Legendary cloak

[Deleted]

Aight lads, long time lurker here to discuss haste levels/talents required to keep a high uptime on the cloak.

I'm currently wondering if TFoJ is worth taking to have an easier time keeping something like 100% on the buff. However, that is only possible if you "waste" a TV in between judgement windows.

So my questions has to be something along the lines of this; are there break points? is TFoJ worth taking if it means a higher uptime, though playing a cleave fight? Is it worth using TV between Judgement windows if it means you have the HP and judgement up within the next 4 secs?

Can't find solid answers around this cape.

[Happiminti]

I use TFOJ with the cape and sim ~460k dps and around 20k less with zeal.

[Meiffert]

So my questions has to be something along the lines of this; are there break points?

Yes, there are breakpoints.

It doesn't make a difference whether the Whispers buff expires in the middle of the GCD, or closer to it's start or end.

With 0 haste, you only have 2 GCDs in the buff window, which means, you have to go TV - something - TV to get the buffed TV.
To get 3 GCDs, you need 12.5 % or more, with that, you can go TV - Blade - CS - TV or TV - WoA - J - TV etc.
To get 4 GCDS (so that you could do TV - CS - CS - J - TV or similar, you would need 50 % haste, which is not achievable and probably wouldn't be worth it to go for it anyway (haste is somewhat devalued at that point).

During Crusade, you have extra 52.5 % haste, which easily puts you above the 50 % mark. The next one (5 GCDs) is at 87.5 %, which is 35 % unbuffed. Not only is that amount hard to achieve, it's also unnecessary, because you generate more than enough holy power with the 4 GCDs 50 % breakpoint to have full uptime on the Whispers buff anyway.


TLDR: With the cloak, there is a high incentive to reach 12.5 % haste, but after that there is no reachable breakpoint to worry about.

Also, I don't think that you are "choosing" between the Judgment debuff and the cloak. You can't keep all your TVs under the cloak buff unless you are above the 50 % haste breakpoint.
I think that best plays involves only using TVs under the Judgment window and use the "forced" out-of-cloak-buff TVs to generate extra holy power/recast Judgment to get another string of ~3 TVs with both buffs after.


For the current raiding content, I prefer TFoJ over Zeal. I haven't actually done the math or run any sims for cleave, but there aren't really any fights with sustained cleave anyway.

[Poundcake]

For the current raiding content, I prefer TFoJ over Zeal. I haven't actually done the math or run any sims for cleave, but there aren't really any fights with sustained cleave anyway.

Every fight in mythic EN has something to cleave.

[Meiffert]

Every fight in mythic EN has something to cleave.

Hence the word sustained.

Surely you are not stacking Zeal on mind-controlled players on Nythendra. Same goes for most encounters, there are some adds, but they are either not high priority, or you straight up shouldn't be hitting them (Il'gynoth), or you nuke them in a few seconds by DS - WoA - DS (Nythendra, Elerethe).

Adds where cleaving over some time is the answer are bears on Ursoc and add in first phase of Xavius, but even those are only up for a relatively small amount of time. I didn't think it was worth to sacrifice a decent single target increase to gain marginally better cleave.

[Deleted]

If what I gathered is correct, what you're saying is the ordinary level (~20% haste) rets ordinarily go for, is devalued for us since the cloak buff overtakes it? Meaning crit, theoretically gets a much higher value than haste? I suppose a vers/crit prio especially is a priority for us with the cloak.

[Meiffert]

If what I gathered is correct, what you're saying is the ordinary level (~20% haste) rets ordinarily go for, is devalued for us since the cloak buff overtakes it? Meaning crit, theoretically gets a much higher value than haste? I suppose a vers/crit prio especially is a priority for us with the cloak.

No, I wouldn't say that. The cloak doesn't devalue hate, if anything, it makes it stronger, but only if you reach a breakpoint.

In general, haste, vers and crit are all very close in value for ret paladins. Mastery is the only outlier, it is weaker by about 25 % (just an estimate, it varies).

Which of the 3 good stats is slightly better depends on many factors, such as your relics, trinkets, legendaries and also on how much of each stat you have. You can read more detailed explanation here.

Vers and crit have no breakpoints and they are more predictable, while haste has some and the value fluctuates a bit.
More specifically, the Judgment window breakpoints are 12.5 % (to use 6th ability within the buff) and 31.25 % (to use 7th).
With 31.25 % haste, you have full uptime on the Judgment debuff (it will still drop off, but Judgment will be off cooldown on your next GCD).

Should you find yourself close to one of these breakpoints, it is worth it to make sure you aren't just missing it and are in fact slightly over.
I think this is the reason haste sims very high for people who have ~ 30 %. Just another 1-2 % will push you over a breakpoint.

Unless you can actually reach the 31.25 % though, it's probably not worth stacking it at these gear levels (for most gear sets, vers will be slightly stronger stat at 20 - 30 % haste; not even counting its defensive benefits).

[Deleted]

No, you can't have 100% uptime. Yes, use Tfoj.