Secret CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump

[TZucchini]

So Russia swayed Clinton voters to vote Trump by releasing emails from the DNC? Is this your claim?

No, that's not what I said at all. I actually didn't make a claim, I asked a question.

But to address your point, I believe the release of information by Wikileaks had a minor impact on the election results. The information released was fairly mild. It didn't uncover anything illegal, but it did feed into the hands of Republican rhetoric that painted Hillary as a crooked career politician.

The information was also selective and out of context. So the American people didn't have the full story behind the emails, nor the context to make accurate judgments. It's precisely how the whole Pizzagate conspiracy theory blew up.

[Kellhound]

I've been saying that since the start of the conversation which you obviously didn't bother to read.
Also i am not here to argue if you guys can SEAD or not. We all know you can. What i am saying and how this conversation started is mrs. Clinton's no fly zone proposal. I argued that such thing would require , (as its was said in the congressional hearing) most probably a HOT war with the Russians, as you would have to directly attack their bases, airfields, ships and planes.

And i continued saying that i am somewhat relieved that the American people didn't give her the opportunity to do such thing because it might had gone out of hand. From the other hand Trump needs to chill with Iran and China. (This are in short all my arguments in this thread so far)

No Ulmi, you started by just saying the US never shot down Soviet/Russian fighters or attacked SAM sites manned by them, a very broad swath that I called you on and now you have back peddled and narrowed it down. Also, you have crowed about the US' inability to deal with Russian SAMs endlessly, so its nice to see you finally concede we can deal with them. A no-fly zone would have required no more of a hot war than Korea or Nam against Russia. Desirable? No. WWIII? Again, no. Syria is to Russia what North Korea was to the USSR. Clinton would never had been able to get a no fly zone anyway, politically impossible.

As for Trump, China needed the bitch slap, and they need a few more.

[vellius5]

No, that's not what I said at all. I actually didn't make a claim, I asked a question.

But to address your point, I believe the release of information by Wikileaks had a minor impact on the election results. The information released was fairly mild. It didn't uncover anything illegal, but it did feed into the hands of Republican rhetoric that painted Hillary as a crooked career politician.

The information was also selective and out of context. So the American people didn't have the full story behind the emails, nor the context to make accurate judgments. It's precisely how the whole Pizzagate conspiracy theory blew up.

the leaks were single-handedly responsible for giving rise to the false narrative that the dnc conspired to screw bernie sanders out of the nomination, thus poisoning the independent voter well in a way that people /still/ reference to this day. between that and the republicans' incessant attacks on clinton's credibility and the media incessantly barking about emails instead of covering her platform in a more substantive way, i think it's fair to say that while the leaks may not have single-handedly cost her the election, they certainly had a more than minor role to play in damaging her odds by transforming this election into a competition between two equally poor choices, in the public perception, which simply wasn't the case.

[lockedout]

No, that's not what I said at all. I actually didn't make a claim, I asked a question.

But to address your point, I believe the release of information by Wikileaks had a minor impact on the election results. The information released was fairly mild. It didn't uncover anything illegal, but it did feed into the hands of Republican rhetoric that painted Hillary as a crooked career politician.

The information was also selective and out of context. So the American people didn't have the full story behind the emails, nor the context to make accurate judgments. It's precisely how the whole Pizzagate conspiracy theory blew up.

Do you think Hillary voters were swayed to vote Trump due to the emails released?

[TZucchini]

Do you think Hillary voters were swayed to vote Trump due to the emails released?

I'm not sure what you mean by "Hillary voters". Those people would, by default, vote for Hillary.

I do think the hacked emails had some effect on the decision of many people to vote for someone other than Hillary.

[Bighud44]

One quick concern I have with this is, while what she did was wrong, Trump supporters also seemingly have no problem with Flynn who was not charged when doing practically the same thing, and also cheered Petraeus when he was a consideration when he was actually convicted of what Hillary and Flynn were both accused of.

What she did was wrong, but the double standards are just ridiculous.

Again wrong. Petraeus was not convicted of having classified material on an unsecured server. They in no way are the same thing. He was convicted for divulging something classified to someone who had the clearance, but not the need to know on a secured classified network. The women he gave it was and still is cleared to the level of what he showed her, she just didnt have the need to know it with what she was doing. As for Flynn he wasn't convicted nor charged in an federal court. There was an investigation by the Army and they found that he had mishandled it. If you havent served you dont know that there is no burden of proof when a superior investigates you. Basically if you dont go to court marshall, there doesnt have to be proof. You get a NJP (Non-judicial punishment) or reprimand, which is what he got.