Exorsus and their statement.

[Marrilaife]

The problems I see with the "competitive pve scene".

1. The game is buggy as hell. There were always bugs, but I don't remember that many and that gamebreaking since vanilla / early tbc. Bugs in raids, quests, class mechanics, everything, some of them just irritating, some exploitable. And fanboys keep defending Blizzard "oh but programming is hard work"... Being a chef is hard work but you wouldn't defend one who burnt your food (oh hai Nomi), and generally that applies to anything you pay for, if you pay someone to put wallpaper in your room and it's sloppy and ungluing itself or has wrinkles, you'd complain too.

They manage to break every simple small thing, they even broke font in 7.1 on non scaled default UI so I had to use an addon for 1,5 weeks before they fixed simple thing like that. My demon hunter could not loot the flower mobs spawning in garrison garden, since the creation until I actually levelled my herbalism and left garrison, I heard that is fixed now, but not sure, took them months, and that was applying to many other mobs like MOP worldbosses. The smearing portraits bug exists since the implementation of new character models and it's not fixed for a second expansion in a row. They also managed to break my druid's transmog helmet by changing its size to too big while it was fine during WOD.

And people had way bigger bugs like if you had hunter pet with prowl, it would bug your main action bar, druids had multitude of bugs with their order hall campaign (not receiving 3rd relic slot, getting all of their bloods removed instead of just 10 etc.), many other classes had bugged quests for secondary artifacts or second grade of troops (especially hunters and paladins).

Maybe they should stop with their philosophy of change for the sake of change (things like revamping classes / specs every expansion or tampering with things that didn't need to be tampered with like nameplates or character panel), and concentrate more on polishing and bugfixing so less gamebreaking and exploitable stuff goes live. Within a week we had 1 banwave for world quest AP exploit and second one for Helya... We had 2 out of 3 bosses in TOV being bugged...

Many MMOs flopped because of too many bugs in game at launch (Wildstar, ESO, SWTOR), WOW is a powerhouse but doesn't mean Blizzard should get sloppy with their QA.

2. Blizzard fails to limit no-lifing giving advantage in this game, even worse, this expansion they encourage and embrace it with the legendary system... Play endlessly and keep hoping you hit the jackpot!

The world race scene dwindles since Cata when split raiding and maintaining raiding alts became so widespread you couldn't compete without it and with it the game becomes a huge timesink just for a "smile and handshake" if you succeed.

The current system encourages levelling bazillion alts, grinding few hundreds m+ on each of them and then cherry picking the ones with best legendaries because they increase your performance by 10-20% and that's non negligible in a cutting edge progression. Before such power would be locked behind set bonuses or trinkets but with split raiding and master looting you could target who receives what. With legendaries, no way to target them, no way to distribute them and decide who should get what, it's just a lottery, keep throwing your resources at it.

The class balance rollercoaster also requires people to keep alts and offspecs and constantly switch, and with artifact power (apprently atm if you don't have 35 points in your spec you are not progression viable because you're missing 5% of your dps) and legendaries that's a massive grind on multiple characters / specs.

I thought artifact knowledge was supposed to reign it in making no-lifers only 1-2 traits ahead of casuals, atm the gap is 5+ ranks...

It's a lot of effort for little pay off and I'm not surprised guilds like blood legion decide "fuck it, we're quitting / going casual".

Players who want to get something out of their gaming hobby switched to hearthstone and overwatch. At least there you have tournaments with prizes and guess what, there's less punishment for a situation "my character got nerfed" because switching to something else is way easier.

[Jotaux]

Do you even know what Malice is? Wait, do you even know what raid bosses are?!

So you have no defense for your two examples being horrendous?

[simpleton]

true I just cringe thinking about all the top end raiders in their actual environment(behind the mic). I mean I watch one guy whos barely in a top 50 guild that raids 6 days a week for about 6hrs each time and he wore the same shirt for 15 days (aka didn't shower for 15 days). That is disgusting. I didn't say anything in his chat about it but I just kept it to myself and was like " i wonder if he is going to be wearing this same celldweller shirt today" 15 days later...

I have no sympathy for a niche group of people who play unhealthy amount of times, skip showers and meals just to be the top 10 in the world to kill a boss. Congrats you did something that will eventually be killed by everyone else just with less boss abilities. In 2004-2009 this was cool but nowadays its hella cringe. I used to be a realm first raider and even after that raiding 5 days a week 4 hrs each day I had enough as I grew up.

If you want to get paid for playing video games look to streaming/youtube/building a brand but don't blame blizzard they wont give you money to smell like crap and play 12hrs a day for 3 weeks without any sort of productive thing given back to society or the gaming community but your toxic attitude towards "casuals".

BOOM

well said.

[Deleted]

So you have no defense for your two examples being horrendous?

Dunno, if skipping the hardest mechanic of an end of expansion boss with a toy (could be replicated with death probably), is not a fitting example. Too high stantards for me, I guess.

[Ashkiman]

The summery of their statement: Everyone cheated in the past and got away with it so we thought it's okay to cheat, btw legendaries suck and Blizzard doesn't care about PvE otherwise we nobody would cheat.

[Deleted]

BOOM

well said.

I'd actually consider watching someone else play a game for 15 days straight questionable. Not to mention that this #50 guy is probably raiding less total hours per raid tier than the guy you quoted.

[Jotaux]

Dunno, if skipping the hardest mechanic of an end of expansion boss with a toy (could be replicated with death probably), is not a fitting example. Too high stantards for me, I guess.

I'm sorry did using the toy once stop Garrosh from ever casting malice again in the encounter? Did you even do Garrosh or are you just trying to deflect from your piss poor examples?

[Deleted]

I'm sorry did using the toy once stop Garrosh from ever casting malice again in the encounter? Did you even do Garrosh or are you just trying to deflect from your piss poor examples?

No, the toy just removed Malice out of the game, so that 3-8 people still could keep DPSing the boss and not playing the mechanic for 30s/Malice. This exploit basically made this boss obsolete. If you dont understand raiding then stop quoting me.

[simpleton]

The summery of their statement: Everyone cheated in the past and got away with it so we thought it's okay to cheat, btw legendaries suck and Blizzard doesn't care about PvE otherwise we nobody would cheat.

Exactly. His statement is a perfect example why the overwhemling majority of the playerbase feels like cutting edge raiders live up to all the negative toxic stereotypes.

All he did was confirn them.

Maybe, just maybe, the playerbase has no interest in watching these narsassitic and toxic players down boses "competitively". Of course they wont look inward at themselves for reasons why competitive raiding isnt a popular spectator esport but that would require them to step out and self reflect and if there is one thing high end raiders are not willing to do...its that.

[Deleted]

Exactly. His statement is a perfect example why the overwhemling majority of the playerbase feels like cutting edge raiders live up to all the negative toxic stereotypes.

All he did was confirn them.

Maybe, just maybe, the playerbase has no interest in watching these narsassitic and toxic players down boses "competitively". Of course they wont look inward at themselves for reasons why competitive raiding isnt a popular spectator esport but that would require them to step out and self reflect and if there is one thing high end raiders are not willing to do...its that.

You seem to be pretty confident of your opinion. Someone else could just quote your post and call it an example of how toxic this community is.

[simpleton]

You seem to be pretty confident of your opinion. Someone else could just quote your post and call it an example of how toxic this community is.

There is nothing toxic in what I said. You are super defensive. "The lady doth protest to much me thinks"

[Deleted]

What I got from their statement/rant was a complete overestimation of their own importance, nothing more.

Basically, this.

It was a whine, followed by a delusional fantasy in which Blizzard pays them to play their game. LUL.

Real talk: WF guilds are killing themselves with the stupid requirements and habits they've gotten into lately. I seriously doubt Blizzard wants to encourage that, and they're also not going to design the game with WF as the target audience to prevent such habits. So tough shit. Stop trying to be rich and famous slaying dragons on the internet, and just enjoy the damn game at a pace that doesn't ruin you.

[Chookchan]

It was more of a sissy tantrum than a statement. I didn't realise getting banned for exploiting was grounds for complaining about the state of the game.

Split raids are killing top guilds too. Progressing in Mythic difficulty is fun, but leveling 6 characters, farming legendaries, AP, gear on them to make 6 splitraids on heroic week is not.

But just before this you said

The sad thing is - PvE top scene is slowly dying. Remember the times when getting into top 10 of the world was something you dreamed of as a hardcore guild? Now it's more of a question if you have 20 people to stay online for 14+ hours for 1 week.

Guess what - The PvE top scene is about split-raiding and playing 14 hours a week.
Who do we have to blame for this sub-par raiding culture? Blizzard or ourselves?

Pshhhhh what am I thinking? The real question is -
Who's easier to blame? Blizzard or ourselves?

[goriander]

Guess what - The PvE top scene is about split-raiding and playing 14 hours a week?

+14 hours a day for a week, not 14 hours a week.

[Jtbrig7390]

+14 hours a day for a week, not 14 hours a week.

And this has been the case since day 1, It isn't anything new.

[Deleted]

The top guilds are complainin about having to split raid and farm shit tons etc, but this is the system that they implemented and really only they use. They need to stop whining about it, nobody owes them anything for playing the game in this way.

[manypillars]

I'm sympathetic to a point. Blizzard, and the industry in general, seems to prefer head to head competition. Maybe it's easier to package, or easier for the audience to understand, or maybe it's just what audiences prefer to watch, but PvP is what esports gravitate towards. Was there even a live raid at Blizzcon this year? He's right that it's the heart of WoW. The message from the devs and much of the playerbase is that this is the playstyle we should all strive towards, or we're doing it wrong.

My sympathy stops at selling boosts, and the demand that everyone subsidize prize pools through pet sales in addition to the content. I don't sympathize with their demand that I desire to be like them and that I should be driven by a prize pool to be in a top 20 guild. I've never cared, and telling me I need to be dazzled by the split raid 6 alt playstyle so that the top 20 guilds can make a career out of dragonslaying, have a recruitment pools, and boost clients makes me want to avoid that kind of player at all costs.

I guess it's good to know when I see an ad for a carry from a 'top guild' on the Voldemort forum that it probably actually is a top guild?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Not worth putting a money prize on it because it generates no money. Top end guilds refuse to broadcast it which is where the cash cow would be at. Refuse to put out content to generate money then you refuse to earn money. Point blank.

[Sylvaeres]

Their statement was one giant form of finger pointing because they got caught cheating. The other guild had a very good response, they accepted that the fault was theirs. On the other hand, Exorsus' statement made them seem like giant bitches. They cheat, get caught, and wanna deflect instead of accepting that they fucking cheated. They knew what they were doing was wrong, it trivialized the final phase of an end raid boss. Fuck them

[simpleton]

A skillfull player can jump into arenas and be somewhat successful based on their skill alone. That doesnt hold true for raiding. Its about long time commitments (gearing etc more than it is based on skill. Just dont think these top end raiders cant/wont understand the difference and that at the end of the day is what makes the community lukewarm to "watching" it as an esport.