Askmrrobot accuracy and trinkets help

[Shadowsongs]

Hello everyone

I was wondering about Askmrrobot stat priority and sims accuracy, it always shows me crit>haste>mast>vers
where is simc shows vers=mast>crit>haste. I am a bit confused coz whenever i try crit gear over mastery gear i end up with more dps and sometimes mastery gears pull ahead alot so I am kinda lost

I have the following trinkets:
bloodthirsty 880
nightbane urn 875
eye of command 860 with socket
eye of Guram with crit 880
Memento 855
and for chest i have nightbane chest 875 to buff EOC and i have Ursoc chest 890 version ( haste, mastery)

I have been trying the following combinations:
70% mast 33% crit 5% vers
58% mast 38% crit 8% vers (crit get to 42% with EOC)
52% mast 42% crit 8% vers (crit get to 47% with EOC)
I simmed all of them and difference is minor but in real fights i see lots of up and downs versus other builds

looking for some help from top ferals.

thanks and sry for long post 8-)

[Fiftyonred]

Did you remember to run a Gearing Strategy sim on AMR to get your personal weights?

[Shadowsongs]

Did you remember to run a Gearing Strategy sim on AMR to get your personal weights?

Yes I did but the results are bit odd, it show me that i should drop in Mastery to 34% and focus on cirt gear only which why i don't trust that

[Fiftyonred]

Regardless of what tool you use, validating its accuracy is very difficult, unless you have the gear to remain within the same item level, and swap between different stats, and then do extensive tests on a target dummy (for single target alone, of course).

For me, i run a Gearing Strategy, see if it makes sense, and then go with that. I see no reason why AMR should be more or less reliable than SimC, but AMR is just so damn convenient for many purposes, that i stick with that.

[Zoopercat]

@Shadowsongs - link me your character name and realm. Also link me to the custom weights you are using (click on the 'view/edit' button above your weights and a page opens, give me that URL). I can run some tests on your stat weights and make sure they are good

[Shadowsongs]

I cant post my links yet so will copy them here
here is my custom stat weights
agil 11.16
crit 8.04
haste 7.8
Vers 7.15
Mast 6.66
Wdps 4.97

my character

Shadówsong at EU shadowsong

Thanks

[Zoopercat]

@Shadowsongs did you run a custom gearing strategy on AMR to get those, or did you just edit them? I ask because the custom AMR ones come with simulation data for every item with a proc (trinkets, legendaries, relics...). So I'd need the link for that. You can PM it to me or just remove the www. and the .com and MMOC should let you post it.

[Shadowsongs]

I ran custom gearing strategy and here is the results i got
askmrrobot/wow/simulator/report/2814f183d8ea41e386d9f82cbea2d6d8?weights=true
I edited the link as much as i could to be able to post it

[Zoopercat]

I ran some tests on your weights - it looks like you used the default iLevel settings when you ran yours (which were from 820 - 880). And your gear is already above that, so I ran new ones for your iLevel range. Use these: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...7511799552f6ec

Then what I do to test weights: I check the filters in the gear page to be just above the gear you'd be getting. Then I run Best in Slot - that lets the stat weights picks the best items. Then once that gear is picked, I click the 'simulate' button and sim them to see how the damage is.

AMR weights (the ones I gave you): 499,140 DPS (500 dps margin of error) http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...c10f68c7fee374
IV weights (as an example): 497,112 DPS http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...5da08cfc2b769d

As you can see, those are quite close (Mr. Robot is ahead by 0.5%) - so as far as playing in game, you probably wouldn't notice a difference between those 2 sets of weights.

The link I gave you for the weights ranks trinkets directly from simulations. You can also manually compare them in sims. Here's a video to show how to do that really fast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWV6CbgliKk

[halflaloafofkungfu]

Bloodthirsty is really good! so is Eye of Command. Eye of Guram and Nightbanes Urn are not bad either. When you find out what values work best for you SIM with different trinket combos to see what may work out best for you.

AGI 12.9, MASTERY 7.98, VERS 7.85, CRIT 7.84, HASTE 6.96 (is what i use.)

- - - Updated - - -

For help past gear, log of some of your fights. Compare them with other druids and if you are still having issues if you post the logs generally there is someone that will read them for you.

[lotj]

I was wondering about Askmrrobot stat priority and sims accuracy, it always shows me crit>haste>mast>vers
where is simc shows vers=mast>crit>haste. I am a bit confused coz whenever i try crit gear over mastery gear i end up with more dps and sometimes mastery gears pull ahead alot so I am kinda lost

Rotation will heavily influence stat weights.

Feral damage is heavily determined by up-times, and up-time is a function of how you refresh it. SimC's rotation priority refreshes at : rip < 8, rake < 7, and sr < 10.5 (with jw). Best I can tell is AMR tries to hit pandemic(*) for rip & rake (4.8 & 3 respectively) and refreshes sr under 12. SimC will FB at max energy if the other finisher conditions aren't met, while AMR will FB at >=50 energy if SR & Rip are both over half of their duration (12 & 8 respectively) and looks to energy cap otherwise (should only happen for a second or two). I believe this means AMR is (slightly) greedier with its FB usage and also (slightly) energy wasteful.

If that is true, then AMR will favor crit & haste more since those directly translate to more energy & combo points, and that means a higher frequency of hitting 5 when rip is at its refresh threshold (+ rake, since it's almost always cast immediately after a finisher), and that directly translates to a higher up-time. SimC is more conservative with bleed refreshes, so their up-times are largely invariant to secondary stats and their damage is more buffed by vers & mas than crit & haste.

Or, more direct, crit & haste make feral's rotation faster, and the faster it is the more its decision tree collapses because you'll always hit the next finisher fairly quickly. AMR's rotation is the collapsed decision tree, so it'll favor stats that better transform the optimal rotation into it.

Which is better? Depends on which ordering your rotation better mimics. I don't think either is strictly (in-game) optimal, but their both relatively optimal respective to each project's goals & codebase. As much as it'll piss off the min/maxers, at this point I don't think anything within a few percent is worth fretting over since that's well within the spec's nominal variation in Legion and you won't get enough boss pulls throughout the entire xpac to detect the difference.

(*) Hard to say because their CanRefreshDot function is largely documented as (paraphrased) "trust us it works."

[Shadowsongs]

I ran some tests on your weights - it looks like you used the default iLevel settings when you ran yours (which were from 820 - 880). And your gear is already above that, so I ran new ones for your iLevel range. Use these: askmrrobot/wow/simulator/report/98ab46d39c3748a6a17511799552f6ec

Then what I do to test weights: I check the filters in the gear page to be just above the gear you'd be getting. Then I run Best in Slot - that lets the stat weights picks the best items. Then once that gear is picked, I click the 'simulate' button and sim them to see how the damage is.

AMR weights (the ones I gave you): 499,140 DPS (500 dps margin of error) askmrrobot/wow/simulator/report/891492c7bf3b48ad9cc10f68c7fee37
IV weights (as an example): 497,112 DPS askmrrobot/wow/simulator/report/66d421985cc1459a9a5da08cfc2b769d

As you can see, those are quite close (Mr. Robot is ahead by 0.5%) - so as far as playing in game, you probably wouldn't notice a difference between those 2 sets of weights.

The link I gave you for the weights ranks trinkets directly from simulations. You can also manually compare them in sims. Here's a video to show how to do that really fast: youtube/watch?v=MWV6CbgliK

thanks for the detailed response
I ran the weights that you gave me and it seems that my current sets of gear is pretty close versus each other.

[dami1337]

I ran some tests on your weights - it looks like you used the default iLevel settings when you ran yours (which were from 820 - 880). And your gear is already above that, so I ran new ones for your iLevel range. Use these: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...7511799552f6ec

Feedback: make the iLevel range somehow adjust automatically. It´s bad explained why it´s needed and creates even confusion if the 910 legendary will be now part of it or not

In general add for both "filters" as well as simulate/gearing somewhere a big help button linking to a blog post which explains for different usecases (Raid&M+ as well as low/high iLVL) each single setting. Not necessary for longterm players but needed for new players who are not fully into all wow mechanics.