Ohio passes 'heartbeat' abortion bill

[AzazeltheRuthless]

There is a concept in the United States called Separation of church and state. Our founding fathers did not want any religion taking over and imposing their backwards views on the rest of society.

Separation of church and state simply states that the federal or state government can not force you to practice religion, setup a religion of their own, or make any favorable proclamation towards one religion over another. They have a Lemon Test to determine if a law is violating the Separation. Which typically abortion laws do pass.

[Berengil]

"I have an idea to stop stupid people from being in the civilisation!"

"Let's Sterilize everyone but the stupid people!"

My stance is more " I'm not leaving anyone behind after I die for the stupid people to bother, and I suggest no one else does either."

[AzazeltheRuthless]

Yes, but the majority isn't supposed to be able to hold civil rights hostage either. One of the important functions of government is to protect the rights of the minority. As we believe in freedom of religion, a simple majority should not be able to use what are fundamentally religious beliefs to restrict an individual's authority over their own body.

A simple majority doesn't get somebody elected. State Election are pure populist vote, if a Governor wins...it means he won by the majority of the state. If they elect a fundamentalist catholic, who is against abortion, gay marriage, yada yada yada. It means the majority of that states population supported his views.

[mvaliz]

Can't you basically get all the way to the six week limit while reasonably unaware that you're even pregnant if you aren't expecting it?

Was going to say, most women don't even realize until they miss their next period... and that could be up to four weeks if they wait a week after their normal flow cycle to be sure...

[Espe]

Separation of church and state simply states that the federal or state government can not force you to practice religion, setup a religion of their own, or make any favorable proclamation towards one religion over another.

a.k.a enshrining one religion or another into law. Glad we agree.

[Halyon]

There is a logical reason to be against abortion. But, it isn't based on religion. That's why most people are against it. They think the fetus has a soul. Some even believe a fertilized egg has a soul.

...souls are based in religion mate. There's no scientific proof of souls. At all.

[Espe]

My thinking god is fake does not = me attempting to force my values on others. It's almost like you would have to abandon all critical thinking to make that leap.

Almost

[Templar 331]

Separation of church and state simply states that the federal or state government can not force you to practice religion, setup a religion of their own, or make any favorable proclamation towards one religion over another. They have a Lemon Test to determine if a law is violating the Separation. Which typically abortion laws do pass.

I find it sad that the Affordable Care Act ("Obamacare") was ruled against by the Supreme Court in that it couldn't force employers to pay for insurance plans that contain birth control because of the "company's faith" but it's perfectly acceptable for a law against abortion to be passed based on faith/belief in a soul.

Separation of Church and State indeed......

[PassingBy]

You have to be seriously retarded or very very unlucky to not know that you are pregnant by 6 weeks.
You have to be seriously retarded or very very unlucky to actually get an unwanted pregnancy now with all the birth control options available to you.
You have a wide variety of birth control available, you have an opportunity to make an early abortion, or just take the "plan B" pill, thus getting rid of the baby before it is an actual living being, but rather a set of cells.

The "abortion rights" activists seem, for whatever reason, hell bent on the "right" to kill the "unwanted" child at any freaking time through the pregnancy, and on top of that they want the state to finance the murders of the children.

This position is as crazy as the people that say that contraception is a sin, and early abortions are a murder.

People need to start taking responsibility for their actions. And actually use their freaking heads to foresee the consequences of those actions.
You don't get pregnant out of the blue without having a clue that you might be pregnant.
You need to actually do several steps before you do.

[Orbitus]

A simple majority doesn't get somebody elected. State Election are pure populist vote, if a Governor wins...it means he won by the majority of the state. If they elect a fundamentalist catholic, who is against abortion, gay marriage, yada yada yada. It means the majority of that states population supported his views.

But if his views directly contradict the constitution, he/she cannot enact those views. Which is why this law should be and will be struck down.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

My thinking god is fake does not = me attempting to force my values on others. It's almost like you would have to abandon all critical thinking to make that leap.

No, but you're not understanding the argument being made. If a Governor/Senator/Rep is elected, that is through populist vote. Governor's aren't elected on a electoral system like the President. They use the majority vote, so if a Catholic is elected as the representative because he represents majority of people's views. Then you're the minority in your state, so therefore...you aren't the norm.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

But if his views directly contradict the constitution, he/she cannot enact those views. Which is why this law should be and will be struck down.

It doesn't though. People don't understand what separation of church or state is. As long as he doesn't write a law saying, the state of Ohio's official religion is Catholicis....or the state of Ohio is starting it's own church. Even in the reverse, Religion is Banned in Ohio...... That's violation of the separation of church and state.

Saying abortion is illegal or legal...the argument can be made, that either side has no religious affiliation. As long as the argument can be made, it isn't in violation.

[Draco-Onis]

No, but you're not understanding the argument being made. If a Governor/Senator/Rep is elected, that is through populist vote. Governor's aren't elected on a electoral system like the President. They use the majority vote, so if a Catholic is elected as the representative because he represents majority of people's views. Then you're the minority in your state, so therefore...you aren't the norm.

So if a gay man gets elected does that mean all straight people are a minority and you aren't the norm?

[NoRest4Wicked]

Whew, good thing my wife got her procedure done last month.

[manypillars]

Unless they can overturn Roe v. Wade or medical technology makes some kind if insane leap, this is unconstitutional. The standard that states are allowed to use to restrict is viability, and at 6 weeks it's not viable outside the woman. Are they banking on Trump getting 2 or more nominations in by the time this hits the Supreme Court? They know he can't just fire justices, right?

For reference: the size of a fetus at 6 weeks is about the size of a lentil. For anyone who thinks human development starts with a tiny, perfect homunculus, this is a lentil sized nightmare fish.

Whew, good thing my wife got her procedure done last month.

Get yours too just to be sure. As it is, Catholic hospitals refuse to perform the procedures so you may need to plan on traveling to get it done if you don't have a local provider that's not part of the Catholic hospital system.

[Orbitus]

You have to be seriously retarded or very very unlucky to not know that you are pregnant by 8 weeks.
You have to be seriously retarded or very very unlucky to actually get an unwanted pregnancy now with all the birth control options available to you.
You have a wide variety of birth control available, you have an opportunity to make an early abortion, or just take the "plan B" pill, thus getting rid of the baby before it is an actual living being, but rather a set of cells.

The "abortion rights" activists seem, for whatever reason, hell bent on the "right" to kill the "unwanted" child at any freaking time through the pregnancy, and on top of that they want the state to finance the murders of the children.

This position is as crazy as the people that say that contraception is a sin, and early abortions are a murder.

People need to start taking responsibility for their actions. And actually use their freaking heads to foresee the consequences of those actions.
You don't get pregnant out of the blue without having a clue that you might be pregnant.
You need to actually do several steps before you do.

And by this law, at that 8 weeks you try to get an abortion, you would be breaking the law.
All forms of birth control have failure rates. Condoms, IUDs, the pill, the shot, the patch. All have failure rates. Even the "plan B" pill has a fucking failure rate of 5%. You would know this if you took a proper sex ed course

[PassingBy]

To be clear, getting an abortion is taking responsibility for their actions.

No it isn't.
Getting an abortion is letting the doctor and the state to take your responsibility from you after you fuck up.

[Espe]

<snipped garbage>

And yet it happens all the time.

Why should young girls and women suffer and die because of fairytales and willful ignorance? Why should young girls and women have their right to bodily autonomy stripped from them? Why should you get to decide what is best medically for anyone but yourself?

And just fyi, we're not talking about children here, we're talking about loose clumps of cells that are often rejected by the body itself at some point before viability for any number of reasons.

[Halyon]

To be clear, getting an abortion is taking responsibility for their actions.

Just not one he likes. THINK OF HIS FEELZ!

[AzazeltheRuthless]

A simple plurality gets someone elected at the state level, but that's not the point. The government is setup to prevent people from getting into power and whimsically stripping rights. That is one of its functions, so the mere fact that maybe someone is the odd one out in some random state is irrelevant. There are still certain things that are protected by the government.

Except that isn't true either. It's called coat tailing. Typically, if a Governor is elected to State Legislature. Reps and Senators, who support his view are elected into aligning positions and make it easy for him to pass laws. Hence why you see states usually pass laws so much easier than federal government (mainly due to a lot of states having drastically varying views on things, hence why people say in a lot of situation state should decide.)