Many people seem to not want Capitalism or Socialism anymore.

[belleflop]

I would never consider myself an isolationist, my concern is about worker's rights, anti-competitive practices and inequality.

The margin of profit can be quite large, so much that there would be no need to raise the prices of products - this is the inequality problem, and can easily be offset by higher wages overall in the workforce with reduced pay for the top earners. This could also be achieved through taxation, and imposing limits and closing all loop-holes as to make sure that one cannot dodge taxes without consequences.

When I say anti-competitiveness I'm talking about the tremendous advantage rich international companies has over homegrown businesses, especially so in developing countries whom might not have laws and regulations in place to protect and promote homegrown innovation. It may also be hampering any kind of worker's rights movement, as alternative options would be limited.

I think you point out the root of the problem, to which a solution is actually obtainable. We see it in China/South America where workers are attempting to unionize and demand for better working conditions/pay. They haven't been successful on a large scale but you can see the efforts being made. This is how we stabilize the global economy and incentivize corporations and businesses to stay in America, but improving workers rights in developing countries. Can we as a country full of exceptionalism even consider this? I mean we think were #1 in everything when in reality we sit middle of the pack on most social and economic issues. It's hard to see the big picture when we have a giant mirror up 100% of the time telling ourselves how amazing we are.

[Deleted]

So then you should agree with this statement
it is the demand side that is causing the problems with global warming, pollution, lower wages, child labor, and weakening of worker's rights not the supply side
because all the producers are doing is giving what the demand side wants
so why are we putting all the blame on the supply side and regulating them shouldn't we be doing that to the demand side?

because the suppliers are the ones creating the demand ? that is advertisement 101

through intense subliminal manipulation everything is done to be sure the consumer is separated from the production process, that's why you have shiny pictures of smiling porkies in family farms on bacon packagings

both are to blame. the corporations creating needs and the people falling for it.
but blaming doesnt bring solutions. these are transparency, and education

[durenas]

Theres a MASSIVE difference in having rich friends to being establishment.

I suggest you do a little research into what the establishment actually is.

Could you give us some more information on what you think the establishment is? Because I would hate to do all that work only to have the goalposts mysteriously move on me.

[Kiri]

I personally think that, in the USA at least, there is a bit of schizophrenia going on. What most workers - and especially the unemployed - would rather see is the American brand of Capitalism, aka the LME, move towards that of a CME. But only in effect. Due to how deeply ingrained LME values are in the American spirit, heck, in the much touted American dream, actually moving towards a CME is really hard.
This shows a bit when you compare Trump and Obama in this regard. Obama pretty much blatantly moved more towards a CME and got blasted for it. Trump takes away some of these aspects, especially regulations, and instead puts the coordination on a sort of nationalist agenda. Buy American etc, keep jobs in the country with subsidies, tax trade. It is close to mercantilism, but no one really wants to go there and I doubt he would do it to the fullest extent.

Not that CMEs are inherently better than LMEs or vice versa. Workers just usually prefer CME like structures while entrepreneurs prefer LMEs. One promotes stability at the expense of progress, the other vice versa.

[Vyxn]

because the suppliers are the ones creating the demand ? that is advertisement 101

through intense subliminal manipulation everything is done to be sure the consumer is separated from the production process, that's why you have shiny pictures of smiling porkies in family farms on bacon packagings

both are to blame. the corporations creating needs and the people falling for it.
but blaming doesnt bring solutions. these are transparency, and education

so then it is supply side economics?

[Vyxn]

It's both, which is why sometimes we need government to do things that are good for us in the long term, but are virtually impossible to convince people to give up short term gain for.

is the demand side children that aren't capable to make their own decisions and need parenting from a government

[Deleted]

is the demand side children that aren't capable to make their own decisions and need parenting from a government

yeah you're right its that simple, really


why have intelligent debate when you can just spam conservative catchphrases

[Vyxn]

yeah you're right its that simple, really


why have intelligent debate when you can just spam conservative catchphrases

thanks for giving the liberal philosophy in a nut shell
the belief that the general public are children and aren't capable to make decisions on their own, how to live their own life the way they see fit they need parenting and dependency from liberal elitist

[Berengil]

I think a social democratic system is the best mix of the good parts of capitalism and socialism.

Pure capitalism is inhumane. Pure communism is unrealistic. Social democracy ( such as the Nordic model) is the way to go.

[Deleted]

thanks for giving the liberal philosophy in a nut shell
the belief that the general public are children and aren't capable to make decisions on their own, how to live their own life the way they see fit they need parenting and dependency from liberal elitist

the general public can only make decisions when he is not intentionally mislead by corporations

when did the prevalence of smoking started to decline ? when the government started to limit their advertisement power and marketing to children, and put a stop to the disinformation campaign regarding lung cancer.

if americans did a better job at electing their representatives they would not have to act like the gov is the absolute antechrist

[Ehrenpanzer]

The idea that everything must be as cheap as possible and available all year long is what brought us global warming, weakening of worker's rights, and child labor in third world countries.

If everyone started to consume the way western countries do the world would fucking collapse

We need to stop believing that mindless consumption is a right

No.

1. The Industrial Revolution is what primarily started the hastening of climate change, not importing t-shirts from India or cell phones from Taiwan.
2. Extreme capitalist companies, combined with shitty politicians, made making things halfway around the world in a sweat shop and then shipping them to us cheaper and more viable then keeping those jobs here.
3. The Western world has the MOST workers rights of ANYWHERE, add onto that unions that squeeze for every nickel they can and you have a good portion of the problem that leads to jobs being shipped away. Why pay Joe Dumbass a union mandated $35/hr (plus benefits, holidays, bonuses etc) in Alabama to assemble a car, when you can pay Jose Dumbass in Mexico $14/hr to do the same thing? And have Jose THRILLED to get paid so much and happy to be there And not have to deal with unions?

[Deleted]

Why pay Joe Dumbass a union mandated $35/hr (plus benefits, holidays, bonuses etc) in Alabama to assemble a car, when you can pay Jose Dumbass in Mexico $14/hr to do the same thing? And have Jose THRILLED to get paid so much and happy to be there And not have to deal with unions?

joe "dumbass"

because obviously anyone that is not a STEM startup CEO must be a "dumbass"

and if he's a dumbass he doesnt deserve to have a good quality of life and be treated like an human being

look at that starving guy from mexico, so happy to be exploited for low salary with no rights until i can lay him off when i find out the chinese will do his job for 9$/hr

you are a disgusting human being and the people that have allowed the system you describe to happen will figure in the same place that genocidal dictators in future history books

[Zmaniac17]

It seems that most rhetoric from the average worker now a days is to have mercantilism. It is seen by many as a way to protect jobs and keep the even foreigners away from them.

What Mercantilism is summed to be is economic nationalism, where the government heavily regulates trade with other nations. Mercantilism consisted of forbidding colonies to trade with other nations, monopolizing markets with staple port, banning the export of gold and silver, even for payments, forbidding, trade to be carried in foreign ships, subsidies on exports, promoting manufacturing through research or direct subsidies, limiting wages, maximizing the use of domestic resources, and restricting domestic consumption through non-tariff barriers to trade.

However, the biggest flaw of Mercantilism was its lack of efficiency. For example, due to not importing goods, you are indirectly or directly subsidizing inefficient industries. Inefficient industries tend to be produce goods at a higher cost and will therefore cost the regular person more money. Other issues include giving the government more power to regulate which would stifle competition.

Of course I could write a thesis on this, but I felt like giving a small blurb.

They want what their neighbors have. And they'll take any system that gives them that. Even if its based on the suffering of others. As long as they can't see those suffering. A lot of people are not like this. At least not entirely. But they are not very loud because they don't feel the need to be. No one is going to scream if they have what they think they need. You will only hear the ones who think they don't. The ones screaming also tend to be the least rational about how to fix their problem, as anyone who has tried to reason with an upset individual can attest.

In order for humans to survive on earth they will need to accept less and be happy with it. Because there just isn't that much here to begin with. This is the only habitable rock in the universe that we know of. It only took us about a million years to reach this point. And I expect we'd like to be around for at least another million if we want to create life more complex than ourselves and continue the legacy.

[GennGreymane]

You can tell who took a business class in high school and just stopped there by how often they talk about supply and demand.

[Ehrenpanzer]

joe "dumbass"

because obviously anyone that is not a STEM startup CEO must be a "dumbass"

and if he's a dumbass he doesnt deserve to have a good quality of life and be treated like an human being

look at that starving guy from mexico, so happy to be exploited for low salary with no rights until i can lay him off when i find out the chinese will do his job for 9$/hr

you are a disgusting human being and the people that have allowed the system you describe to happen will figure in the same place that genocidal dictators in future history books

Lol... someone needs to get laid... or have a fucking snickers, because you are a whiny bitch when you're hungry.

1) You were crying your little eyes out about workers rights. You actually think Western world people have a workers rights PROBLEM? Lemme guess, you are what, 19-24, fresh out of college, no actual life experience at all and think the power of hugs and rainbows runs shit right? Welcome to reality, it sucks... get used to it.

2) How in the everloving fuck do you get "and if he's a dumbass he doesnt deserve to have a good quality of life and be treated like an human being" from what I said? Or even that I literally think every worker is a dumbass and that it wasn't just a placeholder word... Oh... I'm sorry... are you a fucking Dumbass? Must have triggered you...

3) Lol... capitalism now = genocide.... yep.... 21 year old triggered flake here....

Get some life experience before talking kid, you just sound like a fucking moron.

[Venant]

However, the biggest flaw of Mercantilism was its lack of efficiency. For example, due to not importing goods, you are indirectly or directly subsidizing inefficient industries. Inefficient industries tend to be produce goods at a higher cost and will therefore cost the regular person more money. Other issues include giving the government more power to regulate which would stifle competition.

Of course I could write a thesis on this, but I felt like giving a small blurb.

Not dumping your waste into the local water supply or engaging in wage slavery is also inefficient. Of course you can have more efficiency if you just outsource to a country that allows you to dump waste and use slave labor. I think your argument is missing something.

[Deleted]

Lol... someone needs to get laid... or have a fucking snickers, because you are a whiny bitch when you're hungry.

1) You were crying your little eyes out about workers rights. You actually think Western world people have a workers rights PROBLEM? Lemme guess, you are what, 19-24, fresh out of college, no actual life experience at all and think the power of hugs and rainbows runs shit right? Welcome to reality, it sucks... get used to it.

2) How in the everloving fuck do you get "and if he's a dumbass he doesnt deserve to have a good quality of life and be treated like an human being" from what I said? Or even that I literally think every worker is a dumbass and that it wasn't just a placeholder word... Oh... I'm sorry... are you a fucking Dumbass? Must have triggered you...

3) Lol... capitalism now = genocide.... yep.... 21 year old triggered flake here....

Get some life experience before talking kid, you just sound like a fucking moron.

"get laid" "college kid" "no experience"

i love it when people rant about triggered sjw and then proceed to furiously insult everyone when you disagree with them or they're losing an argument

[GennGreymane]

Not dumping your waste into the local water supply or engaging in wage slavery is also inefficient. Of course you can have more efficiency if you just outsource to a country that allows you to dump waste and use slave labor. I think your argument is missing something.

Except wage slavery leads to people not buying, which is an issue in those countries outsourced to, and is an issue in the U.S, that's why you are seeing lower quality goods created in a capitalistic system. My argument is only missing something because you fell asleep after the first day of business management 101, where they spend the first 5 minutes talking about supply and demand.

[Hiricine]

Whats mostly happened is that there have always been people who don't want either, and those who want socialism or Capitalism are in an uncomfortable place where they realize the political will to realize what they want just doesn't exist, and see more benefit working within a system they don't agree with.

[Varaben]

I got through college and grad school with 2 economics classes. One was like 9 weeks long in high school and the other was 10 weeks long in undergrad and I remember none of it. So it's not like we teach people economics in the US; we shouldn't be surprised no one knows anything about it.

People think the president controls the price of gas (they can influence it through policies of course), the debt will be reduced by reducing taxes, and that wealth will trickle down to the lowest workers. All of which flies in the face of facts and data. But when you don't come to your conclusion by using data, new data won't sway you from your conclusion. And unfortunately, the US population seems to be largely unable to understand basic economics.

Another thread said that the average American (it had a source but I'm CBA to find it) had something like $16k in credit card debt. That's pretty insane.