I like to raid - I do not like beeing forced to do other content to be viable

[Shammyrock]

I don't think you know what "a casual" means. And if the other guy's guild has different requirements, then that's his fault entirely, not Blizzard's. He knowingly joined a guild that would require him to go out of his way to do content at a breakneck pace because they think they're good enough to participate in the entirely unimportant World First race. When you voluntarily put yourself in that position, you don't get to bitch about it and blame Blizzard. Blame your own damn self and nobody else.

The gist of this really. The only "requirements" in this game are set by players. If you dont feel like the end goal will be fun enough to justify the requirements then don't do them and find an alternative.

[Deleted]

It literally has nothing to do with AP. I specifically said "if you aren't fully decked in 895s then you're doing it wrong."

If you don't have your two BiS legendary items and full 895s you should still farm mythic pluses 24/7 until you get them.

People don't farm m+ for 895 gear. It's a nice bonus if such item drops but not expected by anyone running m+ on end. The only reason to run m+ endlesslyis AP and legendary chance. Not ilvl drops

[ro9ue]

So what's your solution? Remove all non-raid progression paths from the game? That would be WoD. And that was the worst expansion ever.

[Alvito]

AV doesn't take 80 people, it takes you queueing for a BG. I get that you are being purposefully obtuse because you don't like my point, but my point is valid.

The difficulty is what matters not the number of people in the group. So if a mythic 15 gives better gear then EN it makes sense. Sure the breaking of raids being the end all be all for best loot is hard for people to adjust to, but that is the way it is now. For the people that still want the time and effort that goes into raiding being rewarded they are in luck, the best trinkets come from there in almost all cases and soon enough tier gear will be back in the mix. I understand the frustration and dislike I play a class that almost all of my bis items come from dungeons since the stat break down on EN and ToV gear is just dog shit. Is this the best system possible, no. It is far better then the raid or die atmosphere of the last few expansions.

[Aggrophobic]

if its the worst then why the fuck are you and your guildies still playing cause WoD is the only expansion ive missed and was by FAR the worst x-pac so far. the pre-patch for it was enough to make me quit after 9-10 or so years of playing.
to be honest, the only people that would say shit like that are either a troll or started playing in WoD and clearly dont know wtf they are talking about
like you.

oh and i really wouldnt of came back to the game if it was anything close to what WoD was

Once tier comes out yes it is!

It's not out and won't be for quite a while.

[Deleted]

So what's your solution? Remove all non-raid progression paths from the game? That would be WoD. And that was the worst expansion ever.

There are people like me who enjoyed both WoD and Legion. I liked logging only to raid. Now I like doing stuff outside of raids as well. Adapting to changes is a human skill that many people lack

I enjoy the path to do whatever it takes to reach my self-set raiding goals. People shoud lower their goals if the means of achieving such goals is not worth the effort it takes to reach them.

In the end it's about self control and having figured yourself out as a person ingame and in real life. Know what you want in life and have your priorities set.

[Deleted]

Im a casual gamer and i Got 33 traits. I'm only doing 1-2 M+ a week to keep my stone active. I'm only doing my 4 WQ each day + a few high / good reward ones.
Yeah perhaps 35 traits are "required" for M Helya, but then again ToV M isn't for casual players.
It is even really hard for the best raiders you can find anywhere in Azeroth.
The *problem* (if you can call it that) is that ToV are tuned pretty high to secure a challenge. I bet it will see a Nerf with 7.1.5.
Any hardcore gamer should grind AP to get the artifact maxed. And yes that somewhat forces you to do M+ and all AP WQ every day.

I so see the challenge with raid vs other content for power. But if you could get everything you needed for raiding by only doing raids, we would end up with WOD where players AFK near a AH and wait for raid evenings. The open world would be abandoned once again, which would be a shame.

Personally I like how things work with rewards etc, but I do see why some gets turned off by it.
Just remember that in ANY MMO it isn't possible to satisfy everyone. But I think Blizzard are doing a GJ trying

[Hctaz]

People don't farm m+ for 895 gear. It's a nice bonus if such item drops but not expected by anyone running m+ on end. The only reason to run m+ endlesslyis AP and legendary chance. Not ilvl drops

They definitely do farm it for 895s as well. Some of the BiS pieces in the entire game come from dungeons because of the titanforge system.

[Deleted]

They definitely do farm it for 895s as well. Some of the BiS pieces in the entire game come from dungeons because of the titanforge system.

The chance of getting that said item in high ilvl is so low, it's not worth farming exactly for that. AP gives 0,5% dmg increase per artifact level, that gives way more incentive to farm for the very high end guilds (and i mean top10 world guilds here).

[Chaelexi]

You should be. As far as im concerned the monopoly thtlat raiding has on the best gear should die. Tier should be on a vendor.

we all saw how terrible that was in WotLK. Never again.

[Dracullus]

Well, not yet, but if they delay 7.1.5 (or, later, 7.2, or if any of these will significantly underdeliver, etc), it can get to these levels, yes.

In other words, the apathy of WoD has NOT been cured and is far from being cured. It is completely premature to be talking about comebacks. There are positive signals, yes, but they aren't all that big, it all depends on what they are going to do in the next year, it is not like they set themselves up in a great position already, the current position is pretty flakey.

What have I just read.

It's a game dude, nothing more. Apathy of WoD? You think that people will think: "Oh, Legion looks cool, but I still have some apathy from WoD, I need more positive signals."

Most people just return to WoW when some cool new content is out (or don't when they haven't much time or are just bored of MMO in general). WoD lost most subs not because people HATED (GRR!) it, they just run out from stuff to do. And only big patch, 6.2, introduced just raid and empty zone with no story (oh, and shipyard).

Of course activity is lower, in first month of expansion casual player play much more than usual, after 1-2 months you don't even need to play every day, you can (as casual) do emissary every few days, some LFR and Suramar in reset day, some mythic+ to progress with Illidan quest, some PVP if you feel so to reach that prestige skin. But if you have something unfinished and you aren't bored/burned, you won't unsubscribe. In WoD you finished Garrison around December and was it. Now you have Artifact, Prestige and many, many mounts/skin/transmog to collect. Of course a many will soon unsubscribe, but they return to 7.2 and then 7.3. 7.2 look very cool so far, and in 7.3 we get new zone (and I bet it's gonna be big and full of story), so it may bring more people that 6.2 did.

But you assume the sky is falling and it they delay 7.1.5 something terrible happen. Sorry to say that, but you seem to be very detached from reality.

For OP: Every time when Blizz introduce reward outside of raiding, top100 or tryhards will be always "forced" to do that. When they keep meaningful rewards in hardest content, most players will just ignore that and later quit, they just play to relax and progress slowly. So developers must decide if they want to do game for "hardcore" or "casuals". They decided to go full in with casual way and I think it's very good choice. You can deal with that in two ways:
1) accept it, stop chasing every single upgrade and find people that are like you (something like Preach from youtube, he doesn't farm all shit like crazy, but he still raid mythic)
2) find some Warlords of Draenor private server, I hope you like garrisons ;P

...or just quit.

Worst solution is acting like drama queen and thinking that game and world should resolve around you. You won't win or change anything by creating "whine thread of the day", you know.

[shonist]

Not forced to be viable, but definitely forced to be competitive. A lot of the best items drop from Mythic plus or Karazhan, the majority of them infact. And with AP farming being key to character progression you really are technically forced to do other content to be competitive. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily but for sure it kills that large group of high progression players who only logged on to raid, and were able to be optimal because 100% of character progression was done in raids.

100% Optimal would be playing without stopping to sleep/eat/etc. would you be that insane to be "competitive"?

if you are not in first world race you are not competitive btw, you have like 3 months to end a raid in mythic.

[Buckyboyd]

I have to do this grind a lot of hours every day - thats really boring - to do what I enjoy. This has never, ever, been the case before. In any expansion.

Really? Never before has anyone ever had to grind tedious shit in order to raid effectively? You sure you've played this game before legion?

[shonist]

you are a casual obviously thats why. The other guy's guilds might have different requirements.
And mythic EN is made for casuals tbh, when you enter TOV M you need at least 15+ people with 35 on their weps to get passed by. And don't go on and tell me method did helya with 14 people on 35 just fine... because method are method etc and top guilds will always do things that you cant like beating M EN at 865ilvl while you struggling at 880ilvl. So ye the OP has a fair point, for people that want to participate into actual progress its a nightmare gathering all that AP and you are forced out of your way.

this is all like "OMG BLIZZ GG FF QQ I CANT DO HELYA MYTHIC FIRST WEEK BECAUSE IM FORCED TO SPAM M+ ALL DAY ZOMGGG /FF CUMUN BLIZZ CUMUNNN WUT IS DIS I CANT DO IT IN 3 WEEKS I CANT I NEED IT NOW OGMGGGMTN!11!111"

You are pure casual bro, git gud when you have time, and run content that you enjoy, and you will be fine. at least before the next raid opens.

[Deleted]

When did it become normal for people to pick and choose what they do in a game to progress...?

[Zantera]

Having a lot of things to do is what makes Legion so great. Most of the expansions have brought nothing to do outside of raiding or pvping and it's great to see dungeons actually being relevant for once. If you feel like it's a grind then you are either taking it too seriously or you have the wrong priorities. Just do what you enjoy in the game and don't follow the bars set by others.

[Deleted]

It's not out and won't be for quite a while.

1 and half month = quite a while.
Yeah.......

[Deleted]

I will never be happy with a 75% log. I allways aim for 99, things can happen > I mess up, someone else mess up, etc. I allways want to be atleast 90+


But thats not the answer. The answer here is that I do not want to feel entiteled to do endless fo M+ 5man content grinding for AP and Gear to be as prepared i can be for the current raid.

How do you get prepared for something like M ToV? You grind Endless of 5m mythic+. And thats just fucking retarded.

So what's your suggestion? Let me guess: Cap number of m+. The socialist answer to "I can't be bothered to do something, so I don't want others to get benefits from doing it either".

[zaino]

They definitely do farm it for 895s as well. Some of the BiS pieces in the entire game come from dungeons because of the titanforge system.

the best part is the number of BiS piece in violet hold lmao

cant even mythic + that

[Hctaz]

The chance of getting that said item in high ilvl is so low, it's not worth farming exactly for that. AP gives 0,5% dmg increase per artifact level, that gives way more incentive to farm for the very high end guilds (and i mean top10 world guilds here).

It doesn't matter if it's low? Lol the chance of getting a legendary is low too but you see people running thousands of M+ for those as well. The point is that even without AP you would still have people farming M+ for the gear.