"What is The Left willing to give up on?"

[Deleted]

There is nothing to "give up". We are not on a ideology bazaar.

The alt right should give up propaganda including fake news, being anti-democratic, xenophobic and hateful for everything that doesnt share their opinion.

If the desinformation movement is going to start to use democratic means of politics, they are surely going to convince people. But as far as i see it now, they will lose every single vote from the protesters once they ever have to become establishment, as the protest voters cant be adressed by right ideas, but only by ideology that adresses the neo liberalism consequences.

Trump shows where this ends. In making everything even more worse.

[twiddler]

Whatever it is, I think we can all agree that liberals should give up on political correctness or it will trigger the right to boycott their businesses as the NFL has learned.

[Dezerte]

I think identity politics are a distraction, not because I disagree with them but because they detract from the core struggle of the modern left - the class struggle (i.e. poor vs rich). I think it's better to focus on that struggle instead, as I believe that identity politics will resolve itself anyway as a result of winning ground in the class struggle. There is some dissatisfaction with the Social Democrats having become too complacent, coupled with the need to compromise with more left-leaning parties in order to form a coalition. I think we may see a resurgence of the left within the next decade or two, depending on how the rise of the "alt-right" goes.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

"What is The Left willing to give up, to compromise on, to change about its internal culture and beliefs?"

"

Compromise needs to be done on both sides for it to work. I'm not saying that the Left can't do better than it has... but The Right has spent the last 8 years refusing to compromise on anything.

[Deleted]

Whatever it is, I think we can all agree that liberals should give up on political correctness or it will trigger the right to boycott their businesses as the NFL has learned.

I actually give a shit about the right. They are a dishonest minority that forgot what it means to be human.

I cant respect people that hate people only because of religion or skin color. I cant respect people who hate democracy and the fact that there are a lot of different ideas and not just one.

[Dhrizzle]

Normally I post articles for discussion, but today I'm going to do something different: I'm just going to ask a question and see what comes back

The question is:

"What is The Left willing to give up, to compromise on, to change about its internal culture and beliefs?"

By that I mean, what are the negotiable beliefs that can be compromised on to bring the left back towards the middle where democracies will be more willing to trust and vote for Democrats/etc?

Some possible themes and areas:

- Abortion
- Reproductive rights
- Gay marriage
- Gender theory
- Political correctness
- Social welfare
- Cross-sectional feminism
- Climate change
- Obamacare
- Positive discrimination
- Capitalism vs socialism
- Censorship
- etc

A simple statement like "I think Democrats should give up on this area"

Pretty much everything in that list has been embraced by the right to one degree or another in the UK in order for them to move towards the centre (as long as you replace "Obamacare" with "healthcare" and depending on what definition of "censorship" you're going for.) I get the feeling the same would happen in the US if the religion didn't still have such a tight relationship with politics.

[Stormspellz]

Normally I post articles for discussion, but today I'm going to do something different: I'm just going to ask a question and see what comes back

The question is:

"What is The Left willing to give up, to compromise on, to change about its internal culture and beliefs?"

By that I mean, what are the negotiable beliefs that can be compromised on to bring the left back towards the middle where democracies will be more willing to trust and vote for Democrats/etc?

Some possible themes and areas:

- Abortion
- Reproductive rights
- Gay marriage
- Gender theory
- Political correctness
- Social welfare
- Cross-sectional feminism
- Climate change
- Obamacare
- Positive discrimination
- Capitalism vs socialism
- Censorship
- etc

A simple statement like "I think Democrats should give up on this area"

half of these things dont' exist, as "liberal" or "left" policies in any form or fashion

[Dhrizzle]

I have to say the thing that really cracks me up about that list (and as an alt-right meme in general) is the objection to intersectional (or cross-sectional?) feminism. What exactly is wrong with the idea that not all women face the same issues, and that race, wealth and other factors can also play large parts?

[Endus]

Normally I post articles for discussion, but today I'm going to do something different: I'm just going to ask a question and see what comes back

The question is:

"What is The Left willing to give up, to compromise on, to change about its internal culture and beliefs?"

By that I mean, what are the negotiable beliefs that can be compromised on to bring the left back towards the middle where democracies will be more willing to trust and vote for Democrats/etc?

Some possible themes and areas:

- Abortion
- Reproductive rights
- Gay marriage
- Gender theory
- Political correctness
- Social welfare
- Cross-sectional feminism
- Climate change
- Obamacare
- Positive discrimination
- Capitalism vs socialism
- Censorship
- etc

A simple statement like "I think Democrats should give up on this area"

This is a ridiculous list.

These elements;
- Abortion
- Reproductive rights
- Gay marriage
are nothing more than straight-up human rights. They shouldn't be left- or right-wing issues, in the first place.

This one;
- Climate change
is literally just straight-up science, with zero ideological basis on either side; if your particular outlook is anti-facts, I guess, it could be seen as an "issue".

This;
- Capitalism vs socialism
is neither left nor right, nor even a valid question, since every Western economy is a form of mixed economy, with both capitalist and socialist principles incorporated.

These three;
- Gender theory
- Political correctness
- Cross-sectional feminism
seem to be non-issues; I have no idea what you could mean by "gender theory" other than "genders, like, exist and stuff". Political correctness basically boils down to "maybe don't be a deliberate asshole to people's faces". And cross-sectional feminism is just "people can be more than just one thing", which is as close to a truism as you can get.

This;
- Obamacare
shouldn't even be in the list, but if you changed it to "nationalized universal health care", then the answer becomes "why do right-wing types oppose a more cost-efficient and health-effective health care system?"

This leaves us with
- Social welfare
which is a given, unless you literally want to let people starve in the streets because fuck poor people for being poor.

- Positive discrimination
Which, if you're referring to affirmative action, is both a silly term to use that doesn't capture what's going on, and misses what the issue with "discrimination" fundamentally is.

And;
- Censorship
which I see much more call for coming from the right-wing, for the most part. Here's a tip; private entities denying you a privately-owned soapbox is not "censorship". People expressing their own freedom to speak out in response to your speech is not "censorship". Being called mean names because you said things peoples don't like is not "censorship".

These are all pretty much just "not things", or "not partisan things", or "fundamental rights that shouldn't be compromised on". If you want to talk compromise, we can talk about things like exactly how much military spending is "enough", whether the current level of social welfare provision is adequate or not (since all evidence suggests it's lagging behind the need, not overspending), and so forth. Compromise does not involve giving up on base values, and it's telling as all hell that you'd suggest it should.

[Deleted]

- Censorship
which I see much more call for coming from the right-wing, for the most part. Here's a tip; private entities denying you a privately-owned soapbox is not "censorship". People expressing their own freedom to speak out in response to your speech is not "censorship". Being called mean names because you said things peoples don't like is not "censorship".

I gotta bite this part a bit. As far as I know, when anything privately owned becomes monopolised, or at least vastly dominates other enterprises, in most modern countries the government steps in. I consider facebook, twitter and all those one of such things (and apparently left-wing does so aswell, given outcry about 'fake news' or whatever). It might not be reflected in actual statistics right now, because a lot of pre-internet people are still alive, but it doesn't take a scientist to realise a bit about near future and how powerful social media actually are.

Therefore I expect governments to step into them just as into any other privately owned whatevers to defend your speech, whatever it is. Stepping into privately owned things is actually pretty modern thing to do.

And just in case, I'm not right-wing or whatever in that matter.

[Elegiac]

I'm willing to give up on compromise with the right, and pretending the Republicans are out to do anything but run the state into the ground.

[Cthulhu 2020]

But bringing the left back closer to center would make them more left.

[Kuntantee]

which left? left is a set of different ideologies.

[satimy]

The left wing in America is more divided than they would like the believe. The Bernie people hate Hilary people more than Trump people in a lot of cases because they are false prophets

[Elegiac]

The left wing in America is more divided than they would like the believe. The Bernie people hate Hilary people more than Trump people in a lot of cases because they are false prophets

You wanting to believe something is the case does not, in fact, make it true.

But hey, we're in for at least two years of unfettered Republican rule. I can't wait to see how badly you'll fuck up when the next Katrina happens, or when the next market correction happens. Ultimately, perhaps this episode is necessary to expose just how fully incompetent the GOP is when it comes to government.

Those who can govern, govern. Those who can't, become Republican.

[Krille]

We've got something called the feminist party next to the left party. Both have their gender agendas but the feminist party does it on crack. So the left where i'm from is mostly about making private organisations of our welfare society into state owned again. Like schools and lower levels of hospital care. They also want to raise taxes on the rich. Nowhere do they talk about capitalism/socialism in it's blunt meaning. Most of our left leaning parties have realized capitalism is the way to go, they just want to regulate it more.

As for the theories that supposedly belong to the left, i'd gladly throw away gender theory, political correctness (apparently calling someone a racist bastard is considered PC), feminism as a whole (equality should be a better word) and positive discrimination. I think the left has some bright ideas, but it's too extreme at times (at least here). The right is also fucked up so i guess i have no party to vote for, but i used to vote for the left party.

[Endus]

I gotta bite this part a bit. As far as I know, when anything privately owned becomes monopolised, or at least vastly dominates other enterprises, in most modern countries the government steps in. I consider facebook, twitter and all those one of such things (and apparently left-wing does so aswell, given outcry about 'fake news' or whatever). It might not be reflected in actual statistics right now, because a lot of pre-internet people are still alive, but it doesn't take a scientist to realise a bit about near future and how powerful social media actually are.

Therefore I expect governments to step into them just as into any other privately owned whatevers to defend your speech, whatever it is. Stepping into privately owned things is actually pretty modern thing to do.

And just in case, I'm not right-wing or whatever in that matter.

Seriously, what you're talking about is A> an assault on the freedom of speech, not a defense of that same principle, and B> just plain not happening.

[Fencers]

I think positive discrimination is likely a tiresome and largely unnecessary practice given the enormous poverty gap in the US.

[Nihilanth]

The left wing in America is more divided than they would like the believe. The Bernie people hate Hilary people more than Trump people in a lot of cases because they are false prophets

After rigging the primaries against Bernie Sanders, I don't blaming them for hating that dishonest cunt.

[satimy]

You wanting to believe something is the case does not, in fact, make it true.

But hey, we're in for at least two years of unfettered Republican rule. I can't wait to see how badly you'll fuck up when the next Katrina happens, or when the next market correction happens. Ultimately, perhaps this episode is necessary to expose just how fully incompetent the GOP is when it comes to government.

Those who can govern, govern. Those who can't, become Republican.

You sounding exactly like the republican blowhards that wanted Obama to fail so that the democrats looked bad. Irony