[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Biomega]

Empire made more than ANH so I don't think it's a given TLJ should have done worse if people were satisfied with the quality of the last 2 films.

That's more distorting effects - ANH was an epic movie of hitherto unseen proportions, it was something new, and that generated hype in and of itself. To say "ESB made more money therefore it's the better movie" is misleading in that context.

But that's exactly what I'm saying. While revenue grossly correlates to popularity, that popularity isn't automatically reflective of product quality because there are so many distorting factors. Marketing, hype, maybe something special like a star casting or a scandal or whatever. There's a number of things influencing revenue results, which is why movie investment is still a bit of an uncertain animal.

[Deleted]

I'm very surprised by some of the outrage here - not because I necessarily disagree with it, but because of the naivete of these people when it comes to blockbuster movies.

This is not the era of revolutionary film making. The medium has turned into mass entertainment, and as such is oriented towards the lowest common denominator - i.e. the average, naive, not particularly bright or sophisticated moviegoer who will hand over 20 bucks for 2 hours of entertainment. As zealous as SW fans are, they're not worth 2 billion dollars in movie tickets. The bulk of that comes from people who are peripherally aware of Star Wars but mainly want to see aliens and space ships blowing up.

Do not be surprised, in any way, if the plot of a movie made for such an audience remains forever shallow, generic, and trope-laden. That's what it's designed to be.

If you think there exists nobody who could have written better sequels, you're deluding yourself. They could have made complex, rich, incredibly faceted movies - which would go over the heads of the naive audience and confuse and/or bore them. That's not a SW-specific phenomenon, it's a reality of a movie that costs HUNDREDS of millions of dollars to make and is expected to rake in BILLIONS. They don't take chances. A BigMac is a BigMac, and no tinkering with the sauce.

I challenge anyone to name me the last super-blockbuster that actually had some meat on its bones rather than the pink slime meat substitute of the fast food equivalent of movie making.

There is no naivete. That's exactly why some are outraged. What has happened to the movie industry and is now happening to the games industry too, is exactly as how Frank Zappa described the music industry changes in his time. A corporate takeover, with guys in suits telling artists what they need to do. Not to mention the social agenda pushed by Disney.

[Coombs]

I'm very surprised by some of the outrage here - not because I necessarily disagree with it, but because of the naivete of these people when it comes to blockbuster movies.

This is not the era of revolutionary film making. The medium has turned into mass entertainment, and as such is oriented towards the lowest common denominator - i.e. the average, naive, not particularly bright or sophisticated moviegoer who will hand over 20 bucks for 2 hours of entertainment. As zealous as SW fans are, they're not worth 2 billion dollars in movie tickets. The bulk of that comes from people who are peripherally aware of Star Wars but mainly want to see aliens and space ships blowing up.

Do not be surprised, in any way, if the plot of a movie made for such an audience remains forever shallow, generic, and trope-laden. That's what it's designed to be.

If you think there exists nobody who could have written better sequels, you're deluding yourself. They could have made complex, rich, incredibly faceted movies - which would go over the heads of the naive audience and confuse and/or bore them. That's not a SW-specific phenomenon, it's a reality of a movie that costs HUNDREDS of millions of dollars to make and is expected to rake in BILLIONS. They don't take chances. A BigMac is a BigMac, and no tinkering with the sauce.

I challenge anyone to name me the last super-blockbuster that actually had some meat on its bones rather than the pink slime meat substitute of the fast food equivalent of movie making.

You don't spend 2 billion dollars on an IP without a plan to make 10 billion dollars in return, but that doesn't mean people can't be pissed about it. I understand it. The problem with Star Wars now is that movies are meant to be short stories that begin and end in two hours. This is why Rogue One was a good Star Wars movie. But Star Wars at large is more of an epic fantasy with 15 novels and you need more time to dig into the characters. This is what television series do well. I am positive that a quality TV series will premiere with Disney's streaming service on the level of GoT, West World, and others. This will make the shit writing of blockbusters okay, because then we will have something for everyone.

[Independent voter]

Here's chapter 1 of Flash Gordon, the 1930's movie serial that Star Wars is taken from, you can watch all of Flash Gordon on YouTube which would be several hours worth.

There's all kinds of plot holes and other errors, a lot of the basic elements were developed in Flash Gordon though, like if your group is trapped in a fortress, there's going to be a secret escape tunnel. That scene where Leia uses the force to escape the vacuum of space? That would fit right into Flash Gordon.

I just feel a lot of you want the Star Wars IP to be a lot more than it is.

[Macaquerie]

There is no naivete. That's exactly why some are outraged. What has happened to the movie industry and is now happening to the games industry too, is exactly as how Frank Zappa described the music industry changes in his time. A corporate takeover, with guys in suits telling artists what they need to do. Not to mention the social agenda pushed by Disney.

When in living memory has the movie industry not been like that? Seems silly to be criticizing a Star Wars movie for being too commercial, when that's sort of been how the franchise has been since day one.

You don't spend 2 billion dollars on an IP without a plan to make 10 billion dollars in return, but that doesn't mean people can't be pissed about it. I understand it. The problem with Star Wars now is that movies are meant to be short stories that begin and end in two hours. This is why Rogue One was a good Star Wars movie. But Star Wars at large is more of an epic fantasy with 15 novels and you need more time to dig into the characters. This is what television series do well. I am positive that a quality TV series will premiere with Disney's streaming service on the level of GoT, West World, and others. This will make the shit writing of blockbusters okay, because then we will have something for everyone.

Star Wars was conceived as just a single self-contained movie, the story only expanded because there was lots of money to be made, not because the story dictated it. And sure, after 40 years of expanded universe material it might seem like Star Wars was always meant to have this fleshed out world where everyone has a detailed backstory and motivation, but going strictly by the films you'd never get that impression. In time, we'll get plenty of side stories about all the random schmoes in the sequel trilogy too, and maybe it'll be a different experience watching the new movies having read all of that.

[Leih]

I'll say it again... almost everything about TFA and TLJ could be maintained or improved if the First Order wasn't lead by this weird Supreme Commander, who demands an explanation, and rather was jointly lead by Hux and Kylo Ren. Or if there had to be "Supreme Commander", make him as far removed from Palpantine as possible.

I'm not saying it was definitely the right decision, but basically the entire reason Snoke was a thing was to intentionally make him very close to Palpatine in order to sell the possibility that Kylo Ren might not be the big bad guy of the trilogy. The entire storyline of Kylo's conflict between Light and Dark and Rey's ambition to turn him ... without a powerful big bad guy force user filling the role of Emperor Palpatine it makes it far far more unlikely the audience will believe it's even a possibility that he'll turn. If Snoke didn't exist then how would the movies continue if Kylo had joined Rey? Or given in and sided with Han in 7? Hux would hardly make a convincing main villain for the joint force of Kylo and Rey to battle against.

Snoke is in there so the audience believes in the possibility that Kylo and Rey may team up, become the heroes, and still have a big dark force user to rival their power.

Only problem is... I think a lot of people have decided THAT might have made a more exciting movie than what we got so when the twist actually comes and Kylo is revealed to be the true bad guy after all, some people are very disappointed.

[Elim Garak]

It's quite obvious that Snoke identity and Rey's parents were A++ False Flag PsyOps. They got fans thinking in the wrong direction for the next movie to SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKER them. Some people just got so worked up over that they could not let go and rationalized that into "plot holes". Cognitive Dissonance is the real shit.

P.S. Hux is a comic relief character.

[Spryte]

Anyone else incredibly pissed off about that prank phone call thing at the start? What the fuck was that, doesn't belong in a Star Wars films imo. Also Leia can somehow survive the vacuum of space, I was tempted just to up and leave at that point in the film. Film as a whole struck me as incredibly cheesy, didn't really feel like a star wars film. I guess as a casual movie goer it was reasonably enjoyable but as a Star Wars fan it was pretty depressing. Hollywood money grabbers ruin another of my favourite stories.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Anyone else incredibly pissed off about that prank phone call thing at the start? What the fuck was that, doesn't belong in a Star Wars films imo. Also Leia can somehow survive the vacuum of space, I was tempted just to up and leave at that point in the film. Film as a whole struck me as incredibly cheesy, didn't really feel like a star wars film. I guess as a casual movie goer it was reasonably enjoyable but as a Star Wars fan it was pretty depressing. Hollywood money grabbers ruin another of my favourite stories.

How have hey ruined one of your favourite story’s? The story wasn’t a thing till they made it unless your comparing it to the EU.

[Leih]

P.S. Hux is a comic relief character.

I think it's an unpopular opinion but I actually really like Hux. Not sure why, he's just a very funny character. That moment when he reached for his gun contemplating Kylo on the ground. I grinned so hard.

[draykorinee]

Anyone else incredibly pissed off about that prank phone call thing at the start? What the fuck was that, doesn't belong in a Star Wars films imo. Also Leia can somehow survive the vacuum of space, I was tempted just to up and leave at that point in the film. Film as a whole struck me as incredibly cheesy, didn't really feel like a star wars film. I guess as a casual movie goer it was reasonably enjoyable but as a Star Wars fan it was pretty depressing. Hollywood money grabbers ruin another of my favourite stories.

I didn't dislike it but I do agree it felt try hard and out of place even if I did actually find it funny.

[Elim Garak]

I think it's an unpopular opinion but I actually really like Hux. Not sure why, he's just a very funny character. That moment when he reached for his gun contemplating Kylo on the ground. I grinned so hard.

Hux is awesome. At one point I thought Kylo is gonna kill him, but I was relieved to see him alive later.

I didn't dislike it but I do agree it felt try hard and out of place even if I did actually find it funny.

It was done perfectly and it wasn't out of place. It fit perfectly and eased the pacing of the movie right before the intense part.

[PACOX]

I think it's an unpopular opinion but I actually really like Hux. Not sure why, he's just a very funny character. That moment when he reached for his gun contemplating Kylo on the ground. I grinned so hard.

Hux is a fun character because he takes himself more seriously than how people perceive him. He is like an evil Boy Scout.

[draykorinee]

Hux is awesome. At one point I thought Kylo is gonna kill him, but I was relieved to see him alive later.


It was done perfectly and it wasn't out of place. It fit perfectly and eased the pacing of the movie right before the intense part.

If that's how you feel that's fine. I don't remember any of the films starting off with the need to break any pacing, ANH is flat out for the first few minutes.

[Logwyn]

RT Justice league score: 41

RT Star Wars 8 score: 93

How can you recognize a shit movie but give another shit movie an almost perfect score? There is no doubt Disney paid them off. And not just them, I'm afraid.

I guess RT is rotten tomatoes?

[Florena]

Yeah I hope so. Still rooting for Rey Palpatine and Snope to be Plageuis.

The movie seemed to be suggesting Rey knew all along but was in denial. We'll see through. Personally I like her being a nobody.

- - - Updated - - -

RT Justice league score: 41

RT Star Wars 8 score: 93

How can you recognize a shit movie but give another shit movie an almost perfect score? There is no doubt Disney paid them off. And not just them, I'm afraid.

Or people have different opinions and more people liked this movie than JL.

[Sky High]

Welp, this is it, this was the movie that killed any sort of feelings and emotions I have for this franchise. I don’t love it, I don’t hate it, I feel nothing towards these new movies. Which is a cardinal sin in cinema.

But I guess this feeling of incredulity about SW has always been there. The original trilogy never gripped me beyond it being a nice, simple story about good vs evil and redemption. But beyond that nothing about the universe or the characters therin ever struck a cord with me since none of that is ever really relevant to the over arching story. It’s focus is too limited and simplistic for me to look at it as anything but overhyped fluff, and this movie was that nail in the coffin.

See I can sit back and genuinely enjoy the OT and also sit back and laugh at the prequels with thier nonsensical plot, vomit inducing dialogue, nonexistent directing, insufferable characters, etc. but this? This is BORING. I’m sorry but taking the same plot setup and beats from the OT and sorta mixing them up just comes off as lazy and cynical. And now since Disney is going to be shitting these movies out like a factory I’m not looking forward to where these movies go, AT ALL. That Disney gloss is in my eyes and it buuurns!

[Aurrora]

The movie seemed to be suggesting Rey knew all along but was in denial. We'll see through. Personally I like her being a nobody.

But Rey's parents being people of import was never Rey's thing, that was conjecture from the fandom. Rey was just insistent that her parents were eventually coming back for her, and they can do that while still being "nobodies".

[Shadowferal]

Yeah...I think the last Star Wars movie for me was Rogue One...and that's it.

Had some doubts about "The Force Awakens," but that doubt has been reinforced and confirmed. This ain't Star Wars to me.

[therealbowser]

If a director of a sci fi movie cant even bother to get some idea/information what an environment like space is doing to a human or opening a door between a spaceship and open space what then would happen then you ask for it in my opinion.

Yes its fantasy, but you should respect atleast some laws like gravity ect.

I agree that this was incredibly imaginative and not at all realistic, not enough to make the movie go from borderline masterpiece to 'waste of film', though.

To be honest though this is literally the first time I've seen this mentioned as an argument against Star Wars Episode 8. And it's actually a decent point, for what it is.