How are retribution paladin feeling ?

[Deleted]

Hey guys, I'm currently playing Frost DK, and wondering if i should go for Retribution.
My reasons for leaving the dk community :
- The horrible mobility (I love to do old content with friends, and it's getting really annoying there).
- The too much spamming (I know there is not a lot of buttons or anything, but i feel like destroying my keyboard sometimes).
Why am I chosing the paladin :
- Always liked the class lorewise.
- I like the esthetic around the class (sets, spells, ...).

I never played one because it was feeling a bit slow to me, however I'm currently more in a casual state and don't care about this anymore (as far as it is reasonable, and it looks ok to me from what i've seen).
So I will do solo content, old stuff, random pvp and pve.
Maybe some Mythic+ (not going to top the charts anyway).
So what I am asking is :
- Is the spec feeling ok at dps right now ? (Not asking to be op, if rets are around frost in dps means it's fine) (+ both ST and MT).
- I know the spec ain't that hard and is looking more chill. Is there too much downtime ? (Too much spamming and too much waiting aren't fun either).
- How is the mobility ? From what I've seen, only the horse (possibly 2 charges), is it enough ?

Thanks for helping my decision with your feedback.

[Flarelaine]

Retribution is just the stuff for casual play. No downtime if you can manage your Holy Power (and the artifact has a Golden Dragon Trait to help with that; artifact leveling is usually designed with that trait in mind). Not much mobility, but in casual PvE you can mostly kill mobs before moving out of stuff becomes an issue.

On the down side, don't expect a lot of mythic+ invitations.

[ThePants999]

I'm in the unusual situation where every time the front page has some datamined class changes, I'm hoping NOT to see any Paladin changes. Mobility is poor, greater blessings suck, but in the scheme of things, I'm really happy with current Ret.

[Kaizenberg]

Retribution Paladins are in a very good place right now as they do respectable damage and bring a lot of utility. Freedom, Blessing of Protection, and Lay On Hands are invaluable in both 5 man and raid content (Cenarius comes to mind). Blessing of Wisdom is pretty terrible but Blessing of Might is extremely strong if you understand what classes you are playing with and who to use it on. In 5 mans toss Might on the two DPS and tank; in raids identify who will be doing the most damage and use it on them. There is a reason the world first Helya kill had a Retribution Paladin. For M+ be prepared to be declined... a lot. It's not because Ret is in a bad spot its just that DPS is really competitve and 875+ DPS are a dime a dozen, it also doesn't help you are melee.

All things considered I think Ret is in a very good spot right now and the strengths of the class out weigh the cons. Learn to monitor your parties health and learn when to offer utility and you will be able to have a significant impact on your groups ability to succeed.

[Kisuke42]

I'm in the unusual situation where every time the front page has some datamined class changes, I'm hoping NOT to see any Paladin changes. Mobility is poor, greater blessings suck, but in the scheme of things, I'm really happy with current Ret.

I feel the same way as well. Would love me some mobility, other than that I am ok.

[Deleted]

First, thank you for the answers.
I was kinda scared about the downtimes, but if this isn't a big issue, i'm fine.
I heard you about the mobility, yet at my level it is a problem only in old content and pvp. Rets don't look like to have any issues in pvp, and for old content i can take the 2nd poney ride as talent. Plus, i come from dk, soooooo...
For the M+ invitations, it looks like it is not toward the class itself. Plus, I'll be with friends and we will be making our own groups.

What about the numbers ?
Will I be able to dish out as much damage as my dk in ST ? in MT ?
Not like it matters a lot, but I don't want to be a downgrade for my group.

[Maduk]

Rets don't look like to have any issues in pvp

You're pretty mistaken.
Sure Ret is fine unless the enemy team has a Shaman or Mage which will negate almost all your defensive CDs (except bubble, EfaE).
Offhealing without the traits is shit and selfhealing outside bubble is pretty risky. (imo JV isn't worth it)
Burst is really good. Outside of Wings our DMG is pretty subpar)
Mobilitywise Paladins are on the same page as DKs.

[Deleted]

@Maduk Oh ok, I've never seen much whine from paladin community. Guess it isn't negative like the dk one then ! (Which is a plus).

[CydeTV]

Ret for PVP is good and JV with DP is worth. Running crusade in pvp is kinda bad since we get kited with wings up. Also Ret for M+ is one of the best classes for it. They bring hella good MT and ST dmg and don't know how to die as well as bring all the utility to the group.(even more as BE) and that also contributes to PvE as I've helped cheese raid fights by taunting to soak a hit and living with cheat death. Ret feels really good at certain haste levels with crusade in PvE and my only problem in PvP is getting kited to hell. Other than that, Ret is really good atm.

[dnicks17]

Ret might not be ideal for you.

They have very similar mobility and are extremely spammy(RIP keyboard if you get legendary ring).

[Deleted]

Thank you all, but i have one more question tho.

I've heard the dps of retribution comes in form of burst phases with crusade.

Is there a big difference ? Does this mean rets are not really dealing out of crusade ?

[dnicks17]

Thank you all, but i have one more question tho.

I've heard the dps of retribution comes in form of burst phases with crusade.

Is there a big difference ? Does this mean rets are not really dealing out of crusade ?

Yes.

Be prepared to spike to 1.3M dps with Crusade and trough to 200k outside of it.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Like a cheap, sodomized slow pimped -up carbon copy of an arms warrior, without all the cool moves but with a derpsteed.

[Deleted]

Yes.

Be prepared to spike to 1.3M dps with Crusade and trough to 200k outside of it.

You don't spike 1.3M DPS lol (unless you are bis geared with both legendary ring and cape).

OT:
The problems you describe with your DK is in fact very similar to Ret. Very bad mobility. Very spammy during wings. You want to fill every GCD so there should be no downtime. On the flipside we have the best survival tools of all classes. Even a cheat death mechanic.

We are very strong on single target DPS atm, potential to be OP in 7.1.5 (legendaries and new nighthold trinket is just syncronizing too much).

[Maylander]

You don't spike 1.3M DPS lol (unless you are bis geared with both legendary ring and cape).

OT:
The problems you describe with your DK is in fact very similar to Ret. Very bad mobility. Very spammy during wings. You want to fill every GCD so there should be no downtime. On the flipside we have the best survival tools of all classes. Even a cheat death mechanic.

We are very strong on single target DPS atm, potential to be OP in 7.1.5 (legendaries and new nighthold trinket is just syncronizing too much).

Yes, I agree, I'm worried about 7.1.5 in that regard. There might be too much synergy going on with Crusade at that point, which will boost our burst through the roof, and that in turn is usually a recipe for being slapped in the face by the nerf bat.

All in all, I'm fairly pleased with Retribution at the moment though. I'd like to throw in that it feels a bit more sturdy than other melee classes, both in terms of raiding (I'm usually among the last to fall) and world content/leveling.

[Shelly]

Ret is fine, but it has all the same mobility issues of DKs - you get a sprint on a short CD and can actually do stuff while on your horse but you just sort of trudge about in plate armor.

Range for ret was massively shortened in Legion. Ret used to be a mid-range melee DPS, you could attack a lot of stuff from pretty far away, now you're in close with only one really ranged ability - judgment.

AoE Ret stinks. It needs a massive buff, basically it needs to be given the prot treatment and had consecrate made baseline with abilities cleaving while standing in your consecrate and then to lose divine storm or have it change TV to storm when on consecrate.

Now all that said your single target is pretty damned good. You hit like a truck, you have amazing utility and single-target survivability via shields, a 5HP spender talent that can heal you up to full in the correct circumstances, good buffs and strong burst.

For best mobility as melee - with special consideration to soloing or grouping old content - you're best off looking at shaman, demon hunters, rogues, druids and monks. All have better burst speed/sprint via an ability (ghost wolf, sprint, grapling hook, etc) or in the case of demon hunters a correlation between movement speed and mastery.

[Deleted]

That's nice feedback, the pala community seems a lot nicer than the dk one (they are way too salty honnestly).

Guess I'm not going for ret in this case.
Still, is your damage really that low outside of crusade ?

[Maylander]

That's nice feedback, the pala community seems a lot nicer than the dk one (they are way too salty honnestly).

Guess I'm not going for ret in this case.
Still, is your damage really that low outside of crusade ?

Yep. A single poor/interrupted Crusade window and our DPS drops significantly. There are ways around it, by going Divine Purpose + haste + no "on use" trinkets, but it'll still be quite a bit behind Crusade + vers/crit + "on use" macroed to Crusade.

[dnicks17]

That's nice feedback, the pala community seems a lot nicer than the dk one (they are way too salty honnestly).

Guess I'm not going for ret in this case.
Still, is your damage really that low outside of crusade ?

Yup. It's a pretty brutal class design.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with logs, but under the damage done tab, you can see the line graph for DPS over a fight. Just click your/their name just above the graph.

Here's the top ret parse for M Cenarius as an example: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

He spikes to 1.36M during his first Crusade, 1.22M during his second and then sits around 300-400k the rest of the fight.

[Monzsterr]

I'm feeling fine.
A little crabby that my ursoc parses suck because as we kill him faster timewarp no longer lines up with my 3rd crusade but what can you do?

As for the spec in general;
I've noticed a trend in raids where in LFR ret does terrible, in normal about middle of the pack, in heroic and mythic around the top 3rd.

This could mean a few things: Skill floor, good gear scaling, or powerful artifact traits. Not sure what is causing this trend exactly.

For dungeons I think we're one of the most underrated specs.
With a decently high level Ashbringer our AOE is very strong, not DH or Monk strong, but I suspect we're in the top 5 dps AOE.
We have a 30 second AOE stun on dungeons like Blackrook, Kara Nightbane runs and Court of Stars (the imps).
We almost can't die, Auto Bubble on a 2.5 min cooldown, BoP and Divine Shield make us very resistant to death.