Destruction: I dont think the sky is falling

[ComputerNerd]

Yep I've tried the other specs, not a huge fan of them either. But that was more along the lines of focusing on Destruction; If the best answer we can give ourselves is "Just play another spec" then Blizzard have failed as class designers.

You might be able to keep the same functional soul shard asthetic without reverting back to embers, but there were several quite organic things why MoP warlocks were much more fun to play:

• Staggered resource generation - You could build up your embers over time and then release one big, punchy Chaos Bolt and it felt great. They could also reliably be generated and used for ember tap when required.
• Triggerable Fire and Brimstone plus Immolate - God this felt fun.
• Mobility - This should be a no-brainer. Extra mobility was a paradigm shift I can't believe they backed away from. It made a lot of sense and was enjoyable to play.
• Decent AoE - Another no-brainer. Brimstone + Immolate + Rain of Fire felt like a great AOE with just enough ramp-up and it felt great to cast. Things melted. Fun times were had.

Basically you had mobile, well-synergised organic DPS that was fun to play and now we... Don't. It's not as fun.

Affliction has from what I understand a shard-bits system, partial shards.
There is no validity to the embers are better than shards argument as both are easily able to have that partial generation to offer consistency.
It is only the design of the spec that fails to provide that, not if it is using shards or embers.
That is how Agony works, each tick offering some random partial amount.

[Baconeggcheese]

So should i just start leveling a new class?

Do you not enjoy any of the specs / the class? Yes

If you do enjoy the class / specs? No.

[corgikith]

i have played warlock since ToT. destro has been my go to, but if the world were perfect, i would probably spend my time multi dotting with affliction. of course BRF made demo lovely. there has been and always is something that is just tons of fun. currently, havoc on odyn is a kick. the thing is, i like trying to figure out how to best use the talents given (by blizzard). of course it is fun to think about how i would design the warlock spec to best fit my skill set (lack thereof), but that seems in some sense to be a different game. e.g., i was disappointed when casting while moving was essentially eliminated (and cried for days) but learning how to play without that ability has helped me with my raid awareness as i have to better predict where to stand for the long periods of time. i have spent some time with RB and i don't really like dealing with mana issues, but if things go that way, i may just have to better learn how to incorporate MT into my rotation. anyway, there are players in my guild that switch up classes every tier and others of us who explicitly do not. (my game identity is somehow bound up with being a warlock) i guess even that is just part of how we play.

[Klingers]

That is how Agony works, each tick offering some random partial amount.

Random.

I'm sick of randomness in the game. Gearing, procs, drops, resource generation... It adds no thrill or enjoyment to the gameplay experience.

[Deleted]

i have played warlock since ToT. destro has been my go to, but if the world were perfect, i would probably spend my time multi dotting with affliction. of course BRF made demo lovely. there has been and always is something that is just tons of fun. currently, havoc on odyn is a kick. the thing is, i like trying to figure out how to best use the talents given (by blizzard). of course it is fun to think about how i would design the warlock spec to best fit my skill set (lack thereof), but that seems in some sense to be a different game. e.g., i was disappointed when casting while moving was essentially eliminated (and cried for days) but learning how to play without that ability has helped me with my raid awareness as i have to better predict where to stand for the long periods of time. i have spent some time with RB and i don't really like dealing with mana issues, but if things go that way, i may just have to better learn how to incorporate MT into my rotation. anyway, there are players in my guild that switch up classes every tier and others of us who explicitly do not. (my game identity is somehow bound up with being a warlock) i guess even that is just part of how we play.

Problem really is that most people consider it "fun" if they are miles ahead of others in the dps meters. Which by definition is not balanced. Your statement of Odyn kind of goes in that direction as well. Yes, it's cool if that is the case, and I would have to lie if I said that playing the Council fight in SoO during MOP where you could play naked and be ahead of everyone else was not something I found cool. Nevertheless, it's not how it should be.

Now, we are in a situation where we have to work much harder than other classes for the same or less result, which can be frustrating. And suddenly people find a playstyle like destruction cumbersome that - let's face it - has not really changed much since charred remains WoD. Still building "embers" then spending them. Just now it's more random than before.

Admittedly, there are a couple of things that are just wrong. Like being one of the few - if not the only - class that does not have a baseline movement speed increase or interrupt. The former is making me feel like the fat kid in gym class. The latter can be detrimental when you are trying to make up for lazy / bad other classes that have the skill but don't use it

[sd2400533]

So should i just start leveling a new class?

if you haven't committed, i suggest that you stop and leveling a new class. Legion is undoubtedly the worst expansion for warlock.

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=1958

Odyn

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=2008

Helya

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=1962

Guarm

as you can see, Destro has already fallen behind, and we haven't even hit 7.1.5 yet. And we all know how fucked up Destro talent will become and how strong affliction will be in that patch. So, its time to ask yourself, whats really the best spec for warlock pve. I think everyone here who has done some progression as Destro will know our damage in both raid and 5 man is less than OK.
The problem will only escalate as time goes by and player gets more gear. If the core issue of Destro continue to exist, we will never be able to compete with Demo and Affliction. because a stable spec is always better than a heavily unstable one.

[Baconeggcheese]

@sd2400533 What are you even doing here man? I've seen you do nothing but shit post since you started posting here.

[Deleted]

if you haven't committed, i suggest that you stop and leveling a new class. Legion is undoubtedly the worst expansion for warlock.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=1958

Odyn

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=2008

Helya

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=1962

Guarm

as you can see, Destro has already fallen behind, and we haven't even hit 7.1.5 yet. And we all know how fucked up Destro talent will become and how strong affliction will be in that patch. So, its time to ask yourself, whats really the best spec for warlock pve. I think everyone here who has done some progression as Destro will know our damage in both raid and 5 man is less than OK.
The problem will only escalate as time goes by and player gets more gear. If the core issue of Destro continue to exist, we will never be able to compete with Demo and Affliction. because a stable spec is always better than a heavily unstable one.

links don't work for me (all 404).

Destruction 7.1.5 might be better than 7.1. I dislike the changes aswell, but the throughput might actually be higher.

Tier19 set for Destruction is pretty strong.

I honestly expect Destro 7.1.5 to be better than current live (atleast in terms of numbers). The one thing I really dislike about 7.1.5 is FnB, Cataclysm AND Soul Harvest being in the same row. They could've made Soul Harvest baseline and add another exciting AoE talent to that row. With the current state of 7.1.5 it is the same thing for us constantly switching talents which I thought was something they wanted to battle.

In terms of viability and numbers and dps and all that I wouldn't worry. Destro is probably going to have some great fights in NH and some not so great fights. They shifted some damage to single target with 7.1.5 (and sadly nerfed GoSac which I don't understand).
The one big thing to argue about is design. Destruction in LEGION is pretty boringly/badly designed. It lacks a lot of QoL and has some serious RNG issues, granted not as much as Outlaw rogues, but still enough to be unhappy about.
But the design is something more personal. The best thing to do is ask yourself if you like how Destruction plays with 7.1.5 and if the answers is no then either switch specc or switch classes. Destruction is not going to change with LEGION into the amazing specc some people want it to be. They are not going to remove Life Tap, make RE baseline, make Cataclysm and FnB and Soul Harvest and Burning Rush baseline and make Mastery non-RNG. They are not going to do any of that.
They are going to switch some numbers here and there and that is all we can honestly expect of Blizzard.

I am not here to tell you Destruction is great, because there are 2 aspects to it. The one being the viability in terms of numbers, which I am sure Destruction will be with NH. I actually expect Destruction Tier19 NH to be better than Destruction no-tier set EN/ToV.
And the other being the design. I personally think that current live Destro has a lot of flaws in terms of design and my personal issues aren't really tackled with 7.1.5 so I dislike the route they are going, but it is the path they are going to stay on.

I have to test 7.1.5 on live servers for several weeks in a raiding environment to make my final judgement and I am less worried about viability than I am about fun, but if numbers/viability is all one cares about then I am pretty sure people will be surprised to see where Destro is in a few months. And if Destro is rock bottom then I am sure Blizzard is going to adjust again.

[Deleted]

To be honest: Most of the major issues for the lock (lack of baseline interrupt, lack of baseline movement speed, lack of burst & too little ST to catch up when burst classes have their downtime) won't be addressed with 7.2 either. When I read that of all the feedback that was given, Embers / Emberbits were the ones that were addressed by the devs (or at least a blue), then you know where this will go: Re-color our shard-UI and split each of them into 50 smaller ones. Done, we now have everything we ever wanted: Emberbits.

There are so many easy fixes that could be done but are not:
- Make Burning rush baseline and leave the talent field empty for all I care. Still better than the crap it is now
- Make Sacrifice give the "interrupt" ability (same cd as mage) and give an interrupt to every pet (the same that the dog has already)

These 2 alone would actually increase the fun of going m+ tremendously, because I would not be the fat kid in gym class any more.

[Deleted]

According to the Warlock community and some specific users, the sky is indeed doomed.

BUT, here is my suggestion:

In 7.1.5 you can reroll a new class and get your AK25. That means in 30min(simple by doing WQ's), you will unluck your 35th trait(which is probably the same as your main, thinking of the avg. casual player). Smart right?

There you go, no reason to get salty. Let passionate people like thier class(such as the Warlocks who have done World First kills while other people had to whine about movement speed, lack of DPS and what not).

[Lucrece]

According to the Warlock community and some specific users, the sky is indeed doomed.

BUT, here is my suggestion.

In 7.1.5 you can reroll a new class and get your AK25. That means in 30min(simple by doing WQ's), you will unluck your 35th trait(which is probably the same as your main, thinking of the avg. casual player). Smart right?

There you go, no reason to get salty. Let passionate people like thier class(such as the Warlocks who have done World First kills while people had to whine).

.....what? 30 minutes to get a 35th trait on a fresh toon? LMAO.

[Deleted]

.....what? 30 minutes to get a 35th trait on a fresh toon? LMAO.

25AK gives you 1-1.5M AP if you clear the whole map for AP.

Add the random HC and few dungeons there you have it. Alright maybe 45-60min, you got me good there.

[Baconeggcheese]

25AK gives you 1-1.5M AP if you clear the whole map for AP.

Add the random HC and few dungeons there you have it. Alright maybe 45-60min, you got me good there.

35th trait is just shy of 7 mil ap, I see what you're trying to get at but you're doing a really poor job of it.

[Fabinas]

lol 25 AK? It's max AK 15 for an alt if the main has AK20+. Try to rethink your suggestions.

[Deleted]

lol 25 AK? It's max AK 15 for an alt if the main has AK20+. Try to rethink your suggestions.

afaik it isnt max 15 AK, you can max buy 15 lvls of AK, so if you have 10 AK, you can buy the last 15 AKs needed to get 25 AK atleast thats how it was on the ptr, might have changed.

[sd2400533]

@sd2400533 What are you even doing here man? I've seen you do nothing but shit post since you started posting here.

What are you doing here? I mean really, what are you using this forum for?
I can tell you i am here to express my anger and disappointment that my class that i have been playing for 6 years has become a total fucking mess. I 've got the gear, i 've got the skill and i 've got the time to play the game, but what i got in return was nothing but disappontment and make me feel a huge waste of my time and energy playing this class.

What i said was depressing, yes, but sadly it was true too. If you just want to go blind and you disagree with me, fine, block me, report me, anything, but shut up you filthy mouth and stop saying other people's idea was "shit" ok?

[Glunn]

afaik it isnt max 15 AK, you can max buy 15 lvls of AK, so if you have 10 AK, you can buy the last 15 AKs needed to get 25 AK atleast thats how it was on the ptr, might have changed.

I try today on the ptr, i can't use the item with a char at 15k, it said i already know everything in the book.
I would like to test with a char at 25 ak if we can buy the book to go to 20ak but copy is disabled.

[Fabinas]

afaik it isnt max 15 AK, you can max buy 15 lvls of AK, so if you have 10 AK, you can buy the last 15 AKs needed to get 25 AK atleast thats how it was on the ptr, might have changed.

No way they'd let that happen in live. It's against their sub retention policy.

- - - Updated - - -

I try today on the ptr, i can't use the item with a char at 15k, it said i already know everything in the book.
I would like to test with a char at 25 ak if we can buy the book to go to 20ak but copy is disabled.

There's no chance that it would work with 20 AK when 15 doesn't. Thanks for the info though.

[Baconeggcheese]

What are you doing here? I mean really, what are you using this forum for?

I use this forum to discuss the class objectively and to help people out who are looking for some info.

This right here is nothing of the sort:

if you haven't committed, i suggest that you stop and leveling a new class. Legion is undoubtedly the worst expansion for warlock.

This^ is a grade A quality shit post, and its 99% of what you've been doing since I saw you start posting. Plenty of people have issues with the class, as do I. I can discuss those issues without trying to shoo people away from the class because I may or may not like something about it. There's nothing constructive about your posts, they're just shit posts.

What i said was depressing, yes, but sadly it was true too. If you just want to go blind and you disagree with me, fine, block me, report me, anything, but shut up you filthy mouth and stop saying other people's idea was "shit" ok?

No I don't think I will, because I'm more concerned with the people you're trying to spread misinformation to knowing that what you're saying is incorrect.

[Lucrece]

Not to mention those copy paste links that don't work were blatant grabs from a post I did on another thread discussing Affliction on ToV, nothing to do with destruction at all. He copy pasted my text with the exact same order of bosses for the 3 logs links.

He's an absolute troll that should be censored to keep derailing discussions.