Serenity caught exploiting on Helya?

[Aggrophobic]

How about testing these fights a bit better, Blizzard?
It's getting silly here.

[Deleted]

why are you accusing method of using this exploit?

Notice how vik, the only confirmed player who used this exploit, is well ahead of every shadow priest?

Unless Method releases their logs, only blizz can confirm method didn't use it-- the evidence the public actually has, points to most likely not.

Viklund absolutely did exploit, as we have the video, and the public meters on the videos also shows the discrepancy in output.

This puts him FAR ahead of everyone else's output, there's even potential that Serenity would not have KILLED this boss if he didn't exploit, because when they did there was only 2 players standing.

Since the difficulty of this boss is mainly a DPS check, this should absolutely be investigated by blizzard and punished if they confirm it on their side.

Comparing skada-dps of 2 different kills and players (different strats/killtimes) is just wrong. With your logic "Sicklikeme" (Fragnance) also exploited some major bug since he did almost 100k more dps than methods demon hunter? and Jikhunter exploited too since he did 70k more dps than the other hunters? While Viklund only did 25k dps more than methods highest dps spriest.

Also Dota wasnt playing s2m, while viklund did. So the dps difference there makes total sense.

[Glas]

Comparing skada-dps of 2 different kills and players (different strats/killtimes) is just wrong. With your logic "Sicklikeme" (Fragnance) also exploited some major bug since he did almost 100k more dps than methods demon hunter? and Jikhunter exploited too since he did 70k more dps than the other hunters? While Viklund only did 25k dps more than methods highest dps spriest.

Also Dota wasnt playing s2m, while viklund did. So the dps difference there makes total sense.

absolutely, it's not a great compression

but the video & (possibly) the discord admission of guilt is what we have on vik; we don't have POV vids or logs for the other shadow priests... you can't accuse method of exploiting when probability is not in your favor, without a shred of evidence.

what we do have is proof on 1 shadow priest, and that shadow priest happens to be considerably higher than the others on the pictures of meters on videos

best case scenario: blizzard investigates these kills, and they make the determination; but given how strict they've been on exploiters, this should be no different.

[Yhcti]

http://i.imgur.com/6KEdiJ4.jpg


I dunno if this is 100% truth or someone made a meme, but since there's the video as well...

Fair enough, don't really care anyway :P

[Zyky]

why are you accusing method of using this exploit?

There's a reason Method swapped raid comps mid-progression to using 3 Shadow Priests to get the kill. Use your head, its common sense.

best case scenario: blizzard investigates these kills, and they make the determination; but given how strict they've been on exploiters, this should be no different.

Really since when have they been strict on exploiters lol. This is the first time they've banned a guild over an exploit since the first LK kill. And there have been PLENTY of exploits since.

[Glas]

There's a reason Method swapped raid comps mid-progression to using 3 Shadow Priests to get the kill. Use your head, its common sense.

you can be skeptical, but you cannot state it as fact, you have no proof...

blizzard needs to review all three kills, the two by method and the one by serenity, and if BOTH happened to utilize this exploit, this should be punished in a similar fashion to the other 3 guilds that got smacked

the point I try to make is; if you're going to go one way on exploits, you have to go all the way... letting some slide is terrible for the raiding community at large.

Really since when have they been strict on exploiters lol. This is the first time they've banned a guild over an exploit since the first LK kill. And there have been PLENTY of exploits since.

past is past, this is now; they used to let bots/third party programs run without mostly without issue but they've upped their anti-cheat team ten-fold this expansion.

[Zyky]

you can be skeptical, but you cannot state it as fact, you have no proof...

blizzard needs to review all three kills, the two by method and the one by serenity, and if BOTH happened to utilize this exploit, this should be punished in a similar fashion to the other 3 guilds that got smacked

the point I try to make is; if you're going to go one way on exploits, you have to go all the way... letting some slide is terrible for the raiding community at large.

I mean its not skeptical, its fact. They never used 3 Shadow Priests for a first kill until ToV, and they weren't a nerfed spec during the EN race. There's no such thing as coincidence, there's a reason, the reason is the exploit.

past is past, this is now; they used to let bots/third party programs run without mostly without issue but they've upped their anti-cheat team ten-fold this expansion.

Bot bans aren't even in the same category as exploits. They've always banned people botting, they've just never announced it very publicly when they send out ban waves until last expansion with Arena and this expansion for other shit.

[Glas]

circumstantial evidence cannot be stated as 'fact', gain access to their logs or a POV of their shadow priest before you do this with merit... or better yet, action taken by blizzard

DEMONSTRATIVE EVIDENCE is what we have on a shadow priest in Serenity, you have no such thing for method and until you do, you can only responsibly say it's a theory (one I wouldn't dismiss)

bot/exploits aren't the same yea, but it's a clear indication (along with the previous AP exploit and the same exact exploited boss we're discussing) of a policy change; stronger enforcement is something they feel is healthy for their game, and it shouldn't stop without the 3 guilds that used a more significant exploit to kill her.

the ball is in blizzard's court

[Rumex]

I don't really know what went wrong, but no expansion has ever been this buggy.

[Hottage]

I don't really know what went wrong, but no expansion has ever been this buggy.

Really? Hah.

[Fleuria]

It allowed them to push in too phase 3 with 2 wave debuffs thus making the dps check alot more lenient if he didn't exploit this they would have definately gotten 3 debuffs and likely wouldn't have actually killed the boss, of course it's a fucking gigantic bug/explot and they should be punished accordingly.

[Rumex]

Really? Hah.

Yes i am actually serious.

Obliterum Bug, you didnt get any Ashes from 'salvage' crafted items.
Shadow Priests loosing insanity out of nowhere.
Atleast 1 WQ quest per week that is bugged, been that since day 1 of Legion.
Withered Jim killed 2 times, but no kill count in achieve.
Several boss exploits, WQ exploits.
Karazhan hunter-pet bug on chess event, still not fixed.
Hunter's falling through the floor in EN when they Disengage.
Legendary bug at the start of the expansion, if u had 1 legendary u apperantly got higher chance of getting the 2nd one.

[Andrej88]

People talking about circumstantial evidence, justice and punishment on a gaming forum? WHAT the fuck is going on? What is wrong with all the people wanting top players and guild to be banned? Crying over legendary systems and "bug exploiting" , when WoW should be just a place where you go when you want to have fun... So many crybabies and no lifers here (im one of them, but still have to point it out) who instead of playing and enjoying the game, go on internet and whine about some trivial things like people using exploits in environment where they don't matter at all. How it is affecting any of you guys, really? You got any money or beneficials from raiding mythic raids or is it just a place on wowprogress that matters? I bet like 5% people on this forum are hardcore raiders like Method and Serenity, but still majority is crying over some bugs and exploits that doesn't affect them.

And I'm a casual player who raids HC EN at best, have mediocre legendaries by this forum standards and i don't give a fuck about which legendaries are usless and who exploited and abused a game mechanic. Just if anyone asks. Sorry for rant, I like this forum for information i can get about playing a class, but some people are down at bottom of Dead Sea for some reason and i don't like it

[Glas]

People talking about circumstantial evidence, justice and punishment on a gaming forum? WHAT the fuck is going on? What is wrong with all the people wanting top players and guild to be banned? Crying over legendary systems and "bug exploiting" , when WoW should be just a place where you go when you want to have fun... So many crybabies and no lifers here (im one of them, but still have to point it out) who instead of playing and enjoying the game, go on internet and whine about some trivial things like people using exploits in environment where they don't matter at all. How it is affecting any of you guys, really? You got any money or beneficials from raiding mythic raids or is it just a place on wowprogress that matters? I bet like 5% people on this forum are hardcore raiders like Method and Serenity, but still majority is crying over some bugs and exploits that doesn't affect them.

And I'm a casual player who raids HC EN at best, have mediocre legendaries by this forum standards and i don't give a fuck about which legendaries are usless and who exploited and abused a game mechanic. Just if anyone asks. Sorry for rant, I like this forum for information i can get about playing a class, but some people are down at bottom of Dead Sea for some reason and i don't like it

blizzard set this precedent, not the player-base

top-end raiding is player & fan driven, and if a set of guilds get punished for exploiting as a collective, then individual players who exploit in top-end kills should receive equal treatment.

[Deleted]

I can't not do it though. On that fight, the healing increase you get when you turn big wigs out with HotP, causing it to heal for more than 100% of missing health.

The only way I can NOT intentionally exploit that is to not cast Hand of the Protector, my only real consistent source of self healing as a paladin tank. That'd be like a warrior just not using Ignore Pain. How the fuck is that fair, especially considering I reported this bug in beta? "Sorry guys, find a different tank for BRH. I can't do that one cause I'm not allowed to use any self healing. Special paladin only handicap, I'm sure you understand."

- - - Updated - - -.

Don't worry about that. It isn't the same as we see in this case.
If its unintencional, and it sounds in your case like it is, blizzard won't take any action. And honestly it doesn't matter cause that boss massively buffs everyone. You aren't supposed to be in danger as tank.

The case at hand is clearly an exploit because it involves a combination of inputs to trigger. I actually think this serenity person shared this in hopes of getting method's kill revoked, as i'm betting they used this aswell.

I think the worst part is that these guilds labeled as the best get exposed as a bunch of cheaters. That is what's sad.
If this happened in PvP the person would immediatly get banned. It has to be the same measure.

[Zyky]

circumstantial evidence cannot be stated as 'fact', gain access to their logs or a POV of their shadow priest before you do this with merit... or better yet, action taken by blizzard

DEMONSTRATIVE EVIDENCE is what we have on a shadow priest in Serenity, you have no such thing for method and until you do, you can only responsibly say it's a theory (one I wouldn't dismiss)

bot/exploits aren't the same yea, but it's a clear indication (along with the previous AP exploit and the same exact exploited boss we're discussing) of a policy change; stronger enforcement is something they feel is healthy for their game, and it shouldn't stop without the 3 guilds that used a more significant exploit to kill her.

the ball is in blizzard's court

It isn't circumstantial, its fact lol. The fact you didn't even quote me is beyond the point, but again they didn't use a 3 Shadow Priest comp until Mythic ToV that's a fact. Shadow Priests were hit pretty hard with nerfs, thats a fact. Their damage doesn't make up for bringing say a good Rogue or Lock, fact going off statistics from warcraftlogs. There's a reason they're doing 3 Shadow Priests and its not because they're such badass dps, its because they can heavily influence this fight with a bug and make it as if 1 shadow priest is doing the damage of 2 dps toons, essentially making it so that they have a 23 person group. Blizzards combat logs don't log enough information for them to take action against these priests using the exploit, so the only way would be for either method to unlock their logs or for Blizzard to petition warcraftlogs to help by making them public logs or share the logs with just Blizzard.

[Magicpot]

The vast overwhelming majority of world first kills by top guilds did not contain any kind of bug/exploit abuse. But keep the hate boner strong.

Thats not the point. It should be one strike and you're out. As in everybody involved in exploiting gets an unappealable perma ban right there. They'd all be banned.

[Glas]

It isn't circumstantial, its fact lol. The fact you didn't even quote me is beyond the point, but again they didn't use a 3 Shadow Priest comp until Mythic ToV that's a fact. Shadow Priests were hit pretty hard with nerfs, thats a fact. Their damage doesn't make up for bringing say a good Rogue or Lock, fact going off statistics from warcraftlogs. There's a reason they're doing 3 Shadow Priests and its not because they're such badass dps, its because they can heavily influence this fight with a bug and make it as if 1 shadow priest is doing the damage of 2 dps toons, essentially making it so that they have a 23 person group. Blizzards combat logs don't log enough information for them to take action against these priests using the exploit, so the only way would be for either method to unlock their logs or for Blizzard to petition warcraftlogs to help by making them public logs or share the logs with just Blizzard.

okay it's """fact""", but since blizzard's data """don't log enough information""" to prove it, blizz should roll back exo/limit/FS bans and give them their kills back

[Chrispotter]

just to confirm- We ( Method) knew about this Spriest exploit but DID NOT USE IT, not even once. We wont make our logs public for many many reasons but if Blizzard does punish Serenity for this, you will see they will not punish us, because we didn't use it The reason we stacked Spriests is simply Mass dispel and their last phase DPS

Pretty funny that little conspiracy kids trying to act like we exploited tho, in TOV, like in EN, it seems we are once again the only guild to kill the bosses without some cheese/exploit
Edit:

For the record I dont know for sure if Serenity even used the exploit, but if they did they wouldn't have even gained that much from it anyway.
Only wanted to make it clear that Method didn't use, not to point fingers or anything

[Aoewy]

It isn't circumstantial, its fact lol. The fact you didn't even quote me is beyond the point, but again they didn't use a 3 Shadow Priest comp until Mythic ToV that's a fact. Shadow Priests were hit pretty hard with nerfs, thats a fact. Their damage doesn't make up for bringing say a good Rogue or Lock, fact going off statistics from warcraftlogs. There's a reason they're doing 3 Shadow Priests and its not because they're such badass dps, its because they can heavily influence this fight with a bug and make it as if 1 shadow priest is doing the damage of 2 dps toons, essentially making it so that they have a 23 person group. Blizzards combat logs don't log enough information for them to take action against these priests using the exploit, so the only way would be for either method to unlock their logs or for Blizzard to petition warcraftlogs to help by making them public logs or share the logs with just Blizzard.

That bug dont make spriest do the damage of 2 dps what are you talking about? If it was that big, Serenity dps log would show Vik on top of the meter xavius style. There are many reasons you want spriest on this fight, could be the mass dispel, could be the fact that they do really well when you can multi-dots, the ridiculous execute phase they can pull, etc. There are no proof at all that method spriest used this bug, none. We only know Vik cause we saw the clip video, thats it. As the other poster said, the only way to find out would be to check the logs.