Too Many Abilities

[Golden]

did they not just prune a bunch of abilities off of classes?

For the most part, no. Mainly they just took the ranged abilities that some melee specs had, made them 10y range, changed their animations, and gave them a new name. Other melee attacks were made instant or movable while channeled. Stance type abilities were removed or made passives, etc.

The only class of mine that had any abilities actually pruned was my sniper. They lost a melee attack and their droid CC. Mostly the prune was hype.

Bioware likes to pretend they are doing a bunch of stuff for the game. It's reminds me of City of Heroes where people would wait 8 months for a major patch where the main new feature was adding improved lighting to characters, lol.

[Riistov]

I much prefer it to having too few. My Shaman in wow doesn't even have totems anymore.

I get what you mean by a bit of an input delay though OP, frankly I feel its worth it for how good the character models look

[Deleted]

I thought there was an ability pruning coming? Wasn't it with the new expansion (when does that arrive btw?)? Must admit I haven't been paying any attention to SWTOR for a few months now but I'm sure I read somewhere of a pruning inbound.

There already was one. Most classes lost a few abilities. While I can understand Sages/Sorcs losing one of the two melee attacks they had, most other changes were completely irrational and poorly planned. Like removing Forms from Guardians, or taking away most of the already few long-range abilities left on Vanguards, along with their Cells. Plus the devs seem to have a need to pointlessly rename a few Guardian (but not Warrior) abilities in every expansion.

Among other things it means that due to not being able to switch into tanking stance, hybrid classes are now unable to offtank or emergency tank without respeccing entirely -- which isn't possible in combat.

Basically... outside the storyline, almost every single change in 5.0 was either pointless or utter and complete garbage. Change for the mere sake of change never works.

[Deleted]

Sadly, I have to agree.
Sadly, because in WoW they took it too far.
Have to agree because it's a complete clusterfvck in SWTOR. I last played about the time of Valkorion's death at our illustrious hands. Pretty much every class except trooper at max lvl. Every single one had a distinct feel of multiple overlapping or completely redundant skills with a bit of mercy spot for smuggler/operative. If I wanted to be the new Duke Ellington, I don't think I'd play MMOs.
There's already some nice synergies between skills, build on that and remove the clones with lest flourish. Like, say, you have 2 AoEs on an assassin tank. Leave the lightning one, scrap the saber circle. And so on.

[Dayasydal]

I agree that there are too many abilities. I main jugg tank and wow I wish I could do without some. And to be honest, I don't even have everything bound that I should.
I've had a hard time even finding a class guide (although I just stumbled upon mmo-champion, didn't realize there was more to it than WoW info).

Although on the flip side to having too many abilities, it's quite an adjustment from WoW to tanking in SWTOR where your mitigation abilities have long cool downs comparatively.

[Treeba]

I agree that there are too many abilities. I main jugg tank and wow I wish I could do without some. And to be honest, I don't even have everything bound that I should.
I've had a hard time even finding a class guide (although I just stumbled upon mmo-champion, didn't realize there was more to it than WoW info).

Although on the flip side to having too many abilities, it's quite an adjustment from WoW to tanking in SWTOR where your mitigation abilities have long cool downs comparatively.

Dulfy http://dulfy.net/

Used to have good guides. I don't know how accurate the updated ones are anymore. The game forums used to have some decent guides written by good players. A lot of those people have long since quit, so I'm not sure what's still out there.

I feel like Juggs in general have an acceptable number of abilities and situational abilities. I will say they could do without Assault (or whatever the one rage builder is called) and Vicious Slash. Unfortunately the caliber of people still playing is pretty low and many of them don't understand how/when their situational abilities are important. Most of the time "I have too many abilities" is really "I don't use/understand when to use this/these abilities so therefore this class has too many keybinds" That applies to WoW as well.

[Dayasydal]

Dulfy http://dulfy.net/

Used to have good guides. I don't know how accurate the updated ones are anymore. The game forums used to have some decent guides written by good players. A lot of those people have long since quit, so I'm not sure what's still out there.

Class Guides
Yep, I had been there. When I went there and searched on jugg, I was brought to the comment, "Where's juggernaught guide..."

I've gotten by through talking to other Juggs in game and I found a somewhat helpful video guide online as well (at least got me in the right direction with utilities and opener).

[Alvito]

There are three classic blunders:

1. Getting involved in a land war in Asia.
2. Going against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
3. Confusing having more buttons to press with depth.

Having 3-4 buttons that all do the same thing with different cooldowns does not make things harder. It just makes it more tedious and makes you press more buttons for no reason.

It does make it harder when you need to press up to 10 different attacks/cds. Depending on the mouse people use you only have so many good options for keybindings depending on the size of your hand. I use ~ to 6 z - b easily enough myself, but that can get clunky for plenty. I couldn't say how it is now, but I remember really disliking my sentinel because of all the crap they had compared to any of the other things I was playing. There are far better ways to add class challenge without making people juggle so many things just because.

[Lex Icon]

i hope atleast they stop adding more stuff... gets pretty silly when you even have rotations for defensive abilities :P
i hope they do an ability prune. most recent games i've played have had not even half of what i have on swtor and they're still fun and engaging.

[Not Againnn]

if you dont use all your abilities, you are playing the game wrong. I main a hatred sin and wind up using every single ability. if you are forgetting about abilities, you are playing the game wrong.

what this game could do with, is some /commands and macro system. having 3 diff keybinds for medpacks is really annoying. its more bloat than anything. i agree with you that there are a lot of buttons, but there is a whole keyboard to combat that.

[Pua]

if you dont use all your abilities, you are playing the game wrong.

Rubbish. There's no way to play a game wrong.

Some abilities are rotational, some are situational, some do vastly similar things, and the others are just taking up space. If you can make your life 20% easier, while shipping 2% of your potential output that nobody will ever know or care about, then that's a decent trade; and particularly if you're in the overwhelming majority of players who aren't pushing blindingly difficult content curves.

I personally find that there are too many abilities, with a particular problem being the overlap between some that fulfil the same function. It could do with being cleaned up, but probably not too brutally.

[Not Againnn]

Rubbish. There's no way to play a game wrong.

Some abilities are rotational, some are situational, some do vastly similar things, and the others are just taking up space. If you can make your life 20% easier, while shipping 2% of your potential output that nobody will ever know or care about, then that's a decent trade; and particularly if you're in the overwhelming majority of players who aren't pushing blindingly difficult content curves.

I personally find that there are too many abilities, with a particular problem being the overlap between some that fulfil the same function. It could do with being cleaned up, but probably not too brutally.

as a sin, i end up using every single one of my abilities fairly often. most people dont know that you cant taunt in pvp. if a mechanic doesnt use all of his tools, are they doing their job wrong? probably.

[Pua]

as a sin, i end up using every single one of my abilities fairly often. most people dont know that you cant taunt in pvp. if a mechanic doesnt use all of his tools, are they doing their job wrong? probably.

That's fine for you, and for a great many other players. Personally, I always thought the way taunts were incorporated into being useful for PvP was pretty clever.

But we're talking about a video game. For most people, games are about chilling out, relaxing, and having a bit of fun (with friends, if you have them in-game). As a result, there's no way to play a game "wrong". Sub-optimally or poorly? Of course, yes, absolutely.

But never wrong.

[Lodreh]

I noticed a few abilities share cooldowns... have the same cost... and one might hit slightly harder making the other two not only redundant but detrimental to use.

[Katchii]

That's fine for you, and for a great many other players. Personally, I always thought the way taunts were incorporated into being useful for PvP was pretty clever.

But we're talking about a video game. For most people, games are about chilling out, relaxing, and having a bit of fun (with friends, if you have them in-game). As a result, there's no way to play a game "wrong". Sub-optimally or poorly? Of course, yes, absolutely.

But never wrong.

I agree for the most part. It really depends on what activities you're participating in. When the goal is simply to have fun and relax, in a single player or relaxed multi player environment, where your actual performance doesn't really have an impact you're right there is not "wrong" way to do things.

However, in a more serious and focused multiplayer environment like raiding (mainly progression, but even casual raiding it's HIGHLY encourage) where your performance matters it is possible to do things "wrong."

[Chromy69]

So you really click like 50 different things in a fight? Hell to the no. I would never do that. I would go insane.

[Growel]

as a sin, i end up using every single one of my abilities fairly often. most people dont know that you cant taunt in pvp. if a mechanic doesnt use all of his tools, are they doing their job wrong? probably.

I work in the automotive industry, and so I interact with mechanics frequently. They have hundreds of tools, including some really obscure ones that don't get used that often. Some of the tools are "just in case X happens, which is once a year or w/e".

So I'm not sure that your analogy works. (I'm not saying your overall point is wrong or right.)

[Not Againnn]

I work in the automotive industry, and so I interact with mechanics frequently. They have hundreds of tools, including some really obscure ones that don't get used that often. Some of the tools are "just in case X happens, which is once a year or w/e".

So I'm not sure that your analogy works. (I'm not saying your overall point is wrong or right.)

but if you need the tool, you know you have it and use it... rather than just not using it all together, you know?

[Growel]

but if you need the tool, you know you have it and use it... rather than just not using it all together, you know?

In real life, as a mechanic, yes. You never want to have a situation where you need a tool that you don't have. (Depending on who must pay for the tool. Might be better to have the rare/expensive ones shared, as "community tools" with other mechanics.)

But in designing a video game, as entertainment, you can design away the need for rarely used tools, entirely.

[Katchii]

In real life, as a mechanic, yes. You never want to have a situation where you need a tool that you don't have. (Depending on who must pay for the tool. Might be better to have the rare/expensive ones shared, as "community tools" with other mechanics.)

But in designing a video game, as entertainment, you can design away the need for rarely used tools, entirely.

CAN being the operative word here. Doesn't mean the games actually have those rarely used abilities

The issue some MMOs have is that the number of core rotational abilities you need to bind in order to be successful or competitive take up the majority of your actually usable space. Just because you have it bound, doesn't mean it's usable, it could be on a button you can't reach easily or clickable only or whatever as opposed to hot keyed

It's like being a mechanic with a special rarely used tool, but having so many other tools that you can't find the special one in your toolbox when you need it...likely because you put all your normal every day tools in the box and not the super special rarely used one because you didn't have room for it. Pretend for the sake of the analogy that you're only allowed to have the one toolbox, because any mechanic worth their salt would have as many boxes, bags, spaces as needed for all of their tools.