I love the legendary system - please counter balance all the whining here.

[Deleted]

The idea is great, i like it. However some changes are needed, a friend of mine got 3 non class-specific legendaries on his main, something like that shouldnt happned for example. The power balance should be a little closer but the fact that it wont be equal to all is fine by me, lots of stuff is rng, will never be as skill intense as starcraft or w.e

[Onceqt]

If you are an incessant whiner about legendary items, let me make it very clear that you and people like you are one of the primary reasons this game cycles into badness from time to time. And that's because Blizzard listens to you, because there are so many of you.

Random awesome things are GOOD for the game. I remember back in vanilla when I got my first ever random epic drop. I nearly wet myself with excitement. That was back in the days when epics were way more rare than legendary items are now. Then you had several things happen. Firstly you had the natural evolution of the game as more and more people raided and acquired more and more epic items.

What also happened was that this incessant whine started. It started in a few places, and was like an annoying buzzing in everyone's ear. A few twits who didn't know how to play felt entitled to the best gear in the game, well just because. As far as they were concerned, they should be all clad in epic. Eventually others joined in. Before you know it, there was a crescendo of whine, and Blizzard, because it listens to it's customers started acting on the whine.

Epics became easy to get. They were predictable. It got to the point where they were so easy to get that almost every max level player became decked out in epics within a few weeks of hitting max level, and they didn't even need to raid to do so. This evolution continued all the way through until the horror that was WOD happened. The natural culmination of the whining was: Garrison quests, where people could log in for 5 minutes, then log out, come back a day later to find epics waiting for them.

This exact same phenomenon happened with the few legendary items that existed back in vanilla. These items were legendary in the truest sense of the word. Few people had them. Then the whine started, the low level buzzing. It built up and up until we ended up with the awful cloak quests in MOP and ring quests in WOD, where literally every single player had the same bloody "legendary". Facepalm.

In legion we have legendary weapons but still the whining hasn't stopped. Please please stop. Do you want this game to be a boring predictable grind? It's already pretty close to that thanks to your bleating. Random drop legendary items are one of the few wonderful things in this game, guaranteed to give you a genuine "wow" moment, even if it's a fleeting one.

These moments are the great parts of this game, and just because there are the whine lobbyists constantly demanding that Blizzard ruins it's own game to cater to them and their entitlement, I want to stand up and say to Blizzard, PLEASE PLEASE face these people down. Legion is the best expansion yet in the history of WOW yet these people want to drag us back to the formulaic tedium of WOD. Please don't let them win.

Dude thank you. This has been on my mind but I couldn't put it together like you did. I've gotten three legendaries so far (granted I play 3-4 hrs/day on average), but each one has felt so so amazing to get. The kind of moment I haven't had since I first started playing WoW.

[Morssoe]

Sure, if the purpose is to have full legendary set.

[Maggibesti]

And I suppose you are going to call me a liar because I wasn't complaining about it before I got one legendary.
Players are making the problem, not blizzard.
Legendaries are not something blizzard dictate as a requirement.
It is players doing that.

Wait, so I've been living in a lie? So dps, hps and survival in raids/m+ doesn´t matter? Awesome, gonna apply to method with my freshly dinged DH, got the legendary neck, I mean it's just as good as having the ring+helm/braces or even both, also my weapon is like level 15 or something, I mean that doesn't matter either right for mythic raiding? Because if players stop deciding the requirements, anyone can finish 7/7 mythic 1shot, because gear doesnt matter. Because duh, like you say players decide the requirements.

Oh wait, DPS, HPS and Survival actually DOES matter, knowing what to do is only half the fight, not having enough dps means you can't kill the boss in time, thus not able to kill him at all, not enough healing means everyone is dead before you can even say you got a decent attempt.

And since BiS legendaries do exactly that, boost your dps, hps and survivability blizzard actually MAKES that requirement. Everything is controlled by Blizzard. So Blizzard is like "Hey, I'm not gonna give a large % of raiders their bis legendaries, which will impact their guild's progress, which destroys the meaning of an mmo game.

Don't get me, wrong. Legendary system WOULD be good if done correctly. But there are only handful of good legendaries, and the rest of them? Completely dogshit, I mean, if you honestly think that if 2 equally skilled guilds would race 7/7 mythic, one using 2 bis legedaries per character, other one using 2 worst ones, I mean, hey. Wouldn't the guild using the 2 bis ones win? I would think so, wouldn't you? Maybe you don't think it does because you're still asking people to boost your +2 for dem phat 850 loot, with your classes 2 bis legendaries pulling 100k dps because you're a special snowflake.

[Saybel]

The problem is people complaining about legendary gear... you look at their logs and you have to ask yourself, "Is having a legendary going to fix how terrible I perform?"

Usually the answer is no.

I see it on the WoW Forums all the time.

Dude 1: "I don't have a legendary yet I quit!"

*Looks up Dude 1 on Warcraft Logs and he is pulling 150k dps on Ursoc and is iLevel 860*

Yea...

>90 percentile on every fight and I think the legendary system is shit

come again?

[TITAN308]

>90 percentile on every fight and I think the legendary system is shit

come again?

That would be called an exception, not a rule.

[Lyvefire]

Is every driver your aunt?

My point was simple that a person's opinion shouldn't be immediately dismissed simply because they aren't a game developer, and the simply because Blizzard releases something doesn't automatically make it perfect in every way.

If that was your point then you expressed it poorly. This is what you wrote:

Depending on the situation, maybe. But you could reasonable say you at least know what you're talking about when it comes to driving, yes? It doesn't take a master chef to know when the toast is burnt, after all. Nor does it take an F1 racer to change a flat tire.

In no way does this imply subjectivity. My aunt is not everyone true but less than 1% of wows playerbase has something to contribute with as much worth as a developer that has worked on the game for years. Those people are not posting in giant whine threads on Mmo-champion.

That is not to say no-one who doesn't have developer level insight has anything worth saying but there is a frankly, hilarious rampart perception that because you have a Wow character that participates in these systems that you understand how to design them and whether or not they need removal or revision.

[Saybel]

That would be called an exception, not a rule.

It's not a rule that only terrible players think that the legendary system is bad. More or less my entire 5/7M guild think that it's a terrible system.

I could just as easily say that "only casuals are enjoying the legendary system because I only see casuals saying they enjoy it" but I know that generalizing like that is ridiculous without any empirical data to back it up.

[Marrilaife]

ANYWAYS, they screwed this system by having 'shit legendaries'. That to me is what should be fixed. All "SHIT" legendaries should be removed or buffed. "SHIT Legendary" is an oxymoron.

If they really wanted this RNG system, there should have been only one legendary per spec which should be "BiS" for that spec. That's it.

True.

The whole problem is no matter how Blizzard bends and twists the situation to tell us we should be "excited" when we get a legendary majority of legendaries do not invoke excitement at all, the contrary.

Also for some reason every interview they like to drool over warlock's gateway legendary. I wonder why.

I'm sure they'll spend the rest of Legion telling us how we should be happy about legendaries and we're meanies if we don't. Same as they told us in WOD we should be happy about garrisons and shipyards. People kept hating on them, Blizzard went deaf.

Anyway I'm pretty sure this thread is another camouflaged nostalgia thread how everything was better in vanilla before "WOW got ruined". How new and amusing.

The difference is in vanilla if you wanted the best gear, you had to raid, you had to be loyal to the guild and wait your turn for the loot by gathering enough DKP, you weren't pugging raids, you weren't getting BIS gear out of daily boxes, and generally current legendary system is NOTHING like vanilla. So no idea where did that connection come from in the opening post.

On top of it, I don't think anyone asked Blizzard for the current legendary system. Artifacts, yes, people were excited to wield Ashbringer, Doomhammer, Frostmourne (or shards thereof) and similar iconic weapons. I think many would agree adding SO many legendary items simultaneously to the game cheapens the meaning of the term "legendary", waters it down and adds to the fact people aren't excited about them any more, it's just another colour in the pile.

I don't know how OP can in the same post miss the days when "epics felt epic" and yet defend the current system where legendaries are brought down to the level of "everyone can have one".

[Waynhim]

More people are running M+'s then raiding atm, much less hazzle and more fun. Personally I really enjoy that you can stay competitive outside of having to commit to raid schedules, and that you can get lucky rolls on epics and legendaries outside of raids.

They're balancing legs on PTR atm, no?

[Redblade]

I don't disagree but I will stress this is the current iteration.

Straight dps upgrade legendary effects are dumb since they're only exciting to the small portion that actually obtain them but rng legendaries are not necessarily a problem on their own. I was thrilled when I got Prydaz...before I went and looked up the theorycrafting and found it was the worst one. That shield is certainly not to be ignored but when its compared to the goddamn dreamcatcher its junk. The solution does not have to be both going. The solution is dreamcatcher going.

Basically rng diversity of utility across a class is not an issue but rng diversity of dps certainly is.

My more intricate solution to this problem would be to tag the items with 'power' and 'utility'. Instead of the order hall trait allowing you to wear two of any legendary items it would allow for the use of one of each class of legendary. This doesn't solve the RNG aspect in it self but it gives the utility once a purpose. Because when there is potential throughput then the once with it will always win the choice.

To solve the RNG aspect you simply use a legendary token instead that can be exchanged for any legendary you like. This allows for the legendary system to achieve exactly what Blizzard says they want the system to do. Make the player happy and excited when that legendary drops instead of excited for a split second with crushing disappointment afterwards.

Using a token so you can choose also gives the player the option of adapting the items(s) to their own play style, this will obviously come down to the utility one for the most part but som people might not be on the cutting edge and prefer one of the power granting once that isn't considered best as it benefits how they play the game.

[SirCowdog]

If that was your point then you expressed it poorly.

This has been known to happen.

In no way does this imply subjectivity. My aunt is not everyone true but less than 1% of wows playerbase has something to contribute with as much worth as a developer that has worked on the game for years. Those people are not posting in giant whine threads on Mmo-champion.

That is not to say no-one who doesn't have developer level insight has anything worth saying but there is a frankly, hilarious rampart perception that because you have a Wow character that participates in these systems that you understand how to design them and whether or not they need removal or revision.

I mostly agree. There are a lot of armchair developers out there who have no idea what they're talking about. But some of them DO know what they're talking about. WoW is a game which has been shaped over the years by both the developers AND the players. A great deal of things which are in the game right now were originally player-made addons. How much data is there from logs of top-end raiders that probably gets analyzed just as intensely by Blizzard as it does by those competing for world firsts?

I guess what I'm trying to get at here(which I'm probably expressing poorly) is that I see people view anything Blizzard says or does as sacrosanct. Sure, most of the time Blizzard's developers know exactly what they're doing even if we, the players, don't agree. But they also screw up often enough that it bothers me to see people dismiss someone's points based solely on the sentence: "You're not a game dev."

Some people obviously DESERVE to be dismissed. No question there. Trolls, idiots, non-logic arguments, etc. But it's less about them(idiot or not), and more about people leaping forward with this idea that Blizzard can't possibly be wrong, ever.

[Tang0]

The idea is OK, the implementation is poor.


The other day, I ran my new 110 mage through random dungeons, and the tank was a Prot Warrior that had the legendary I actually wanted (Alaya's Stone Heart) equipped, even if it's basically useless for Prot. They were also obviously a mediocre player at best, not knowing any of the fights in the place and being loaded in WQ gear. And honestly, I was annoyed. Why does this person get to have one of my BiS legendaries while they obviously have no need of it and haven't done any difficult content, while I make do with stuff that wouldn't even be an upgrade if not for its ilvl despite making efforts progressing EN and higher M+?

Not knowing fights and being loaded in WQ gear qualifies a player as "mediocre at best"? Why would a player, maining a dps spec and joining the queue as a tank to fasten other people's queues and get his bag of goodies Unequip the highest ilvl ring because it gives him some procs he can't use? It's still vastly superior item statwise.
If you are putting as much effort as you claim to, raiding mythic EN and doing higher m+ runs chances are you've got a legendary or two, plus better shots at higher quality gear overall

[Deleted]

Lol love these types of threads. I have been on the raiding scene,never top end hardcore granted but still i get the need to be the best and have the best. That being said there are some flaws with some of the arguments (the raiders ones mainly).... my thoughts(for what they're worth...
1. The players and the guilds make the 'demands' for gear ilevel and performance not blizzard.
2. The fact that it is random CAN add a fun element to the game...you guys remember fun right?
3. If you are a Mythic raiding guild and are clearly this skilled at the game (and believe me i feel you are) then you should need legendaries to do so, the content wasnt created to only be doable with them,maybe you arent quite as good as you thought? #justsaying
4. The fact that you do this content means surely you would have more legendaries drop anyways? so more likely to get them then a 'Casual'...go do content (ps you sound silly when you say over 1000 mythics...at a guess of 20 minutes per run which is generous that would mean 333.33 hours running them,hard to believe)
5. The fact you are running mythic doesnt entitle you to better rewards...blizzard arent obligued to give you gear that is soooo much better than casual players, thus making the content you run easier...that would simply negate the purpose of them making it harder surely? why cant a visual difference be enough for you guys? its still a status thing right? What you gonna do with all the gear? go run a heroic every now and then...to brag at how much better you gear is to us mere mortals?
6. From my experience of dealing with mythic raiders you guys have proffessions maxxed and gold coming out your ears....so it stands to reason now with the wow tokens you pretty much buy your game time with ingame currency...good luck overturning the opinion of the majority who actually PAY to play the game.

The last three are by far my favourite!
7. Why shouldnt the casual player get to enjoy the euphoria that is opening there bag to inspect there new orange peice of gear! i play a demon hunter and to my surprise (and very unexpectidly) won the legendary ring from my third or fourth HEROIC...(that will wind a few of you up). Was i doing poor dps before? no...do i raid often? not overly,when i can sure but i have work and a wife and children.
8. Nowhere on the tooltip does it say 'designed for raiding', or 'only useable in raids on mythic difficulty' or 'not useable if you're casual'
9. Last but not least.... If you dont like how BLIZZARDS GAME is going dont play it... they dont owe you anything.

That being said i do think that IF an item is purely designed to enhance pvp or pve then it should only be aquired in that area of the game, that being said i got my legendary so i dont care! hurrayyyyy for RNG

[Emerald Archer]

That being said i do think that IF an item is purely designed to enhance pvp or pve then it should only be aquired in that area of the game, that being said i got my legendary so i dont care! hurrayyyyy for RNG

There is no pvp legendary and there is no pure raid legendary.
Sephuz, is not a pvp legendary. How do so many people think that's the case.

[vsb]

You would be right, if legendaries were rare. They are not rare, actually the entire game terminology is messed up. Grey items are trash. Uncommon items are trash. Rare items are trash. Epic items are worth considering, if they have good ilvl. Even legendary items mostly are mediocre stat sticks.

Now the problem is, legendaries are not rare. Everyone have legendaries. And even BiS legendaries are not rare. Double-BiS are rare, indeed. But the point is, everyone have some orange taste and he expects best orange for that reason.

It would be much better design to only have BiS legendaries and having them really rare. Like 1 for 1000 characters after 1 month of play time. Many people wouldn't complain in that situation, because they won't feel cornered. Yes, that guy from that guild got lucky, but noone in my guild got lucky, so it's not really something to whine about. And, of course, disable legendaries in mythic raids, until world first guilds clear it, so those guys won't hunt legendary wielders to compete.

Or, you know, just return to old system like in Wrath or Cata. It was perfect, really.

[BennyVibes]

To the people who are "hardcore" who bitch about average Joe getting a legendary.

Imagine YOU, the I'm smarter, more commited, sexier and better than you at everything guy working at a high end job that requires a lot of time and effort. At the end of your hard 14 hour work day you go to the store and buy a lottery ticket as you've been doing for the last few years. You leave the shop you hear a loud cry, "OMG I WON", and as you turn around you see Joe, the bottom dweller, plays video games all day and doesn't have a job, win the lottery after his second attempt.

You: A) bitch to online forums about how unfair and stupid this system is and that when you go back to work you won't have a job because Joe now has the gold to get into your elite group of morons. The whole time feeling like you haven't been rewarded at all as you get into your 200k Mercedes and take off your Rolex because it's hard to turn the steering wheel with such an 'epic' piece of gear that you're already decked out in (the merc and rolex is your mythic gear because you're all 8/7 EN right now), or,

B) move the F on and keep playing the lottery that is WoW, not expecting this bunch of 1's and 0's to be handed to you like your mum hands you dinner every night wondering why you get so uptight about a game that owes you nothing.

or C) Dribble onto your bib as you try to wrap your head around there being other games out there that have what you want yet you play a game that does what you don't want.

[Deleted]

Much text, much bullshit.
You simply do not understand the problem, especially for some people who want to play on a competitive level. Legendaries being fully rng, while some legendaries are crap and some give a HUGE dps push AND with the bug that gave some people a HUGE advantage are just fail. RNG is ok, but not if it is almost gamebreaking for some.

[Marrilaife]

There we go again...

2. The fact that it is random CAN add a fun element to the game...you guys remember fun right?

"It is fun for me it must be fun for everyone else."

6. From my experience of dealing with mythic raiders you guys have proffessions maxxed and gold coming out your ears....so it stands to reason now with the wow tokens you pretty much buy your game time with ingame currency...good luck overturning the opinion of the majority who actually PAY to play the game.

"I am a PAYING customer my opinion matters more!" There is no opinion of majority here, just yours, no one has any proof what the majority supports, just their own views. How about Blizzard puts legendaries in the Blizzard's store? After all people who PAY more deserve more by your logic...

[nurden]

I love the legendary system. And still i am better then 99.9% players then my class, and I 100% deserve having 2 BiS legendaries. And it took me some time to grind them ( i have 40 days /played on my main @ 110 and i lvl up a week later then everyone).