Kosak has left the building

[Koryn123]

I meant that we don't need fans of either faction or any playable race, but someone who simply appreciates the good story alltogether; I didn't talk about people without any passion about the game. You said you wanted a fan of the high elves. That could and probably would go terribly wrong.

Imagine the person is also an Alliance fan and takes blood elves away from the Horde. These forums would ignite. Same would happen if all the high elves became Horde.

No, because a real fan of the story wouldn't tell a bad story just to paint their preferred group in a better light. They'd do everything they can to write a good story if they want to highlight their favorite group. A good story that doesn't demean other groups in order to build up the favored one.

If you're a real fan, you don't just want your favorite group to be the best of all everything no matter how convoluted the writing is. A real fan doesn't just look at all the flashy lights and go "oooo Khadgar and Kirin Tor is strongest mage cuz nobody else does anything like he does and can't do anything without his help, yayyyyy" A real fan respects the story, and doesn't like seeing it dragged through the mud with contradictory writing that ignores established lore solely because the writers want to paint someone as a better diplomat, or more loved or respected than they should be, with no explanation (Khadgar everywhere, Kirin Tor when Aethas licks their boots to be allowed back as a mistrusted second-class citizen rather than be respected and valued in Quel'thalas, Silver Covenant in Thas'dorah scenario where we're expected to believe that the Farstriders respect them and Vereesa enough to be her lapdogs, etc).


Personally, I wouldn't have minded the blood elves going Alliance in MoP. It would have been a very interesting new spin on their story that would be a sufficiently major enough event to give them some very detailed spotlight (like Khadgar and Dalaran get) on the level of several questlines going into what they're doing, what other characters think of it, how they're reacting, etc. Like Vereesa, or the rest of the high elves who now have no wall between they and their kin, allowing the lost sheep to return to the flock welcomed with open arms. I would love that story so much, seeing old family members reunited, working together on the same side, mending broken fences, perhaps even getting an update to Eversong Woods, Ghostlands, and possibly a phased version of Quel'danas (so the Shattered Sun vendors and the Sunwell dungeon and raid can stay). But I doubt the Silver Covenant would be allowed back, unless Lor'themar were feeling very generous and very forgiving, or Vereesa finally gave them a huge important good reason to consider her trustworthy and loyal enough to her homeland not to go on a murder spree, screaming "muh Rhonin!!!"


I don't really care much about the Horde as an entity, ever since Cata. Thrall (and Cairne) was the heart and soul of the New Horde everybody loved in WC3, embodying all its most treasured values of redemption, brotherhood, and rediscovering of their shamanistic roots so the new generation could give back to the world that their parents did so much damage to. And once Warchief Thrall became stupid-shaman-Go'el, the Horde lost all its former identity and Horde players were forced to play the violent asshats for like 4 years, with pretty much every zone outside your race's 1-20 areas' quests appealing only to those who enjoy the warmongering orc lok'tar ogar stuff. But not the cool lok'tar ogar stuff like Thrall's Horde did. The just plain stupid throw-everything-at-them-and-be-cannon-fodder type of lok'tar ogar.

Like, most questing areas passed 1-20 felt appropriate mainly just for orcs and humans. Many times, I found myself being like "why does my blood elf character care enough about this? Why is he taking part in Nazgrim's pep talk on the boat to Vashj'ir? A blood elf would be more likely to just hang back or spend their time in their cabin/hammock while waiting to arrive at the fight so they can help the Horde win and go back home to Quel'thalas."

[Friendlyimmolation]

I don't really care much about the Horde as an entity, ever since Cata. Thrall (and Cairne) was the heart and soul of the New Horde everybody loved in WC3, embodying all its most treasured values of redemption, brotherhood, and rediscovering of their shamanistic roots so the new generation could give back to the world that their parents did so much damage to. And once Warchief Thrall became stupid-shaman-Go'el, the Horde lost all its former identity and Horde players were forced to play the violent asshats for like 4 years, with pretty much every zone outside your race's 1-20 areas' quests appealing only to those who enjoy the warmongering orc lok'tar ogar stuff. But not the cool lok'tar ogar stuff like Thrall's Horde did. The just plain stupid throw-everything-at-them-and-be-cannon-fodder type of lok'tar ogar.

Like, most questing areas passed 1-20 felt appropriate mainly just for orcs and humans. Many times, I found myself being like "why does my blood elf character care enough about this? Why is he taking part in Nazgrim's pep talk on the boat to Vashj'ir? A blood elf would be more likely to just hang back or spend their time in their cabin/hammock while waiting to arrive at the fight so they can help the Horde win and go back home to Quel'thalas."

Gotta remember vengence is a big part of the Blood elves now, and they remember they friends and enemies. The Horde helped them, the Alliance sent spies, The Alliance had Garithos, and While the Horde had Garrosh, the rest of the Horde turned against him and the Alliance once again attacked them in Dalaran. If Lor'themar is anything to go by, They are more Horde then ever not because they love the Horde races, (although they have bonded alot closer than what they originally were) but because they wont lower themselves to go to the Alliance.

[Traveler Voltin]

No. It is the very essence of Warcraft. Keep your Hippie Peace Crap out of my game pls.

Have you ignored every war that wasn't alliance vs horde?

[Verdugo]

Have you ignored every war that wasn't alliance vs horde?

Those are no wars, thats an extermination. Its not a war anymore than theres a war between men and maggots. Or dragons and wolves. Or men riding dragons, throwing wolves at maggots.

[beanman12345]

I loved his passion for the lore, but the lore just isn't, well, good. It's so full of plot holes, retcons, overall poor character development etc. Sadly I don't see this being fixed just because he moved his stuff to a desk down the hall to another team.

[Traveler Voltin]

Those are no wars, thats an extermination. Its not a war anymore than theres a war between men and maggots. Or dragons and wolves. Or men riding dragons, throwing wolves at maggots.

They are wars. Every expansion has had a war

[Erbel]

Kosak gets way too much singular hate for what is obviously a collaborative effort. Yea he said and did some stupid shit but it's not even remotely entire his fault, especially when MMORPG's are a subpar method of storytelling. That said I won't shed any tears over his departure and the fact that he created Wrathion is enough for me to be glad he's gone. Now maybe the little shit can go the way of Med'an and technically be considered canon but never actually show up.

[Zandalariprelate]

Kosak gets way too much singular hate for what is obviously a collaborative effort. Yea he said and did some stupid shit but it's not even remotely entire his fault, especially when MMORPG's are a subpar method of storytelling. That said I won't shed any tears over his departure and the fact that he created Wrathion is enough for me to be glad he's gone. Now maybe the little shit can go the way of Med'an and technically be considered canon but never actually show up.

Wrathion is gonna be or killed or give his titan powers to Odyn or Ra if he comes back in this expansion

[Koryn123]

Kosak gets way too much singular hate for what is obviously a collaborative effort. Yea he said and did some stupid shit but it's not even remotely entire his fault, especially when MMORPG's are a subpar method of storytelling. That said I won't shed any tears over his departure and the fact that he created Wrathion is enough for me to be glad he's gone. Now maybe the little shit can go the way of Med'an and technically be considered canon but never actually show up.

I was about to chime in that Med'an was finally declared non-canon, but just looked it up and found out it was only him being Guardian that was declared non-canon. So he still exists. Darnit.

[deviantcultist]

We need a blood/high elf fan on the team. Someone who knows their lore in and out so they can write them consistently, not like the Silver Covenant who flip flop every time they appear in the story.

And the blood elf-fan-ness so that they can stop the blood elves from being made to look like idiots compared to the humans every chance they get in order to make the humans look better at everything by comparison.

Blood elves are supposed to be good at magic, but they always suck so the Kirin Tor can look cooler.

Basically, Nelf lore and spotlight got sacrificed in 7.1 so that Belves can once again look fabulous. The Suramar/Legion story was supposed to be about the ancient Elven lore and how it developed from ancient times to modern ones. Instead of showing Nelf development, Belves suddenly join the show and lead everything to look as if the proud part of the Elves is exclusively inherited by them.

All it took was one patch to justify the Belf fanboyism that was all over the place. How does that imply lack of Belf love from the devs?

[Koryn123]

Basically, Nelf lore and spotlight got sacrificed in 7.1 so that Belves can once again look fabulous. The Suramar/Legion story was supposed to be about the ancient Elven lore and how it developed from ancient times to modern ones. Instead of showing Nelf development, Belves suddenly join the show and lead everything to look as if the proud part of the Elves is exclusively inherited by them.

All it took was one patch to justify the Belf fanboyism that was all over the place. How does that imply lack of Belf love from the devs?

Because the 7.1 Suramar stuff has just as much night elf as it does blood elf. The people of Suramar are more like the blood elves than they are the night elves, at least the ones Tyrande leads, who rejected everything about the lifestyle and culture Suramar holds onto, while the high/blood elven culture strove to emulate and improve upon it.

And Khadgar jumping into the mix to steal the spotlight from the elven groups when he already had Karazhan's story under his belt is what implies lack of Belf love from the devs.

As well as making them all fall into Elisande's trap, with Khadgar the 46-year old human mage being the only one who can save them, including the hundreds or thousands of year-old elven magi.


That makes Rommath, the greatest of all blood elf magi, Grand Magister of Quel'thalas (who is still frozen in the time trap if I'm not mistaken, as I believe Khadgar and the player only rescue Tyrande and Liadrin), look like a complete and total ass. We never see anyone shown to be good at arcane/fire/frost magic except human magi, and villains. And other races can't do anything by themselves.

Look at the arcane sanctum in WoD for example. You'd think the Horde garrison commander would have the blood elf magi in their group take care of it. But nope. Instead, they need to go halfway across the continent to the Kirin Tor base to ask the Kirin Tor (who only a few months previously showed that they have no problem hunting the Horde and enjoying killing them, taking sadistic pleasure in thinking about them being killed by Saurok on the Isle of Thunder) to connect their sanctum to the ley lines, because blood elves must really suck at magic if the Horde are willing to ask the not even remotely trustworthy or nonpartisan Kirin Tor for help over the blood elves.

The only blood elf magic lore in WoD was where you have to kill a blood elf mage who got in over her head while trying to impress her teacher and took over a mine of crystal monsters, the massive power driving her crazy so she needs to be put down.

[ravenmoon]

I was about to chime in that Med'an was finally declared non-canon, but just looked it up and found out it was only him being Guardian that was declared non-canon. So he still exists. Darnit.

lol. not getting rid of him that easily.
I admit I have no particular love or like for Me'dan - he sort off feels like pandering to political correctness - "every one represented" - kinda feel.. but again i feel the hate is disportionately bad. He's bad, not THAT bad.

[Friendlyimmolation]

That makes Rommath, the greatest of all blood elf magi, Grand Magister of Quel'thalas (who is still frozen in the time trap if I'm not mistaken, as I believe Khadgar and the player only rescue Tyrande and Liadrin), look like a complete and total ass. We never see anyone shown to be good at arcane/fire/frost magic except human magi, and villains. And other races can't do anything by themselves.

Pretty sure Rommath is ok, ill have to log on some time to double check.

[Deleted]

Kossak probably contributed more than any WoW developer.

it is ashame the newbies of WoW that joined in WoD/Legion and pretend to of been here since vanilla do not credit him like he deserves.

[Lady Dragonheart]

This spells bad news for Jaina and Sylvanas alike.

[Koryn123]

lol. not getting rid of him that easily.
I admit I have no particular love or like for Me'dan - he sort off feels like pandering to political correctness - "every one represented" - kinda feel.. but again i feel the hate is disportionately bad. He's bad, not THAT bad.

Eh, it doesn't give me that impression so much as it does the Superman syndrome. Where they're like "My power is to have ALL the powers! I'm so cool! I'm way stronger than the other characters!" He is (or was, before his Guardian-ness was declared non-canon) pretty much flawless and the strongest (non-villain) character ever.

Medivh had Sargeras inside him for his flaw, and Aegwynn had a massive ego as hers (she already had a pretty big one, but Sargeras' avatar's spirit hiding inside her made it bigger). Med'an is just the perfect spellcaster with complete mastery over every single school of magic.

I don't enjoy characters like he and Superman. I find them obnoxious because they're so perfect.