Former "BM Hater" here, starting to like it!

[Trapped]

So when Legion was in the works, and all the theorycrafters were putting Marksmanship on a pedestal as the "raiding spec" of Legion, I obviously chose it as my first artifact weapon to pursue. I admittedly hated the rotation (not the spec), it felt super clunky to me, hated Sidewinders, hated the downtime. But in the end, I care about my dps in raids, so I stuck with it. Now, BM has pulled ahead on ST (which is mainly what I care about) and I finally gave in and started filling up my BM artifact. Now that I got my 3 golds, I am really noticing a difference in my numbers and I am liking it. The only fights in current content I use Marks for is Il'gynoth and Helya. Single target and high movement fights, BM is just superior.

9 years ago when I made my hunter, I made it because I thought it was cool to have pets, and its kind of nice to have them again. I don't think I've used a pet since Lone Wolf first came out several years ago.

So to all the people who claim BM is the "noob" spec, or "LOL 3-button rotation spec", all I can say is give it a try.

For the record, if 7.1.5 brings better changes to Marksmanship and/or it does more ST damage, I will probably go back to it. For the moment, I'm liking BM though!

[Darkeon]

I'm sure you are not alone in enjoying standing still with free times occurring during your rotation, either.

[Deleted]

if you do more dmg as BM then MM on 2+ target bosses you are playing MM wrong.

[Deleted]

if you do more dmg as BM then MM on 2+ target bosses you are playing MM wrong.

zenedar???

[Trapped]

if you do more dmg as BM then MM on 2+ target bosses you are playing MM wrong.

Maybe you didn't read my post, but I said BM was better on ST and high movement, and MM is better on multi-target and low movement.

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I'm sure you are not alone in enjoying standing still with free times occurring during your rotation, either.

Not 100% sure what you mean. Both specs have downtime, but Marks has way more. No?

[kamuimac]

So to all the people who claim BM is the "noob" spec, or "LOL 3-button rotation spec", all I can say is give it a try.

but it is 3 button spec -_- no matter how fun it is lol

[Darkeon]

Not 100% sure what you mean. Both specs have downtime, but Marks has way more. No?

Quite possible. You won't ever see me praise the current state of Hunters though.

[Deleted]

but it is 3 button spec -_- no matter how fun it is lol

so is mm -_- no matter how boring it is

[Darknessvamp]

Maybe you didn't read my post, but I said BM was better on ST and high movement, and MM is better on multi-target and low movement.

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Not 100% sure what you mean. Both specs have downtime, but Marks has way more. No?

The funny thing is that BM is meant to be the one that is better at Multi-Target and also does have longer downtime between doing things.

[Deleted]

Maybe you didn't read my post, but I said BM was better on ST and high movement, and MM is better on multi-target and low movement.

Only single target fight is Nythendra (talking only about mythic dif.). And even there is MM superior. The only thing where BM is better then MM is on AoE burst dmg when targets are on one spot.

[Trapped]

Quite possible. You won't ever see me praise the current state of Hunters though.

Oh I agree, Both hunter specs (No, I don't count Survival) are in terrible shape. Just saying, in my opinion, BM feels slightly better to me after playing MM 95% of the expansion, and I'm seeing better numbers on most fights.

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Only single target fight is Nythendra (talking only about mythic dif.). And even there is MM superior. The only thing where BM is better then MM is on AoE burst dmg when targets are on one spot.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1853

Sadly, you're wrong, only slightly though. Looking at 75th percentile logs for Mythic Nythendra, BM is in fact higher than MM, but only by a slight margin.

[Madh4tter]

Didn't like BM once pre-patch hit live servers but I got used to the change. It's still boring but not all specs need to be complicated (as if there is such a class on live right now).

[Aggrophobic]

Both BM and MM are crap at single target though and once you get better gear, BM falls behind MM.
MM is really good at AOE however, way better than BM.

If you care about your DPS as you said, you play MM. Untill the patch hits it's just better at everything. Sadly, it's also better at pulling evey mob in the instance so mythic+ runs might be safer as BM + it has a bit of utility left.

[Deleted]

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1853

Sadly, you're wrong, only slightly though. Looking at 75th percentile logs for Mythic Nythendra, BM is in fact higher than MM, but only by a slight margin.

looking at max percentile (which show max potencial of that spec) MM is superior to BM as i said.

[ulaire]

If you want to have fun, try SV. Maybe lower damage output but funny as Jim Carrey

[Sencha]

I can't have fun when I have 40% downtime during my rotation, waiting for my spells CD to end. Playing it feels like a chore.

[Deleted]

MM is hard on run-alot-fights , bm is easier to play while runing. But still I think BM is underpowered ,cant get close to MM's dps

[Trapped]

looking at max percentile (which show max potencial of that spec) MM is superior to BM as i said.

Max would show max potential, yes, but thats assuming best legendaries, etc. Either way, MM isn't blowing BM out of the water by any means. I usually look at 75th or 80th percentile parses, those are a little more reasonable guage of what's really better, and what's achievable.

We've also been struggling on Heroic Odyn progression (my guild doesn't do Mythic), and both Odyn and Guarm either show BM ahead or right next to MM in dps logs. BM is better than MM on H Odyn up until the 90th percentile, and up until the 80th percentile on H Guarm.

Maybe its just my item level range (875ish), but for me, BM has been better. Maybe a bit higher (Mythic) would yield different results.

[Effinhunter]

So when Legion was in the works, and all the theorycrafters were putting Marksmanship on a pedestal as the "raiding spec" of Legion, I obviously chose it as my first artifact weapon to pursue.

No. Those of us who were even considering BM were more concerned about the need to have 26 traits in BM to be competitive in the progression race for the first raid. I noted several times, and at length in my guide, that BM's main weakness was that it required at least 26 traits to be competitive in most of the fights in EN while MM required only 20. Consequently, MM was the only viable raiding spec for ranged hunters when raids first hit because of the 20-25 range of traits that people could do before Mythic+ was even a thing.

BM also suffers, as we have described previously, from the type of AoE it can do and with how the first raids did not really cater to that type of AoE. There were several raid encounters that just made BM suboptimal for the fights but MM had the right tools for it. Those were the reasons for MM being recommended over BM.


As for Mythic Nythendra being single target? How so? The point of the fight during progression is breaking people out of MC quickly before they cast Spread Infestation. The reason MM will be better for progressing guilds here is not just the single target performance, but for the ability to hold TS for a huge MC group (this happens for everyone during progression with 10+ MC'd at times) and break them out within a single cast of the MC mechanic (Spread Infestation is a 3s cast but starts a few seconds into the MC, so with MM and TS, you have the ability to nuke down the entire group with SW/MarkS combos). A single MM hunter or if you are lucky and have two MM hunters can break out a big pack and save a progression kill if TS is up (or you get lucky procs). A BM hunter will slowly whittle down the pack with cleave which is the worst kind of AoE to have in this situation.

Again, the reason we all ended up recommending MM was not because of simulated single target or even simulated AoE. It was because of the boss fights, the harder artifact grind on release, and the traits that were available on initial progression. That's it. It was not really an indictment against BM. The spec can be a lot of fun to play and definitely does high single target when CDs line up and you have 26+ traits invested.

[Tharkkun]

but it is 3 button spec -_- no matter how fun it is lol

It has exactly the same amount of buttons as MM.