Ohio passes 'heartbeat' abortion bill

[Jtbrig7390]

It is no longer just her body. If it was, then she would be the one that died in the abortion.

Its her body from the moment of birth to the moment of death and even after. You don't have a right to tell a woman what she can do with her body.

Having a abortion is a constitutional right and any laws stopping it is unconstitutional. Those laws will also be shot down in a instant.

[Orbitus]

It is almost as if you are so threatened by my opinion, you do not realize in my very first reply to this thread I actually supported abortion only in the event of provable rape. This also applies to the health of a mother, directly corresponding to the health of the baby.

If the mother won't live, it's not good. However, she should be placed on a list & if she becomes pregnant again the man & woman will both pay some hefty fines.

Wait wait wait..... You want to FINE a couple, most likely to the point of bankruptcy if they happen to have a child with a birth defect of sorts? Do you know how idiotic this sounds? Not only can you not regulate if they can or cannot have children, per the due process clause, but this is probably the most idiotic fucking argument I have ever seen.

[Taneras]

It's hilarious that conservatives wonder why liberals call this a "war on women" (GUYS WE JUST WANT TO PROTECT DA BABIES) when they use slut shaming (if she didn't want a baby she shouldn't have slept with 500 men!) and guilt tripping (let's follow this woman who just came out of the abortion clinic and scream "MURDERER" over and over at her!) as arguments against abortion.

Your avatar is very accurate...

If you're of the perspective that human life is created at conception, then demanding more self accountability for the decisions that led to the conception of that child is understandable.

[Tennis]

Pretty horrible if you ask me. Hopefully this gets vetoed. If I was a woman in that state, id be blowing up the phone lines.

I'm not sure what you think calling anyone will do.

[PassingBy]

Human life isn't valuable and the last thing we should be doing is popping out a bunch of babies just for the hell of it, many of whom will be born to people ill-equipped to deal with them.

The whole modern civilization is built around the assumption that human life is precious and valuable.
That is why murder is considered one of the worst crimes that you can commit, rather than a way to reduce the amount of people overpopulating the world.

As for people ill equipped to deal with children - it is a fair point.

That is why reducing the amount of abortions is not the final goal if you ask me.
It is a complex issue, and as every complex issue it doesn't have a simple solution.

And that is another beef I have with the anti abortion crowd.

Since putting restrictions on the abortions is, from my point of view, a good thing. Reducing the amount of abortions, from my point of view, is also a good thing.
But the logical way to do that apart from legislation are some logical steps, which don't seem to sit so well with the anti abortion crowd:
1. Birth control should be affordable and easily obtainable.
2. Sex. ed (this differs from country to country, but some children, and to my horror some adults have no idea about birth control, STDs, or have some really weird understanding of it).
3. Psychological support for potential parents and/or single mothers explaining that abortion is not the only option.
4. Properly working adoption system and social services.
etc.

You can't be anti abortion and anti sex. ed. at the same time.
Since no sex ed means more stupid knocked up girls, and more stupid knocked up girls means more abortions.

You can't be anti abortion and anti additional support for potential unfit parents for the same reason.

And so on.

[nextormento]

I personally care about abortion not becoming a free-for-all

Ah! so it was about drawing lines after all.
We can do that without exploiting the autonomy angle just fine.

[Orbitus]

This is why the bills are passing, and more are coming. Trolling is not good for you.

And as fast as they are passing, they are being struck down by district and supreme courts. So again, your argument is invalid.

[Deleted]

It should include the option to have an abortion later if it was rape or incest (ugh).

But if it was consentful, yeah no need to kill your baby.

Great idea, you know what this causes? Child abuse. There's enough studies about it that the future of unwanted children generally don't end up in a good position in life, 60% of them end up being trapped in the foster system and only 30% eventually finds a loving home, 10% ends up receiving all kinds of abuse by their parents.

[Wells]

The whole modern civilization is built around the assumption that human life is precious and valuable.

Even women.

[Taneras]

I mean, if the idea of helping them deal with medical expenses, supplies, bills, and be able to come back to work. is worse then a dip in your pay check then that's your prerogative.

also call me skeptical about the intentions of republicans in congress.

It's easy to be charitable with other peoples money. How much have you given to this cause?

[Orbitus]

It's hilarious that conservatives wonder why liberals call this a "war on women" (GUYS WE JUST WANT TO PROTECT DA BABIES) when they use slut shaming (if she didn't want a baby she shouldn't have slept with 500 men!) and guilt tripping (let's follow this woman who just came out of the abortion clinic and scream "MURDERER" over and over at her!) as arguments against abortion.

But when those babies are born, they don't want to take care of them with welfare. Because if you take away the option of abortion, there will literally be another hundreds of thousands of new mouths to feed and of course we can't have them suckling off the government tit right?

[Jtbrig7390]

The whole modern civilization is built around the assumption that human life is precious and valuable.

So your against the death penalty then right? If all life is precious and valuable then you must be ok with forcing a woman who got raped to have the child as well....

You don't get to pick and chose. Ether you are all in or not. Also if all life is precious then you are ok with ur tax's taking care of these unwanted kids right?

[Wells]

It's easy to be charitable with other peoples money. How much have you given to this cause?

I've worked as a volunteer escort at PP several times.

Do me! Do me! Do I get to say that pro-life politicians are full of shit?

[Taneras]

I've worked as a volunteer escort at PP several times.

Do me! Do me! Do I get to say that pro-life politicians are full of shit?

You get to read about me telling you that the topic of conversation was maternity pay.

[Wells]

You get to read about me telling you that the topic of conversation was maternity pay.

You can understand the mix up.

[Crissi]

You get to read about me telling you that the topic of conversation was maternity pay.

One would think maternity pay would be good long term, because it encourages well educated, steady people to breed. Right now, people rather put off having kids so they can be stable economically, resulting in lowering of child births and the only way to keep the populaiton steady is through immigration, which is often by lower income people.

so...short temr pain for long term gain?

[Taneras]

You can understand the mix up.

Yes, I do recognize your name.

[Elegiac]

You get to read about me telling you that the topic of conversation was maternity pay.

I'll field this one.

The social benefits of parental leave in helping to better equip people to give children the necessary care they need to become productive members of society outweigh whatever costs you as a business owner incur as a result.

Don't like it? Tough shit. If you cannot meet the minimum standards of a responsible business owner then you should not own a business.

[Sky High]

It's easy to be charitable with other peoples money. How much have you given to this cause?

it's your money, but it's going to give an employee time to recover and adjust themselves. far be it for me to appeal to your sympathy. what cause? there are several.

[Taneras]

One would think maternity pay would be good long term, because it encourages well educated, steady people to breed.

Does it? It'd be interesting to see before and after statistics from countries that already do this. Intuitively I don't see how it'd have much of an effect. Children are still a huge cost, throughout their lives.

Right now, people rather put off having kids so they can be stable economically, resulting in lowering of child births and the only way to keep the population steady is through immigration...

America isn't dependent on immigration to keep a steady population. And unabashed immigration is a large factor in our economy doing so poorly.

- - - Updated - - -

The social benefits of parental leave in helping to better equip people to give children the necessary care they need to become productive members of society outweigh whatever costs you as a business owner incur as a result.

So just because social benefits outweigh the negatives we should do it (In your own mind, of course)?

Imagine the social benefits that could be gotten from Bill Gates wealth...