Voting in US - What's the point?

[Felya]

I'm well aware that Obama won the popular vote then, but even assuming Trump had been right and Obama had not won the popular vote, it would still be the side that lost complaining, since the Republicans lost that time.

Would have been, but wasn't. Reality is better than fiction... Even in the win, is Trump complaining about fraud in him losing the popular vote? Because if you don't know, he is also bitching that the election was wrong. Just in a different, reaching to play the victim, manner.

[NineSpine]

Maybe people in blue states should stop electing politicians who support and create these federal laws mandating that red states "mooch" from the blue states. But seeing as they don't do this, I think such people don't really have a genuine problem with it and simply just want something to whine about.

You don't get it. The red states mooch because they have undue influence over the federal government. Republicans control the House by a huge margin, so they get to funnel all kinds of money towards pet projects in their districts. That's where this spending is coming from, not social security and food stamps. A huge portion of it is federal contracting and military spending that we don't need, but since these states have huge influence, they use those things to suck huge amounts of money into their states and prop up their economy because their state government is incapable of managing a stable economy legitimately. Why manage your state effectively, deal with poverty, create economic prosperity, and do all that work that may run afoul of some donors, when you can just pilfer from New York and California to make up for your failures?

[Felya]

The thing is that Republicans lose their shit and invent elaborate conspiracy theories for why the Democrat isn't the real President anyway.

Have we seen Trump's birth certificate?

[Palizangetsu]

Did you just call the wish to end slavery being done by a "vocal minority"!? Goddess help us...

Because that is fact in the beginning the wish to end slavery was a vocal minority which slowly started to swell and eventually led to the Civil War.

[NineSpine]

A president could still be impeached doesn't change the fact and whether they have or haven't doesn't mean it can't happen.

An unenforced law isn't a law. It's a piece of paper. We've had decades of profound foreign aggression without a single authorization for war.

[The Emperor]

To answer the exact question, what's the point, I would say it's the pleasure of seeing sore losers who voted Hillary that can't get over their loss and cry about how the system is undemocratic, exposing their double standarts and hypocrisy(having been outraged at the notion of Trump not accepting results aso it would threaten the peaceful transfer of power, but who went out on the streets all aggressive? That's right, those people who valued unity)
So I think it's a worthy point. Those people should never ever be allowed to have a say in politics, which is exactly what they're proving right now.
Keep them tearful threads coming, sore losers( u get it? I'm using Clinton term "sore losers" lol does it sting? I sure hope it does)

[NineSpine]

Because that is fact in the beginning the wish to end slavery was a vocal minority which slowly started to swell and eventually led to the Civil War.

The Civil War was mainly caused by a very vocal majority in the South, who were so incredibly paranoid that they seceded before the federal government even attempted to do anything to end slavery.

[Zeta333]

I know exactly why it was implemented. It's still wrong. The concern of "Those cities shouldn't get to pick" is invalid. The vote should be "the people get to pick". So only popular vote makes any sense. I'm not saying Hillary would have won, but the electoral college is a horrible system in terms of fairness. Some states, their vote counts for literally 4 times more (based on population to electoral vote ratio).

then run for the government and change it. Just becuase you dont like how it is, doesnt mean its wrong.

[NineSpine]

To answer the exact question, what's the point, I would say it's the pleasure of seeing sore losers who voted Hillary that can't get over their loss and cry about how the system is undemocratic, exposing their double standarts and hypocrisy(having been outraged at the notion of Trump not accepting results aso it would threaten the peaceful transfer of power, but who went out on the streets all aggressive? That's right, those people who valued unity)
So I think it's a worthy point. Those people should never ever be allowed to have a say in politics, which is exactly what they're proving right now.
Keep them tearful threads coming, sore losers( u get it? I'm using Clinton term "sore losers" lol does it sting? I sure hope it does)

Do you think Trump should never be allowed to have a say in politics because he said in 2012 that if someone gets the popular vote but loses, we should have a revolution?

[Zeta333]

To answer the exact question, what's the point, I would say it's the pleasure of seeing sore losers who voted Hillary that can't get over their loss and cry about how the system is undemocratic, exposing their double standarts and hypocrisy(having been outraged at the notion of Trump not accepting results aso it would threaten the peaceful transfer of power, but who went out on the streets all aggressive? That's right, those people who valued unity)
So I think it's a worthy point. Those people should never ever be allowed to have a say in politics, which is exactly what they're proving right now.
Keep them tearful threads coming, sore losers( u get it? I'm using Clinton term "sore losers" lol does it sting? I sure hope it does)

pretty much this, the people crying now wernt saying shit before clinton lost. And wouldnt be saying shit if she had won.

[NineSpine]

then run for the government and change it. Just becuase you dont like how it is, doesnt mean its wrong.

It is wrong. The government needs to be seen as legitimate in the eyes of the vast majority of people, and the electoral college is objectively a threat to that legitimacy.

[Felya]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you are saying.

It's just not what the person you quoted was arguing. He was just arguing that the person on the losing side was always the one to complain. Which, Trump was on the losing side, and was complaining when this happened, even if he was complaining about a false claim.

If that's the only thing, without anything else, then it's a bizarre statement. It's like saying any crime or wrong doing is only a problem, because people that were wronged have an issue with it. Big ol' duh, to his statement, if it's depth is that shallow.

[NineSpine]

pretty much this, the people crying now wernt saying shit before clinton lost. And wouldnt be saying shit if she had won.

It's really easy to win an argument by making up fantasy hypotheticals, isn't it?

[Jtbrig7390]

then run for the government and change it. Just becuase you dont like how it is, doesnt mean its wrong.

You can't call Yourself/Your System a democracy and have a system like the EC. The EC conflicts with that system and its no longer a democracy.

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pretty much this, the people crying now wernt saying shit before clinton lost. And wouldnt be saying shit if she had won.

I would.....

[Palizangetsu]

An unenforced law isn't a law. It's a piece of paper. We've had decades of profound foreign aggression without a single authorization for war.

You don't seem to understand the law then, Congress has backed these conflicts and funded them if Congress was also against these Wars they have the right to impeach the president. The law does not require them to do so if they agree.

[Felya]

To answer the exact question, what's the point, I would say it's the pleasure of seeing sore losers who voted Hillary that can't get over their loss and cry about how the system is undemocratic, exposing their double standarts and hypocrisy(having been outraged at the notion of Trump not accepting results aso it would threaten the peaceful transfer of power, but who went out on the streets all aggressive? That's right, those people who valued unity)
So I think it's a worthy point. Those people should never ever be allowed to have a say in politics, which is exactly what they're proving right now.
Keep them tearful threads coming, sore losers( u get it? I'm using Clinton term "sore losers" lol does it sting? I sure hope it does)

Do you know the difference between saying election is rigged against you, before a vote ever takes place and reacting after the results? One difference, is that it made Trump wrong... don't forget, Trump still claims fraud, even though he won. So, keep the tears coming for Trump as well? Is this linear?

[Zeta333]

It is wrong. The government needs to be seen as legitimate in the eyes of the vast majority of people, and the electoral college is objectively a threat to that legitimacy.

then maby a vast more majority should have showed up to show thier displeasure with trump and voted. He didnt win becuase of how many republicans voted, he won becuase of how many democrats didnt vote. No one here is to blame but democrats.

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You can't call Yourself/Your System a democracy and have a system like the EC. The EC conflicts with that system and its no longer a democracy.

No one but uninformed people say that the president is voted in democratically. Its never been said that it was.

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If she had lost the popular vote and won the electoral, I'd still be here saying it doesn't make sense, even as someone who voted for her.

Because it doesn't. It doesn't make sense that the person with more votes loses. However, if she had won both, there would be no controversy, so of course I wouldn't be here arguing it.

I also wouldn't be here arguing if Trump won both, but he did not.

she lost key states she should have won becuase 30 million voters in her OWN part didnt show up to vote that voted last election.

[bilkenter]

There is no point in voting just as there is no point in living. Life is such a shitty circle in which you eat shot vote sleep raise kids and all. Life is a pointless struggle the only thing that matters is money the more you have the bigger your achievement in life

[Palizangetsu]

The Civil War was mainly caused by a very vocal majority in the South, who were so incredibly paranoid that they seceded before the federal government even attempted to do anything to end slavery.

At that point slavery was already abolished in the North and this very vocal majority in the South was actually a minority in the country as a whole by that point.

[Shadowferal]

We don't have 1 election for president.
We have 51 of them.
Each state has their vote, and then electors, expressing the will of their state vote in the manner that their state dictates (48 of 50 are all-or-nothing), cast their votes in the 51st election, which is when the president is actually selected.

We are not a democracy (as individual states are); we are a representative republic (on the national level).

Originally, citizens only voted for electors. The electors were free to vote their conscience for president with 1st place becoming president and 2nd place becoming VP.

Then political parties were formed and screwed the pooch. Electors started putting party ahead of country, forming first in-state and then multi-state voting blocs.

Is it broken? Yes.

Would a "Top 3 preference vote" fix it? I'd like to think so but people have this amazing ability to botch things up. Especially since moneyed interests would be invested in doing just that.