DPS requirement for mythic+

[Nolyn37]

Hi, I'm a frequent reader and have a small question, for which I couldn't find an answer in this Forum or over at Reddit.

The situation:
My wife and I are in a rather casual guild which we stopped raiding with some weeks ago. We don't really like pugs (for raids especially) and figured we could try some mythic+.
We easily cleared up to +6 and got stuck there the id before the last. Last id we cleared up to +6 with a good tank from our guild and got a +8 HoV stone, which we then cleared with two more guild mates just for the chest.
This id we want to start +6 seriously and try how much farther we can get, but we are not sure whether our guild mates are actually a good choice.

The question:
We are aware that gameplay and group coordination matter much more in higher mythic+, but how much DPS should our mates do to be viable for 6 and up to get upgraded keys?
I couldn't find a table or anything that suggests some numbers, so I ask here.

Btw, I heal as a Monk and had little problems until now and my wife is a Ret with very good DPS single target, 300k and up for itemlevel around 860 and nice AoE.

Thanks in advance,

Cheers Nolyn

[Deleted]

250k tank, 400k dps is fine for up to 9 with 2-3 chests and also 10 in time.

[Temp name]

~300k dps? You shouldn't have any issues with 7 or 8 in time if you have decent affixes. Well, if your tank is decent and knows how to pull, that is. If you pug I wouldn't aim above 6, or 7 if you get really good affixes.

[chronia]

while looking at dps helps, i reckon it helps more to try and setup a fixed group if M+ is going to be a real target for you guys. Try get a tank and 2 DPS players that you know that play reasonably well or better and that you can run with reguarly (pref ones that profit from your toolkit and expand the parties toolkit, for example aoe stuns / interrupts / cd's), get some voice comms going if you don't already and just start running M+ runs.

You can shave off much more time of runs in the long run by just practising them as a team, getting to know the pulls, certain skips, preferred routes for mobcount and learning the affixes, making less and less mistakes then by adding a "random" player that does 50k more dps then the DPS you have now. Also learning wit a fixed group ussually also means gearing up together and with that the needed DPS should come eventually.

Having a fixed group can also lead to fun stuff like doing a weekly Kara run with Nightbane speed run and stuff, without the need to try and pug that should you be interested in that.

[Feelnoobskill]

Nolyn37
It mostly depends.
If we are talking about dps through all dungeon (u count from the start till last boss kill) it differs depending on the dungeon.
If we are talking about single target dps (bosses) it also differs depending on the level of the key. For example if u take like +3 key, dps will be much higher than on +11 with tyrranical. Simply because on +3 u kill bosses without even using your main bursts 2 times while on tyrranical +11 bosses have aproximetely 200M HP and even with BL your fight goes more than 2-3minutes (so u can use your burst cd 2 times during the fight).

Most of myth+ overall dps for whole dungeon for DD shouldnt be less that 300k (except for CoS mb, i dunno). If it is less, than your dd guys have low aoe for sure.
As for single target dps its not that essencial except for tyranical keys.
But if u can handle like 300k dps for 5 minutes it mean u can easily finish +10, because 300k dps in 5 minutes in solo target is enough requirment to kill ursoc myth (well he has 2nd target bear but not long).

Hope that helped you.

[Nolyn37]

Thank you all, it helped a lot to get some insight on the numbers!

at chronia: Building a fixed group for mythic+/kara is our main goal, but it's not easy in our guild. Hopefully we will get there. =)

[Ealyssa]

It's really dependent to what dungeon, what level and especially what affixes you have. The more you can pack without dying, the more overall DPS your group will do. But mass pulls depend on your group ability and the week's affixes.

Every error will also cost you quite some seconds on the timer. And every seconds matter. Each time someone screw up. By agroing a fresh mob/boss to the nearly dead pack with bolstering. Breaking CC or agroing a patrol on a teeming week. Tanks leting mobs in sanguine too much. It will eat you seconds, which will cost you a chest or even deplete your key.

Gameplay errors are were you can improve your mythic+ groups, way more than just asking for "MOAR DIPS". Obviously DPS matter. But as long as your team is focused and don't do shit. You'll be fine.
Until you start hiting your gear limit. Where pushing need even more focus, path optimisation, fully buffed groups (food/flask, etc.), poting pretty much everything. But IMO that shouldn't happen until 8-10, even for a "casual" group (also depend what's your definition of "casual". If it means low play time or just "bad at the game". I consider myself a casual, still easily do +12 for the weekly chest)

So yeah my advice would be : stay focused. Push until you feel comfortable, farm a bit the level before it becomes too hard for gear. And when everyone get some upgrade, push even more. Be aware of the affixes (some weeks will be harder than others), try learning what is the usual optimal path for each dungeon.

250k tank, 400k dps is fine for up to 9 with 2-3 chests and also 10 in time.

Just don't listen to that guy. That's more 12+ levels... A 250k DPS single target tank clear +10 easily.

[Meiffert]

Just don't listen to that guy. That's more 12+ levels... A 250k DPS single target tank clear +10 easily.

But he didn't mention anything about single target.
I assumed that was an average over the whole instance, which sounds reasonable for 2-3 chesting up to 9.

[Deleted]

Just don't listen to that guy. That's more 12+ levels... A 250k DPS single target tank clear +10 easily.

What? Who said singletarget? Of course I meant average for the whole instance, including trashpacks (where you can easily burst out 1M DPS from time to time), downtimes for walking/running and bosses.

But he didn't mention anything about single target.
I assumed that was an average over the whole instance, which sounds reasonable for 2-3 chesting up to 9.

exactly, that's what she meant.

[Fiftyonred]

250k tank, 400k dps is fine for up to 9 with 2-3 chests and also 10 in time.

Here we go again.

Do not listen to these people. We completed in time +11 DHT and Vaults with boss dps average of 380k.

Second, the trash dps is more important, where we at the time had around 500-600k dps as we were running with 2x Mutilate rogues and a boomkin.

Do the packs right, interupt, move, kite, stun etc. Is much more important than flat numbers.

[Deleted]

Here we go again.

Do not listen to these people. We completed in time +11 DHT and Vaults with boss dps average of 380k.

Second, the trash dps is more important, where we at the time had around 500-600k dps as we were running with 2x Mutilate rogues and a boomkin.

Do the packs right, interupt, move, kite, stun etc. Is much more important than flat numbers.

380k is narrowed down to 400k, that's called rounding. 11 is on the same level as 10, it's virtually the same (so is 12). There are huge gaps on 4, 7 and 10 only. So you basically are telling: 400k is toooooo much, use 400k instead. Derpderp.

[Fiftyonred]

380k is narrowed down to 400k, that's called rounding. 11 is on the same level as 10, it's virtually the same (so is 12). There are huge gaps on 4, 7 and 10 only. So you basically are telling: 400k is toooooo much, use 400k instead. Derpderp.

Do you even do reading? He asked about 6+ where you stated 400k I am saying thats insane, as 380k gets you through 11+.

Hi, I'm a frequent reader and have a small question, for which I couldn't find an answer in this Forum or over at Reddit.
The question:
We are aware that gameplay and group coordination matter much more in higher mythic+, but how much DPS should our mates do to be viable for 6 and up to get upgraded keys?
Cheers Nolyn

Learn
To
Read

[Deleted]

Do you even do reading? He asked about 6+ where you stated 400k I am saying thats insane, as 380k gets you through 11+.



Learn
To
Read

He also told this

This id we want to start +6 seriously and try how much farther we can get, but we are not sure whether our guild mates are actually a good choice.

I did provide information for this case, told it's for 2-3 chesting 9s and clearing 10s. So tell me again who needs to learn reading. I also told 380k is gibberish, that's 400k. You can approx DPS to 200k, 250k, 300k, 350k, 400k, 450k, etc. There is virtually noone going to M+ below 200k (except tanks). You should aim higher so you can still finish when you do a mistake when you start. If you perform perfectly you may even be able to 3 chest 9s with 300k dps, who knows?

But these numbers are what I have seen doing about 100s of random runs. DPS about 400k gets 2 chests very easily, 3 chests most of the time. For farming that is what you want: Get the highest possible M+ you can easily do 3 chest runs. I also stated you can classify M+ to groups, but I can specify it for you:

Faceroll: Heroics, M+0
Very Easy: M+2 to M+3
Easy: M+4 to M+6
Medium: M+7 to M+9
Challenging: M+10 to M+14
Hard: +15 up

Some affixes may fuck you harder, some may even try to rape you, some are a joke. Some are a joke for you and hard for others. Volcanic for example fucks ranges and is a joke for meelee/tank. The other way round for sanguine. Overflowing fucks priests and is a joke for druids. etc etc.

[Fiftyonred]

He also told this

I did provide information for this case, told it's for 2-3 chesting 9s and clearing 10s. So tell me again who needs to learn reading. I also told 380k is gibberish, that's 400k. You can approx DPS to 200k, 250k, 300k, 350k, 400k, 450k, etc. There is virtually noone going to M+ below 200k (except tanks). You should aim higher so you can still finish when you do a mistake when you start. If you perform perfectly you may even be able to 3 chest 9s with 300k dps, who knows?

But these numbers are what I have seen doing about 100s of random runs. DPS about 400k gets 2 chests very easily, 3 chests most of the time. For farming that is what you want: Get the highest possible M+ you can easily do 3 chest runs. I also stated you can classify M+ to groups, but I can specify it for you:

Faceroll: Heroics, M+0
Very Easy: M+2 to M+3
Easy: M+4 to M+6
Medium: M+7 to M+9
Challenging: M+10 to M+14
Hard: +15 up

Some affixes may fuck you harder, some may even try to rape you, some are a joke. Some are a joke for you and hard for others. Volcanic for example fucks ranges and is a joke for meelee/tank. The other way round for sanguine. Overflowing fucks priests and is a joke for druids. etc etc.

Guess santa arrived early with a whole sack of excuses for you. Whatever dude, keep arguing.

[Deleted]

Sad how some people mix up excuses and explanations if they are not able to comprehend. Also that's not arguing, that's trying to explain something to you, since you did not understand it from the beginning. Sorry for trying to help the intelectual challenged people by providing more specific information. I may have confused your insults with a cry for knowledge. Fun fact: Where I come from santa visits on December 6th, Christuskid comes on December 24th, so Santa may be late, not early.

[Yhcti]

I'm 848 on my Havoc DH and comfortably pull out 2-5m on trash and 400-700 on bosses. have only done up to m7, gutted.

[Deleted]

I'm 848 on my Havoc DH and comfortably pull out 2-5m on trash and 400-700 on bosses. have only done up to m7, gutted.

It all depends on affix and the amount of trash a tank can pick up. You cant say you easily pull out 5m on trash when its bolster and u can only pull 3-4 at a time due to annoying mobs like peltzers, on the other hand if u pull all trash + boss in maw of souls, hell yea its easy.
Theres not a 1 answer to whats needed - as on tyrannical you might need a shit ton of single target - on volcanic u might want good single target but might better not have classes like marks or boomies due to movement being mandatory. And so on and so on

Theres several classes that are very versatile though in all affix and height of m+ - mainly hunters, DH's, ww,s etc which shine everywhere.

And to OP:

Atm - above 350k overall dps i would considered "ok": below that would rather not group as it is. Personally am between 450-600k overall up till around +12 so far as BM hunt.

[Yhcti]

^ yeah ok true, on an average pack its a sustainable 700k->1.5m, bigger burst packs its 4m+, single target I can burst around 800-1m with chaos blades, it's fairly consistent.. my friend did a +7 on his ww monk and overall did 719k

[Ealyssa]

380k is narrowed down to 400k, that's called rounding. 11 is on the same level as 10, it's virtually the same (so is 12). There are huge gaps on 4, 7 and 10 only. So you basically are telling: 400k is toooooo much, use 400k instead. Derpderp.

Please just stop. You pulled numbers with no sense out of your ass and were proven wrong.

11 is on the same level as 10, it's virtually the same (so is 12)

At least we know for sure you are clueless about M+ with statements like these. Thanks for clarifying.

[Deulon]

If you can't sustain 250k+ dps you shouldn't be doing mythic+.