they still don't understand that heroic leap in wow =/ leap in d3. In d3 you had all these cool leap legendaries that let you leap often and buffed the damage, but the reason those existed in the first place was because you had an entire set dedicated to making leap do bonkers damage. Without the latter, no one would give a shit about leap in d3 just like no one does in WoW. If the legendary had some other component (i.e. your leap now does 1000% increased damage), that would make it legit. Shit, now I can legitimately use leap off CD as a damage buff with this legendary. Jumping to a pack of adds is monster AoE.

I understand where your coming from I play my warrior when I'm tired of or burned out on my DH, Hunter or Druid. It is by no means my main class so I see why you would be upset about the lack of synergy. Good news is that if Celestalon is right about the "many *many* talent changes" then there is still hope. #5leapstho

[Anbokr]

The more I think about it, the more I hope they add a damage multiplier to it (if it stays the same).

That legendary would actually be legit if it came with a 500-1000% damage multiplier to heroic leap similar to what those rogue Greenskin bracers do for pistol shot. That takes the damage of heroic leap from 15-20k to 100-200k which makes it a legitimately exciting button to use sometimes. Leaping around to target switch is a small little damage boost, using it as a filler, using it for AoE.

That would fix the item imo.

[Lorkin]

I think you're starting to suggest they do something similar to Diablo 3, and Barbarians with their Leap + Earthquake ability with Lut Socks. The gameplay would basically be to leap around between packs multiple times and just AoE kill them all within seconds. Could it translate to WoW, perhaps . . .

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/active/leap