What's going wrong here?

[Genzen Han]

Hey,

Here are the logs

Now, in regards to Odyn, I'm having trouble understanding what's going wrong. We're three-healing 10-12 people, and the healing numbers seem fine, but we somehow fall behind on damage intake and I can't figure out, other than the odd melee derpfest with Horn of Valor, why it is we're struggling.

Any ideas or insights? Anything would be appreciated.

[Deleted]

We run odyn on 12. 3 healers. And one thing i see is dps are dieing before phase 3 you need all up. To kill adds and the mini bosses to not lose all thr healers mana. Odyn on 12 has to be done perfekt or your dont have dps. Hes easyer the more people you are. Am on my phone now so il help you more after then i get home

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OK first no one dies you may need Cr on a tank.
Fas 1 .
we tank the mini bosses on the runes where the they spawn and range and healers stand in the middle on a line to the next boss so when people get targeted from sheld of light you just run there and the hole raid takes the damage.
this is before the sheld nerf now the melee camp just stand in front off the beam.


Fas 2 . tank Odyn in the middel of the room until is 4sec on Hyrja then move Odyn and burn down Hyrja before she can do a sheld of light. Move Odyn back in the middle and dps untill Hymdall is about to spawn. Repeat until fas 3

Fas 3. is just put the winds next to you unless you are melee then you run out to the sides so you dont put the twisters on the boss. save all the healing cds to fas3 so no one dies. And remeber if you going to bop or Cr the tank he dont need to run the 700k damage from the splash aoe is the hole room.

Now my personal healing tips :
I run this talents on Odyn. wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/holy/c8DM
save holy shock for Expel Light when Hyrja is up a light plus a spear can 100-0 some one.
so the 2 othere healers can have Innervate. if you have 2 druids all the time try poping then so you have then for fas 3. i pop Aura mastery on one of the big aoes odyns has so its up for fas 3. Remeber to use Sacrifice on a spear tank its helps alot on the early spears so he/she dont have to pop a cd

Hope this helps a little at least

[Boboar]

Hey,

Now, in regards to Odyn, I'm having trouble understanding what's going wrong. We're three-healing 10-12 people, and the healing numbers seem fine, but we somehow fall behind on damage intake and I can't figure out, other than the odd melee derpfest with Horn of Valor, why it is we're struggling.

Any ideas or insights? Anything would be appreciated.

I'm not an expert with the logs, but it seems to me that your dps are never getting Hymdall down before he has a chance to cast Horn of Valor. There are numerous spikes of damage in this fight that healers have to constantly contend with and it's vital that Hymdall is removed before he can finish that cast in order to keep people from getting dangerously low in between shatters.

My guild still struggles on this fight but we've gotten it down and are more consistent in getting to P3 by making it an absolute priority to switch and burn Hymdall every time. Have the melee start moving a few seconds early so they can DPS him as soon as he lands and not lose DPS uptime by having to travel to him.

We do run 3 healers for a group of around 14, so it's a slightly more favorable but still comparable size to yours. If the couple fewer dps in your comp makes it impossible to get Hymdall down in time, then I'd suggest using a healer cd for each time he does cast HoV. You have Tranq and Hymn which you should be able to cover every HoV with.

[Genzen Han]

Thanks for the tips so far.

Personally, I've been using a CD each time Horn goes out. With Tyr's, SW, and AM, I only miss a CD once every fifth splash. The other healers seem to run OoM midway through P2, which I find odd since my throughput is usually higher than theirs and I was hitting P3 with about 30% left + a pot available if needed - maybe it's just a more mana-intensive fight for those specs. Our dps does feel a bit low - we have a couple of good dpsers but then we have some weaker ones that I guess need to pick up the pace, but there's a gear disparity between those of us who farm Mythic+ and have full artifacts, and the rest, and being a kind of casual guild, it's hard to tell people to step it up without being seen as an asshole, so I always try to find extra ways to help progress.

I'll mention to the RL about positioning Odyn in the center and putting more focus on Hymdall dps. I have noticed when those adds come out (that go to the runes), we're really cutting it close each time on killing them all before the Horn goes out, some times as close as the last one dying as the attack is coming in.

Also, how does the whole 'BoP' thing work for helping the tanks with the P3 spear? We have a prot tank and I'm a holy pally, so we have two BoPs available (and, if it will work, I could maybe taunt and bubble a spear?). Not sure what or when to do this stuff to make it work, and I don't wanna BoP at the wrong time and send Odyn off to bash up the dps lol.

[grippo]

Glowing Orbs hits after 2 people are dead (giving room for wipe calls)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...27781&cutoff=2

Spear hits

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...27712&cutoff=2

These are 100% avoidable get people to avoid stuff better to save healer mana and to transistion faster.

As someone mentioned most people who complain about not being able to get the kill the boss fast enough are failing due to tank posistion, keep the boss in the middle of the room at all times when Hym or Hya spawn move boss to the rune closest to the entrance and have tank keep him there till add is dead then back in again. This allows for more dps time on all adds and boss.

Make sure healers or raid leader call out when a healer is targeted for Rune Bearer so dps can assist

Your Prot Paladin

There are some pulls looking at a 10 min one here and he uses 0 AD or GOK ? Saving GOK for last phase is okay if you are burning throught the phases but and it wont be up again but 0 AD usage in a 10 minute fight? I know some people like to save it for only when they feel they might die but imo that is a waste it is on a fairly short CD and he should be using it more often. It is not isolate to that attempt either quite a few wipes i see 0 or 1 AD usage in 8-10 minute fights.

His talents are interesting. Why us FA? Personally on a progression fight I would say BoL would be much more benefical to help with survial. Last Defender? On a fight where you only really tank one mob at a time? that is a waste talent. He should be running RP, or if you lack damage and really want to push dps then run Serp but your healers will notice it.

Also, how does the whole 'BoP' thing work for helping the tanks with the P3 spear? We have a prot tank and I'm a holy pally, so we have two BoPs available (and, if it will work, I could maybe taunt and bubble a spear?). Not sure what or when to do this stuff to make it work, and I don't wanna BoP at the wrong time and send Odyn off to bash up the dps lol.

Odyn picks his current tank for spear that person will get the spear no matter what hence why the other tank taunts so the spear tank can run away, I think the wait time is 9 seconds (i could be wrong on that) just wait a few seconds when after he targets the tank with it and just bop that person

Tell your paladin tank to

1) AD - Stand Still
2) 2 sotr stead out + extenral like a sac if not topped
3) Bop stay on boss
4) gok/stead out
5) DS - Stand still
6) AD should be up - stand still if not 2 sotr/stead out and call for a external
7)Call for extenral Bop or AD if not used on number 6

Another thing for both tanks to know is that it is after the 3rd spear the boss casts that the safe area changes each time so it is best where possible to use any abailites like immunites or cheat deaths or big CD's on that spear so you can stand still and not have to be way out of postion to get to the new area

[Genzen Han]

That's a lot of ways for the pally tank to deal with the spear; I'll pass this along to him and the RL (the other tank) and hopefully they can figure out a way to handle those spears. I, too, noticed the strange talent choices, but again, it's hard to mention it in our group without being called a dick and being told not to tell people how to play their class. The pally tank is a cool guy though, so maybe I can just direct him here. L to read the suggestions.

Does anyone see anything else I personally could do better or differently?

[Noules]

As other people have mentioned, your DPS seems pretty low for the fight. I 2-heal this in my heroic group, and we were struggling on DPS even so (my raid size is typically 10-12). More than anything else that's probably contributing to the problem. That said, we get Horn of Valor from Heimdall every time he jumps down, too, and we heal through it, so I don't think that specifically is necessarily the problem.

One big healing issue seems to be that the other healers are spending way too much mana in p1. The healers really want to be going into p2 with basically full mana, and the damage in ph1 (especially with 3 heals) should be low enough that that's very doable if the healers are careful about not overhealing. Your druid seems particularly bad about this, often going into ph2 with <60% mana.

Main thing personally is that your LoD casts look -really- low, usually less than what you're getting from a FoL (should be roughly comparable to HS per cast if not better). Are you consistently hitting RoL with LoD? Gearwise you could probably use more crit and less haste, though the impact of that is probably going to be pretty small. I also personally prefer running Divine Purpose, especially on long fights like this.

[Genzen Han]

I actually have RoL macroed to LoD. I'm not sure why it is lower than it should be; I use it any time there two or or more people in range that will benefit from it, and the only thing i can think of is that, in the first phase, there isn't much damage to heal and after each damage burst, I usually only get one LoD in because, by the time the CD is back, the damage had all been healed. I'll definitely look for more opportunities to use it next time.

Gear, it's mainly just a case of 'I'm wearing the best of what I've got'. Personally, I try to prioritise crit > vers >= mast >> haste. It just happens that this what gam the game has given me. Going after the trinket from Jim when I get home, and I double roll on Helya for her trinket too.