Something needs to be done about M+ and its negative impact on the game

[Ghrog]

But it's not a good sample size when the majority of that sample is biased towards more dedicated game play. To get a true sample you would need to also sample people that don't care enough to post on forums.

Maybe you should take that statistics class that have at your local junior college.

Actually, I have taken grad level stats classes on my way to my masters degree in engineering, but thank you for your suggestion.

As for the level of dedication of game play. Who do you think it is that is Blizzards core audience that has been with them for most of the past 12 years? Those are the people that any company that has half of a grain of common sense should at least lean towards listening to.

15-20K people that are representative of your core audience... yeah. My point stands.

[actiwe]

Guys I can only play 0.5-1h per day can I get the same as everyone farming 6-7h a day?

[Deleted]

Again, I'm not alone on this. Plenty of people agree with me and I'd be willing to be that I represent the typical WoW player.

You don't represent anything but yourself.
Keep that inflating ego in check please.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

My alt does fine and it doesn't keep up with my main or other players AT ALL when it comes to AP or mythic+ runs. End of the day Blizzard decided to make the game more rewarding to people that play the game instead of just letting everyone have everything in the first 2 weeks and then unsubbing while complaining about nothing to do.

[Svisalith]

We should not feel forced to run M+ to stay ahead of the curve or even slightly near the curve, that is bad game design.

"We should not feel forced to run Raids to stay ahead of the curve or even slightly near the curve, that is bad game design."

See how this works?

[melodramocracy]

But it's not a good sample size when the majority of that sample is biased towards more dedicated game play. To get a true sample you would need to also sample people that don't care enough to post on forums.

Maybe you should take that statistics class that have at your local junior college.

Like it or not, forums are the only verbal feedback Blizzard gets on their games, unless someone is hitting the unsub button. Folks that don't care to give input on forums are probably not very invested in the game to begin with.

[Regalbeast]

But you are in aforum and a peep that want gate content


so youre existence is a antithesis to your own argument

maybe you should put more thought in your "arguments"?

"I still come because I like it here even though I'm not hardcore anymore." answered your question in an earlier post, you must have missed it.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Guys I can only play 0.5-1h per day can I get the same as everyone farming 6-7h a day?

The problem is you accomplish nothing in this game anymore unless you spam the same boring, repetitive dungeons over and over and over again for 10 hours straight.

We went from boredom of too little to do, to boredom of too much to do.

[Normie]

So what you are saying is that 15-20K People is not enough of a sample size to generate a realistic cross section?

Oooookay. Maybe take a statistics class somewhere. I'm sure your local Junior College has them for a reasonable price.

That statistics class will include topics like "random variable" and "correlation" and "selection bias," which would be relevant to a discussion about whether a selection of .2% of a population is representative of the entire population. You might want to finish those chapters in the textbook.

Of course the .2% on MMO-C is in fact not even remotely representative of the other 99.8% of players.

Like it or not, forums are the only verbal feedback Blizzard gets on their games, unless someone is hitting the unsub button. Folks that don't care to give input on forums are probably not very invested in the game to begin with.

inorite, they are these strange people who just play the game.

[Gaidax]

It's fine, it was sort of mandatory to stay competitive at the start, but now when you already have that 5% in main spec (if you truly give a damn) and tons of raid gear - not so much or even not at all, actually.

Basically as soon as I got that 5% trait, I dropped down to doing weekly +12 and some occasional M+ when I'm bored, that's it. We have like one or two nolifers in our guild that will probably grind until they drop dead, but they will be like 1-1.5% damage higher on Artifact at best really and maybe get lucky and get some odd cool item, if that.

On the other hand, it's nice that there is actually something sort of useful to do besides AFKing in Dala, even if chances of getting actual upgrade from M+ nowadays are super slim for mythic raiders.

[Deleted]

Of course the .2% on MMO-C is in fact not even remotely representative of the other 99.8% of players.

Doesn't really matter, when the other "statistic" it's going up against is *one* guy saying bullshit like "I'm the average WoW player (but I'm also not the typical wow player, because I like to hang out on MMO-C)"

I'm choosing the .2% MMO-C population over one donkey for sure.

[kamuimac]

What does make me laugh is peoples requirements for M+ demanding 880 (even though they are like 860) to 3 chest DHT +2.

Its ridiculous.

supply and demand - as long as they can fill that group in resonable time they will demand it

i know that its douchebag move , its very toxic behaviour but people are people - selfish greedy bastards - thats human nature you cant do anything about it

in order to fight it blizzard would have to hire X amount of people who would organize coordinate and run groups 24/7 in group finder inconnection with voice chat - but this will never happen even though i bet they would have dozens of people from easter EU willing to work like it for 500 euro/month , hell i bet most of them would start streaming and some woudl make extra $$$ on twitch but hey what do i know

but it would require someone in marketing department having brain - sadly its very commoon for most of crporation that most of decisive people are straight morons who rather spend milions on advertisment then thousands on solution

[insomniac1969]

Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

[Gaidax]

One thing I do agree about negative M+ impact is that it made the whole ilvl requirements issue even more ridiculous, thankfully I don't have alts or am a new guy on the block, but I can imagine the suffering of some ilvl 850-860 guys nowadays.

[Gambit5555]

**Edited - see bottom**

Now before you freak out and tell me I'm stupid, hear me out....

As a former hardcore player (not hardcore progression, but hardcore like 6-7 hours per day) that can only play .5-1 hour a day, M+ is killing the ability for me to progress in terms of gear and AP when compared to other players. M+ is fine in and of itself, it is a fun way to keep dungeons relevant throughout the expansion and gives players something to do. We should not feel forced to run M+ to stay ahead of the curve or even slightly near the curve, that is bad game design.

However, there needs to be a cap on how many times you an run a M+ in a day or in a week OR the rewards need to scale down after you run a certain amount per day. For the majority of players, we don't have time to run M+ all day or even for 4-5 hours in a row. The players that do run these all day have a very, very significant advantage when it comes to AP and gear.

Blizzard has stated that they don't want the game to be just about time sink. Well, Legion is a giant time sink of an expansion, more than I've ever experienced myself (played for 12 years).

If Blizzard wants to stay true to their design philosophies and intent, then they need to put some limits on M+ grinding.

EDIT:

Honestly you guys, instead of flaming and insulting me, how about you come up with something coherent and intelligent in response? Instead of "hur dur time played you suck" maybe you should present an alternative viewpoint? Or is that expecting too much?

Tell me what you have against capping M+ runs at let's say 14 a week, that's 2 per day.

No need for a cap. Why should Blizzard limit people from playing as much as they want? You are requesting this for selfish reasons, without considering you want to limit people from playing the game.

[Ghrog]

That statistics class will include topics like "random variable" and "correlation" and "selection bias," which would be relevant to a discussion about whether a selection of .2% of a population is representative of the entire population. You might want to finish those chapters in the textbook.

Of course the .2% on MMO-C is in fact not even remotely representative of the other 99.8% of players.


inorite, they are these strange people who just play the game.

And as I pointed out, this group is indicative of the core players of the game, as such, I have already answered that issue of selection bias.

As for only 0.2%, when populations become significantly large, smaller percentiles of the population can be used with increasing accuracy. This is why you can use generally 2-5000 people as a sample of 300 Million people and still be within a 95% confidence within a 2-3% margin of error.

Considering that in this sample size that we are taking of the core player base that is most responsible for the success of WoW and is OVERWHELMINGLY opposed to the idea of further limiting this aspect of play (people don't want to be limited, go figure) it is PAINFULLY obvious that the OP is in the serious minority here no matter how hard he sticks his head in the sand and pretends he is not.

- - - Updated - - -

Doesn't really matter, when the other "statistic" it's going up against is *one* guy saying bullshit like "I'm the average WoW player (but I'm also not the typical wow player, because I like to hang out on MMO-C)"

I'm choosing the .2% MMO-C population over one donkey for sure.

Exactly! (Although it seems like there are a few rare birds out there that agree with him, but they are still dwarfed by the vast majority that doesn't want their gameplay limited by some guy that can only play for 30 minutes a day.

[ShiyoKozuki]

what do you want to with this if you are a casual player anyway? Getting "ahead of the curve" like the OP for topping dps in lfr?

Hello? Do you remember WOD?

Character progression gives you a reason to log into the game and play, if there's none left, then you..don't log in.

[actiwe]

The problem is you accomplish nothing in this game anymore unless you spam the same boring, repetitive dungeons over and over and over again for 10 hours straight.

We went from boredom of too little to do, to boredom of too much to do.

So what is it that you need to accomplish with 3,5 to 7 hours a week of playtime? Cause that what's OPs problem is

[Tydan]

IMO i would give Mythic a queue system and make M+ the find your own group and limit this to 2 runs per day.

I would also implement a punishment system where if someone bins off a M+ group then they loose the rest of their M+ runs for the day. There is far too much of this Tank and/or Healer quitting after the 1st pull. I guess what would be hard is identifying a genuine disconnect from some one who has just decided to quit.

[smokii]

**Edited - see bottom**

Now before you freak out and tell me I'm stupid, hear me out....

As a former hardcore player (not hardcore progression, but hardcore like 6-7 hours per day) that can only play .5-1 hour a day, M+ is killing the ability for ME to progress in terms of gear and AP when compared to other players. M+ is fine in and of itself, it is a fun way to keep dungeons relevant throughout the expansion and gives players something to do. We should not feel forced to run M+ to stay ahead of the curve or even slightly near the curve, that is bad game design.

However, there needs to be a cap on how many times you an run a M+ in a day or in a week OR the rewards need to scale down after you run a certain amount per day. For the majority of players, we don't have time to run M+ all day or even for 4-5 hours in a row. The players that do run these all day have a very, very significant advantage when it comes to AP and gear.

Blizzard has stated that they don't want the game to be just about time sink. Well, Legion is a giant time sink of an expansion, more than I've ever experienced myself (played for 12 years).

If Blizzard wants to stay true to their design philosophies and intent, then they need to put some limits on M+ grinding.

EDIT:

Honestly you guys, instead of flaming and insulting me, how about you come up with something coherent and intelligent in response? Instead of "hur dur time played you suck" maybe you should present an alternative viewpoint? Or is that expecting too much?

Tell me what you have against capping M+ runs at let's say 14 a week, that's 2 per day.

first of all, you should change the title to the effect M+ has on your play style, not the game.

you've gone from 6-7 hours per day, to 30m-1hr a day. that is what has had an impact on your game, not the M+ dungeon system.

unfortunately, you dont seem to see the issue with your complaint - if you were still playing 6-7 hours a day would you be complaining about this? or would you be taking full advantage of it?

WoW has a finite amount of content - lets say 200 hours. if you play 6-7 hours a day, you'll be done with everything within a month. if you play 30-mins to an hour a day, it'll last you 6-8 months. when you consider that the expansion came out barely 3 months ago and the next expansion doesn't even have a name, is there really anything worth worrying about?

no.

your priorities have changed, but how you feel about that change hasn't caught up with the reality of the situation yet. so, lets make a complaint about people who play lots more than you are now able to being able to get "everything" quicker than you can and suggest a cap on it so you dont feel as bad about it.... oh wait.

We should not feel forced to run M+ to stay ahead of the curve or even slightly near the curve

this is your problem - you are trying to stay as competitive as you were on 6-7 hours a day, when you now only have 1. this is what happens when you suddenly can't play as much.