Does the artifact and legendary system make it more difficult to catch up?

[Tennis]

Back in the old days you could easily log in if you took a break and in a short period of time you would be up to speed and competitive.

However, for some reason Blizz has decided to move away from this model.

It seems obvious that it will hurt the chance of old players re subscribing and yet they continue with it. What gives?

[Saluun]

The legendary system no.. the Artifact system : YES.

I had to do a break right after the first month of Legion due RL issues. I came back around 3 weeks ago and because of gated content it's hard to catch up. I can't force AK to come by faster I also can't force Lingering Souls to come by faster because that's also gated content. Also kinda or heavily possible to get into a mythic raiding guild, because I'll always behind the others so yeah.. those 2 months screwed me over for the rest of this expansion pretty much.

[Supercool]

Part of the reason I think this team is so inept is that several of their design decisions clash.

For instance, it was openly stated that they wanted to relieve the WoD pressure of feeling like you needed to log in constantly to manage that bloody garrison, so Legion missions would be a far more infrequent affair and the new world quest Emissaries would be allowed to accumulate for a few days before they expired.

Only they went and gave you a whole slew of new reasons to log in every day, namely the absurd AP grind and the legendary system. Running mythic+ dungeons to the exclusion of all other content and doing it hours a day every day is the only way to beat the law of averages.

[Fynzie]

Catch up on legendaries is the worst (way more than artifact power) because unless you are fucking lucky you're good to have to grind half of them to have 2 "decent" one. It may change if their earlier call to nerf them send the to oblivion where they belong.

[Deleted]

Personally I just see it as a lazy way to get people playing. Unfortunately I can't really see new people wanting to join in

[Deleted]

99% of the discussions about Legion are related to Legendaries. They're the worst aspect of the expansion.

AK should be account-wide. Anyone who played more than a few days during beta would've noticed. And that's why they're going to release that "buy ak if your main already has it" thing.

[Deleted]

99% of the discussions about Legion are related to Legendaries. They're the worst aspect of the expansion.

AK should be account-wide. Anyone who played more than a few days during beta would've noticed. And that's why they're going to release that "buy ak if your main already has it" thing.

Personally I think this should've come in 7.1 but least 7.2 hopefully isn't far. I just hope 7.2 adds much more catch up mechanics

[Dug]

AK system makes it a bit hard to catch up right away but the legendaries have no impact on "catch up".

You're practically guaranteed at least one with minor playing.

[SoulSoBreezy]

Back in the old days you could easily log in if you took a break and in a short period of time you would be up to speed and competitive.

However, for some reason Blizz has decided to move away from this model.

It seems obvious that it will hurt the chance of old players re subscribing and yet they continue with it. What gives?

Because not all players think the same way, and it's not a "right vs wrong" mindset either.
Some players are vehemently against the ideas of catchup mechanisms, account bound things or welfare for alts. I'm not talking about all three things either, but individually.

That said, going from AK 0 to 15 only takes 15K resources and has no cooldown for all characters in 715, not just alts, followed by the usual 3 day catchup if you have a higher AK on your main. IMO that's pretty darn reasonable.
As for legs I don't have much of an opinion on it, other than my thought that the number of players who actually need to be competitive are in the outstanding minority. And they're getting nerfed while affected classes will receive a buff to compensate. I ain't sweating.

[Deleted]

yes
10char

[Deleted]

AK system makes it a bit hard to catch up right away but the legendaries have no impact on "catch up".

You're practically guaranteed at least one with minor playing.

Imagine you're playing hunter. First legendary is roots of thaladrassil. Second one is Sepuhz. Third one is Feign Death Leg
Level up another hunter. First legendary = boots. That hunter becomes your main now. And if that 2nd hunter isn't you but it's your guildie. Guess who's getting the guarm slot.

[Deleted]

Funny fact. You are not supostu catch up with othes if you are late period. Dont get where this mentality came from. If you are late into the game you dont deserver to catch up with rest of the playerbase it completly dimonish any achievemnts and acomplishments done by older players.

[Supercool]

Funny fact. You are not supostu catch up with othes if you are late period. Dont get where this mentality came from. If you are late into the game you dont deserver to catch up with rest of the playerbase it completly dimonish any achievemnts and acomplishments done by older players.

The results of a game like that is very few new people ever join and player counts can only go down toward the inevitable zero.

In reality MMORPGs deliberately do things like resetting the power curve every expansion and providing catch-up mechanics so that people CAN join late and, through some effort, get caught up.

In the case of Legion, time investment trumps even player skill. It doesn't matter how perfectly you can play your character, you also need to invest an unhealthy amount of time into daily Mythic+ farming to stay cutting edge.

[ping-pong]

back in what old days could you just login and in no time be competitive?

do you ever think about if it's fair that you come after months of break and be competitive with the guy that plays it 5hrs/day since launch? do you ever think that you should work for that mythic progress? it took people some time to get to where they are now... what makes you eligible to skip their hard work and just enter mythic raid for the luls?

play the game at the pace it's meant to be played. no, you can't skip everything that everyone's been doing. no, you don't have to join mythic progress guild after months of break. get real.

[vandalhart]

99% of the discussions about Legion are related to Legendaries. They're the worst aspect of the expansion.

AK should be account-wide. Anyone who played more than a few days during beta would've noticed. And that's why they're going to release that "buy ak if your main already has it" thing.

I wasn't even in the beta, but when I read about the system in late July, all I thought was "this screams account-wide". The way it's implemented now is idiotic. Even the 7.1.5 way of catching up is half assed for players who most likely will already be at AK 25 by the time it goes live.

The AP scaling should have been automatic for all players that should have increased every tuesday. No work orders, no order hall resources required.

The work order system just needs to die. Reminds me of tablet SimCity style games - plink an object down, wait X amount of real hours until it's done.

[Darkguyver2020]

Unless you're part of the sub 1% going for Mythic world firsts, or trying to clear the higher levels of Mythic plus or aiming to be part of the 95th percentile or some shit, you really do not need to grind AP and you most certainly do not need Legendaries.
Most of the content can be completed without those things. It's easy to get caught up on AP if you keep your Artifact Knowledge accumulating. I'm a pretty casual player and even I have managed to get 34 traits unlocked on two of my artifacts while most of my other artifacts spread over 5 alts are in the high 20's.

All I see on this forum is inane whining from entitled players who want everything now now now now NOW! These systems were designed to encourage "playing the game" and making content continue to be relevant throughout the course of an expansion's life. Unless you morons actually preferred to AFK in your garrisons during WoD with fuck all to do?

[vandalhart]

Funny fact. You are not supostu catch up with othes if you are late period. Dont get where this mentality came from. If you are late into the game you dont deserver to catch up with rest of the playerbase it completly dimonish any achievemnts and acomplishments done by older players.

Says who? You? They have always had catch up mechanisms in place. And lately, it's been nearly every single raid tier that comes out. Remember ICC? remember how those dungeons on heroic gave ToC 10 man gear?

[Darkguyver2020]

Says who? You? They have always had catch up mechanisms in place. And lately, it's been nearly every single raid tier that comes out. Remember ICC? remember how those dungeons on heroic gave ToC 10 man gear?

Vanilla and BC says hi.

[vandalhart]

Unless you're part of the sub 1% going for Mythic world firsts, or trying to clear the higher levels of Mythic plus or aiming to be part of the 95th percentile or some shit, you really do not need to grind AP and you most certainly do not need Legendaries.
Most of the content can be completed without those things. It's easy to get caught up on AP if you keep your Artifact Knowledge accumulating. I'm a pretty casual player and even I have managed to get 34 traits unlocked on two of my artifacts while most of my other artifacts spread over 5 alts are in the high 20's.

All I see on this forum is inane whining from entitled players who want everything now now now now NOW! These systems were designed to encourage "playing the game" and making content continue to be relevant throughout the course of an expansion's life. Unless you morons actually preferred to AFK in your garrisons during WoD with fuck all to do?

Such a poor argument. The point of ANY rpg, is to increase character power. Most of the content can be completed without high AP weapons and legendaries is true. But with this items, these activities can be performed better. And if players are performing better, guess what, their character power is increasing. I'm a pretty casual player as well and the highest I got on my outlaw rogue (main) was 25 or 28 AP points with AK at 17. I think the other 2 specs were mid teens for AP but I don't like the way they feel so it's a moot point for me. I have a second character, DK that I got to 110. He's only at ~18 I think with frost and I haven't touched the other specs (don't like how they feel either). His AK is around 10ish I think. I parked him and logged into the mobile app to do research notes because I couldn't stand getting a couple hundred AP when my rogue would get 11k+. The system is not engaging and a motivation killer the way it is now. But, I let my subscription lapse 7 days ago so whatever. Not interested in just sitting characters out.

But then you might respond " you don't have to sit characters out, just play the game". It's a bit hard to do that on an alt, when you know your game time in terms of hours, can be far more efficient if you sit and let AK build up first. And the only way I stick around for more than a couple months, is changing up gameplay with other classes. If there's no motivation to press on, then I don't.

- - - Updated - - -

Vanilla and BC says hi.

Um, did you play? Revamped dungeon armor sets in Vanilla and Badge gear in TBC.

[Darkguyver2020]

Such a poor argument. The point of ANY rpg, is to increase character power. Most of the content can be completed without high AP weapons and legendaries is true. But with this items, these activities can be performed better. And if players are performing better, guess what, their character power is increasing.

How is it a poor argument? What do you need that extra power for? To pull more mobs out in the world? To top the meters in LFR so you can stroke your e-peen?
Unless you're in a progressive raiding guild and are having trouble with a particular boss, it really doesn't matter. Better itemized gear often tends to bridge the gap more than AP and Legendaries and that shit is easy to get your hands on. Epics literally rain from the skies in this expansion.
My main has an 870 ilevel and I have never once set foot in Mythic Plus dungeons or in Emerald Nightmare above Normal mode. I most certainly don't need better gear for the content I participate in.