Fake Hate Crimes - Two wrongs make a right?

[Revik]

Well, Obama and Hillary aren't trying to get elected (anymore in Hillary's case). But every time I see thread like these, I feel like I have to remind people that we're discussing some ultra-tiny fraction of a really, really huge base. Something like 40% of the country is solidly on "the left", and 99.9999% of those on the left aren't doing stupid shit like this.

To be fair neither is Trump. He is already elected and he already made a statement. The sitting president Obama should be stepping out and denouncing such acts as well. In fact I believe the sitting president has MORE of an obligation to denounce these kinds of acts than the president-elect. Agree or Disagree?

[Annoying]

To be fair neither is Trump. He is already elected and he already made a statement. The sitting president Obama should be stepping out and denouncing such acts as well. In fact I believe the sitting president has MORE of an obligation to denounce these kinds of acts than the president-elect. Agree or Disagree?

From a standpoint of purely what they ought to do, yes, absolutely. From what they actually do, not really -- lame duck means Obama doesn't have to impress anyone for campaign contributions or sway voters to his positions. I can't even find any examples of a former POTUS taking up any other office, so he doesn't have to play the "give everyone what they want to hear so I get elected again" game.

[Revik]

From a standpoint of purely what they ought to do, yes, absolutely. From what they actually do, not really -- lame duck means Obama doesn't have to impress anyone for campaign contributions or sway voters to his positions. I can't even find any examples of a former POTUS taking up any other office, so he doesn't have to play the "give everyone what they want to hear so I get elected again" game.

If true which it probably is, is a god damn shame.

[zenkai]

It's sad that people are doing this, like the guy who faked a Trump car being destroyed.

[Tijuana]

Here is a curious thing I heard this morning. Many of the hate crimes and vandalism that were reported most recently turned out to be hoaxes.

http://twitchy.com/twitchys-3831/201...is-supporters/

This is dated news now but did not recall ever seeing a thread on this. If there was one I apologize in advance.

Do you considered these to be isolated incidents and just overreactions from the enlightened left?

What I think this calls into question is how many of these hoaxes people are taking to be real bigotry being perpetrated by actual Trump supporters. How many of us have already been affected by such reports.

The number of actual police reports filed shows no change in behavior. The number of charges filed shows no change in behavior. This is what I keep trying to tell those on the left: these false accusations are blowing up in your face, and you have been reduced to a regional party from it. How much further do you want to take this dishonest extremism?

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I never quite understood that sheer amount of cognitive dissonance people stoop to to actually claim that hate crimes aren't a thing and that racism and bigotry aren't a major part of US culture.

Because they aren't.

The "big rally" that recently got press for two weeks only had 250 racist assholes show up. And this was at a national event in DC. These guys traveled to get there.

If the KKK is such a big deal, how come you never hear anything about them? Why are they not marching? Why are they not on TV spewing their hate? Seriously, where the fuck even are they?

[Edge-]

The number of actual police reports shows no change in behavior. The number of charges filed shows no change in behavior. This is what I keep trying to tell those on the left: these false accusations are blowing up in your face, and you have been reduced to a regional party from it. How much further do you want to take this dishonest extremism?

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2014/tables/table-1
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2015/...abledatadecpdf

Except that the FBI data shows a slight increase in the number of incidents, offenses, victims, and known offenders between 2014 and 2015. We'll see what happens in 2016, but saying there is no change in behavior is factually incorrect.

[Tijuana]

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2014/tables/table-1
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2015/...abledatadecpdf

Except that the FBI data shows a slight increase in the number of incidents, offenses, victims, and known offenders between 2014 and 2015. We'll see what happens in 2016, but saying there is no change in behavior is factually incorrect.

The topic is about a rise in hate crimes since Trump was elected, and how nearly all the high profile ones have turned out to be hoaxes. I fail to see the relevance of 2014 data showing slight increases or whatever.

[Annoying]

The number of actual police reports filed shows no change in behavior. The number of charges filed shows no change in behavior. This is what I keep trying to tell those on the left: these false accusations are blowing up in your face, and you have been reduced to a regional party from it. How much further do you want to take this dishonest extremism?

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Because they aren't.

The "big rally" that recently got press for two weeks only had 250 racist assholes show up. And this was at a national event in DC. These guys traveled to get there.

If the KKK is such a big deal, how come you never hear anything about them? Why are they not marching? Why are they not on TV spewing their hate? Seriously, where the fuck even are they?

So 7 fake hate crimes is enough to reduce one party "to a regional party", but 250 racist assholes isn't enough for the other side? Let's be real, neither of those things represents pretty much the entirety of both parties, and neither of those things is somehow "reducing" either party to something else. Extremists are going to extremist, and the average person who is part of either party isn't responsible for what a handful of idiots do.

[Tijuana]

So 7 fake hate crimes is enough to reduce one party "to a regional party", but 250 racist assholes isn't enough for the other side? Let's be real, neither of those things represents pretty much the entirety of both parties, and neither of those things is somehow "reducing" either party to something else. Extremists are going to extremist, and the average person who is part of either party isn't responsible for what a handful of idiots do.

No, MATH is what reduces the Democrat party to regional party status. They have a third of their congressional power coming from 3 states, and they hold the least amount of power since 1920, in various governmental bodies.

But, to your primary point, ABSOLUTELY both sides are full of crap on all this. That is my whole point. It's completely illogical to surmise: One, that the same people who voted for Obama are now racist because they voted for Trump. And Two, that Trumps victory somehow inspired non-racists to join in on the bigotry.

[Edge-]

The topic is about a rise in hate crimes since Trump was elected, and how nearly all the high profile ones have turned out to be hoaxes. I fail to see the relevance of 2014 data showing slight increases or whatever.

2015, actually, the year in which Trump announced his candidacy. We don't have 2016 data yet, so nobody can comment on it as a whole, but we do have, for example, the NYPD reporting a big uptick in the reports of bias crimes in the month since Trump won.

Also, hey, if nothing else last year saw the highest number of hate crimes against Muslims since 9/11! http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...fbi-data-show/

MAGA

[Tijuana]

2015, actually, the year in which Trump announced his candidacy. We don't have 2016 data yet, so nobody can comment on it as a whole, but we do have, for example, the NYPD reporting a big uptick in the reports of bias crimes in the month since Trump won.

Also, hey, if nothing else last year saw the highest number of hate crimes against Muslims since 9/11! http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...fbi-data-show/

MAGA

I genuinely feel bad for the 35 extra Muslims who were assaulted and claimed it was bigotry based. I just don't see that equates to the narrative that is being pushed, that all hell is breaking loose and it's the fault of Trump somehow.

I mean, Trump isn't the only one putting Muslims in the news. Let's be fair, it's been quite a year or two for Jihad.

[Stacyrect]

2015, actually, the year in which Trump announced his candidacy. We don't have 2016 data yet, so nobody can comment on it as a whole, but we do have, for example, the NYPD reporting a big uptick in the reports of bias crimes in the month since Trump won.

Also, hey, if nothing else last year saw the highest number of hate crimes against Muslims since 9/11! http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...fbi-data-show/

MAGA

Unless it's hate crimes being committed in the thousands, it would be a negligible statistic. It would be just like saying Obama's political message was responsible for an increase of anti muslim attacks. Heres this chart that proves attacks went up when he took office http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...fbi-data-show/

[ati87]

Unless it's hate crimes being committed in the thousands, it would be a negligible statistic. It would be just like saying Obama's political message was responsible for an increase of anti muslim attacks. Heres this chart that proves attacks went up when he took office http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...fbi-data-show/

So next time for argument sake a ''girl is raped or murdered by by XYZ'' I can also use this line of thinking? It's just 1 person, enough people get raped or murdered in the US that 1 more person is just ''negligible statistic'' .

Or are you lot going to have a field day and make things look a thousand time worse then they really are and just be selective with any statistics you use?

[Stacyrect]

So next time for argument sake a ''girl is raped or murdered by by XYZ'' I can also use this line of thinking? It's just 1 person, enough people get raped or murdered in the US that 1 more person is just ''negligible statistic'' .

Or are you lot going to have a field day and make things look a thousand time worse then they really are and just be selective with any statistics you use?

When people are suggesting that a particular person, place, thing is responsible for a rise in hate crime, yes 1 person is a negligible statistic to prove that point. The actual rise reported is less then the variance for statistical error.

It's not being selective, it's being rational.

[Oktoberfest]

Read em and weep lefty's

http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/

[ati87]

When people are suggesting that a particular person, place, thing is responsible for a rise in hate crime, yes 1 person is a negligible statistic to prove that point. The actual rise reported is less then the variance for statistical error.

It's not being selective, it's being rational.

But it isn't 1 person it is allot more...

And trump gets blamed because he spends days ranting on twitter for the smallest things and he spends 1 min after 2 weeks of pounding denouncing these racist groups.

[Stacyrect]

But it isn't 1 person it is allot more...

And trump gets blamed because he spends days ranting on twitter for the smallest things and he spends 1 min after 2 weeks of pounding denouncing these racist groups.

True. Given the data presented we can assume the same bias by saying when Obama was elected their was a rise in anti muslim crime, so Obama is responsible. Correlation does not mean causation.

[Rudkobing]

Fake Hate Crimes - Two wrongs make a right?

Two wrongs don't make a right. Never have. Never will. It only leads to death, destruction, and mayhem everywhere. Don't bastardize that quote to fit an agenda, OP. :-|

[ati87]

True. Given the data presented we can assume the same bias by saying when Obama was elected their was a rise in anti muslim crime, so Obama is responsible. Correlation does not mean causation.

Don't try to act smart, whenever right wingers do it they all fail horribly (like now).

Obama has never tries to appeal to people's fear of the others
Trump has done nothing but

One person empowers them the other one doesn't

Correlation does equal causation in this case, or if you don't want to believe me why not just google the crap that comes out of the white-supremacist/alt right because they disagree with you

[PosPosPos]

It is true as long as both sides acknowledge that the existence happens on both ends of the spectrum and neither have some moral high horse from which to claim that it is only on your side. Similar to your signature.

Which is funny and ironic because every time a thread like this pops up the first few pages are mostly occupied by right leaning posters starting the flame war with the left, and the midway through the thread the left leaning posters decide they can't ignore the flamebait and respond.

It's true that it takes two hands to clap, but it only takes one to slap. If the right stops flamebaiting, the left would happily go about their business instead of labeling the right as -ists and whatnot.