Guarm Mythic - easier or harder?

[Glynny]

Thoughts on the changes? Not a lot of guilds have killed it so I'm wondering if the changes made it easier? Our attempts we wiped on 2% so it should go down tonight but this is what has changed:

- We're losing a DPS (around 5% of our damage)
- Gaining a tank that does around 3.5% of the groups damage
- Boss health reduced by 5%.

All in all I think the fight will be easier.

What are your thoughts?

[Tojara]

If you take a baseline of about 450k DPS (which is roughly the requirement per DPS on that fight, once you subtract healer DPS etc), you can safely assume that a tank who knows how to push buttons can generally do at least half of that, sometimes more depending on trinket setup, legendary items and class of course.

IDK about the exact math but your guess looks right. It's not a lot but I imagine that overall it's probably 1-2% nerf to the boss overall, which is a decent amount considering the boss in question.

If you're already two tanking it, it will feel like a huge nerf though.

Also there are things you can do with two tanks that make certain aspects of the fight a little bit easier, which may or may not indirectly decrease the DPS requirement as well.

[flzk]

its mainly for guilds who dont have access to a guardian or warrior tank, i know it has been done with brm but there are still guilds without those classes

[Quotey]

its going to be a fucking hassle turning the boss for the breath i tell you that

[redfella]

Not if you have a WeakAura tracking boss energy and Flashing Fangs cast, making a huge alarm sound everytime you have a few seconds to turn it. :P

[Deleted]

Our guild chat had a petty little fight in guild about will it maker it easier or harder for us, we've been Guardian solo-tanking it. But now we're going to have a Guardian Druid and Warrior Prot. Some of us argued, because of Prot Warrior DPS is quite high sometimes, we'd say that he's pretty much just lower than a DPS position that was there previously.

[Elmurda]

PreNerf: 1.680.000.000 Health
DPS needed (overall): 7.000.000 RaidDPS

AfterNerf: 1.596.000.000 Health
DPS needed (overall): 6650000 RaidDPS


Tank doing: ~220k
Healer (combined): ~75k


PreNerf (1Tank, 4Healer) every DD has to do ~447k ((1.680.000.000 - (220000*240+75000*240))/15/240)
AfterNerf (2 Tanks, 4Healer) every DD has to do ~438k ((1.596.000.000 - (2*220000*240+75000*240))/14/240)


its easier.

[Deleted]

Tough as hell with 7.1.5

[Deleted]

PreNerf: 1.680.000.000 Health
DPS needed (overall): 7.000.000 RaidDPS

AfterNerf: 1.596.000.000 Health
DPS needed (overall): 6650000 RaidDPS


Tank doing: ~220k
Healer (combined): ~75k


PreNerf (1Tank, 4Healer) every DD has to do ~447k ((1.680.000.000 - (220000*240+75000*240))/15/240)
AfterNerf (2 Tanks, 4Healer) every DD has to do ~438k ((1.596.000.000 - (2*220000*240+75000*240))/14/240)


its easier.

You're forgetting all the class nerfs coming in 7.1.5. We'll see when the patch releases if it'll be easier or harder!

[Elmurda]

You're forgetting all the class nerfs coming in 7.1.5. We'll see when the patch releases if it'll be easier or harder!

til 7.1.5 it is easier. It was a hotfix. It is live.

[Axelond]

Harder because the risk of getting sniped by melee swing is way higher. In terms of dps it's probably easier.

[Brokeback]

Might be slightly easier on the enrage, but enrage on its own isn't the 'real' issue for most guilds when solo tanking. It's not losing too many people through foams/multi-headed/spits that you still have the DPS to kill him.

An extra tank will screw up comps that are melee heavy in terms of who soaks which breaths/foams. This also increases the risk that someone gets gibbed by multiheaded.

Also, for guilds running a solid solo tank like guardian, it was probably easier for healers to just focus on a guardian tank instead of healing both a guardian and another tank that's weaker at this (e.g., pally). Extra healer attention on the new tank takes away from people getting flame spit after breath. On the other hand, it makes it easier for guilds that didn't have access to a good tank for this.

[Ebalina]

Might be slightly easier on the enrage, but enrage on its own isn't the 'real' issue for most guilds when solo tanking. It's not losing too many people through foams/multi-headed/spits that you still have the DPS to kill him.

An extra tank will screw up comps that are melee heavy in terms of who soaks which breaths/foams. This also increases the risk that someone gets gibbed by multiheaded.

Also, for guilds running a solid solo tank like guardian, it was probably easier for healers to just focus on a guardian tank instead of healing both a guardian and another tank that's weaker at this (e.g., pally). Extra healer attention on the new tank takes away from people getting flame spit after breath. On the other hand, it makes it easier for guilds that didn't have access to a good tank for this.

"Having a good tank"
You mean having durid or warrior i suppose cause it really isn't hard to press cd's when needed.

[Deleted]

The healing requirement changed as well. From 1 target needing constant high heals to 2 + flame licks.

The dps requirement may have gone down yes but an element of reprogression does come in.

Our guild has now killed it twice, I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

[Deleted]

Based on my guilds reclear it's so much easier now.

Less risk of multiheaded taking a melee who cut corners/wanders.
Tank healing is spread and they didn't dip nearly as low/often as the single bear tank did.
Healers pretty much don't have to dps can focus all their time on the healing/debuffs.
Apart from flamelicks it's pretty safe if you already know the mechanics.

[Piwielle]

Harder because the risk of getting sniped by melee swing is way higher. In terms of dps it's probably easier.

You have 2 tanks now. The risk of getting hit by multi headed as a DPS is like 10 times lower.

[PosPosPos]

Harder because the risk of getting sniped by melee swing is way higher. In terms of dps it's probably easier.

Uh what? It's basically heroic with 2 tanks.

[Halobob87]

Way easier, and this nerf is pretty stupid imho. Helya is one of the hardest boss they ever made (exp if your comp is shitty). I highly doubt that we will see more then 100 kills before nigthold relase.

[Meiffert]

Might be slightly easier on the enrage, but enrage on its own isn't the 'real' issue for most guilds when solo tanking. It's not losing too many people through foams/multi-headed/spits that you still have the DPS to kill him.

An extra tank will screw up comps that are melee heavy in terms of who soaks which breaths/foams. This also increases the risk that someone gets gibbed by multiheaded.

Also, for guilds running a solid solo tank like guardian, it was probably easier for healers to just focus on a guardian tank instead of healing both a guardian and another tank that's weaker at this (e.g., pally). Extra healer attention on the new tank takes away from people getting flame spit after breath. On the other hand, it makes it easier for guilds that didn't have access to a good tank for this.

Sorry, but you are wrong on both accounts.

How can it be more dangerous with multiheaded? That's the very reason to run two tanks. With one tank you could get too close (moving too soon to soak breath or moving away a bit late etc.) Now there is always a second tank right on top of the first one so even if you move close as a dps, you are still not getting hit.

Healing two tanks taking moderate amounts of damage is much easier (and also very common on most fights) than healing one who is constantly dropping from 100 % to 20 and needing to be topped in 2 seconds before the next autoattack.


Solotanking it was never easier in the sense of dealing with the mechanics, guilds only did it because before the 35th trait it was somewhat hard to meet the enrage timer and an extra dps instead of a tank would bring maybe ~3 % dps increase.
For guilds who will progress on it later (likely with the 5 % dps trait), I would recommend to 2tank it even without this change.