PTR Patch: Might removed, 12% skill buff except to TV!

[Happiminti]

Did we decide if it was to include TV also and was just a typo/left out or does it actually not include TV?

[Emerald Archer]

To be fair though while it may be an additional 25% mana, there's no guarantee you'll need that mana. I.e. if you end a fight at 60% mana, that 25% was 100% wasted. Even if you ended at 25%, you probably wasted an extremely large portion of it. There's also parts of the fight where regenerating mana slowly doesn't benefit you much, and a more rapid regeneration on a cooldown would be more valuable, for when you need it, not in case you need it.

That's not really how prog works though. On most prog fights you will end it oom. If you aren't oom/under 20% (or some of your fellow healers oom), you have too many healers and could have gotten an extra dps instead.

And prog is what matters in raiding. Not the farm kills.

[SpartanJet]

I'd rather just have hand of sacrifice back.

Hell no keep that cancer away. I wish they would remove BoP while they were at it. It is completely out of place on a DPS class bent on retribution.

[Maduk]

I wish they would remove BoP while they were at it. It is completely out of place on a DPS class bent on retribution.

You are 12 years too late.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Hell no keep that cancer away. I wish they would remove BoP while they were at it. It is completely out of place on a DPS class bent on retribution.

BoSac was one of the strongest tools at Ret's disposal.

Suggestion to remove BoP though exposes you as the troll you are!
Begone, foul creature!

[SpartanJet]

BoSac was one of the strongest tools at Ret's disposal.

Suggestion to remove BoP though exposes you as the troll you are!
Begone, foul creature!

Our strongest tool (and really the only tool needed) is our dps as a dps class.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Our strongest tool (and really the only tool needed) is our dps as a dps class.

No.


These are two characters enough of a rebuttal to a senseless statement.

[Wrecktangle]

That's not really how prog works though. On most prog fights you will end it oom. If you aren't oom/under 20% (or some of your fellow healers oom), you have too many healers and could have gotten an extra dps instead.

And prog is what matters in raiding. Not the farm kills.

I don't disagree that prog matters and is most important, but even on prog kills you're not always OOM. Sure sometimes you are, but more often than not throughput isn't what makes or breaks a wipe, typically mistakes or failure to execute mechanics, so in the end your rebuttal is still inaccurate.

[Emerald Archer]

I don't disagree that prog matters and is most important, but even on prog kills you're not always OOM. Sure sometimes you are, but more often than not throughput isn't what makes or breaks a wipe, typically mistakes or failure to execute mechanics, so in the end your rebuttal is still inaccurate.

If you aren't oom/near oom or atleast one of your healers aren't, you should probably drop a healer. In prog, the VAST majority of the time you will go oom. Nythendra, Il'gynoth, ursoc, dragons, cenarius, they are fights you go oom on in prog. And if you didn't, you have too many healers. Or you could have done a lot more healing and just didn't.

[Morally Grey Storm]

If your Healer is not oom, you should kick him.
Top advices.
No more, please.

[Brocken]

If blizzard still want us to have wisdom, might and kings, to keep up the class lore or what ever.
I would like to see wisdom turn in to something like Innervate, to be used when it is needed, not just a passiv buff you put on every hour.
And i think Kings could be turnd in to Heroisem/bloodlust/timewarp, and give it to all 3 speccs
Not sure what to do with Might, since give a temp dmg buff to one player, has not worked out before, and can't think of any other fun stuff to do with it

[Emerald Archer]

If your Healer is not oom, you should kick him.
Top advices.
No more, please.

Reading is hard hey

[Morally Grey Storm]

Reading is hard hey

so is making sense hay

[Emerald Archer]

so is making sense hay

If you could read, you'd see how it made sense.

If all of your healers, on a hard progression fight, are finding mana to be easy to hold onto, you have too many healers and should sit one. Because you don't need that many healers. And more dps would be much more useful and help you to kill said boss faster. Even if it's a low healing requirement fight, if you have 4 healers, and they're all chilling around 50% mana when the fight ends, it means the fight was fairly easy to heal. (Most of the time) Which means, you only needed 3 healers. So why bring the 4th.

[Morally Grey Storm]

If you could read, you'd see how it made sense.

If all of your healers, on a hard progression fight, are finding mana to be easy to hold onto, you have too many healers and should sit one. Because you don't need that many healers. And more dps would be much more useful and help you to kill said boss faster. Even if it's a low healing requirement fight, if you have 4 healers, and they're all chilling around 50% mana when the fight ends, it means the fight was fairly easy to heal. (Most of the time) Which means, you only needed 3 healers. So why bring the 4th.

I'm fairly certain I can read.
Not so sure about your ability to make sense.

You try boss a few times and decide if you need more healers or not.
It's asinine to try a boss then decide "hey we need more Rets so our healers maybe probably can have some more mana over the course of a long-ass fight."
A single Innervate may very well make a bigger impact then a raid decked out with Retpaladins.

Also, I can't for the life of me remember who ruled out that on prog fights healers MUST be oom.
Because they don't.

[Deleted]

Did we decide if it was to include TV also and was just a typo/left out or does it actually not include TV?

When i was on the PTR it was definitly buffed.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll be using my GBoK on the healers in the raids, I think that's the optimal use personally. The tank has no use for such a small shield, the healers have no use for such a tiny mana gen. But the shield might help protect the healers during dot heavy phases sometimes.

This is an incorrect way of thinking.

What you have to think of is uptime.

If the shield is on your tank and your tank is consistently taking damage using up each absorb, this will result in less mana beeing required to keep your tank up during the fight freeing up mana and globals the healer can better use to execute mechanics or heal the raid.

The kings on your healer is going to do comparatively alot less for your raid or party. It "may" save your healer, but most likely won't most of the time and it will be wasted.

Wisdom in the same way is better used on a healer. After the buff it will represent 30% of a mana bar during an average 5m fight. That means your healer will be able to heal the raid 30% longer or 30% more strongly than he normally can. That is a huge benefit.
Alternatively, an arcane mage may enjoy increased DPS with it, if your healers don't need the mana.

Please use your BoK on tanks or targets that are taking constant damage throught the fight and your BoW on your strongest healer or arcane mage if you want to make the best use of them.

You are welcome.

[Emerald Archer]

I'm fairly certain I can read.
Not so sure about your ability to make sense.

You try boss a few times and decide if you need more healers or not.
It's asinine to try a boss then decide "hey we need more Rets so our healers maybe probably can have some more mana over the course of a long-ass fight."
A single Innervate may very well make a bigger impact then a raid decked out with Retpaladins.

Also, I can't for the life of me remember who ruled out that on prog fights healers MUST be oom.
Because they don't.

I'm not saying stack ret pallys, I'm saying that wisdom is a very useful ability in progression.

And i'm not saying healers MUST be oom, i'm saying if every single healer, is having no mana issues at all, you could drop a healer and have a better time progging (IN MOST CASES)

Jesus, why are you so anti-ret, all i'm saying is Wisdom is good, and will be useful in raids.

[Snackwiches]

They really, really want all classes to pretty much be the same thing in this game.

[Deleted]

Overall the removal of BOM is a retribution buff, and quite a substantial one. First off, as many have stated - youre not dependant on guessing which dps will have a good try. Sure that Firemage "might" perform normally, but he might also have that one try where he dies at 80%, or disconnects - and you lose 3% of your damage.

The removal of that also gives Ret 2 new spells to use, BOW and BOK.

While you might say "lol why would i shield the tank with a lousy 60k shield every 6 seconds", or give healers 20% mana over a longer fight. Id actually say its incredibly powerful.
Just for theory imagine a raid with 15 rets as DPS, suddenly you have a 900k absorb shield on the tank every 6 seconds and youre giving the healers 300% extra mana to work with.

That alone adds 1-3 healers worth of healing output, allowing you to bring another dps - or allows the healers to use their cooldowns for damage. If your 15 DPS are all doing 500k dps on avarage, and the Ret is also doing 500k. BOK / W directly translates into more damage, if youre adding one extra dps because of it, the ret paladins would all be getting 33k dps because of BOW/K.

Of course the same way it also scales down, if 15 rets all get 33k damage from it, so does one. All it takes is healers beeing weave in an extra 33k dps because of your buffs. 33 k is also a very low estimate of the gained damage. - it could be as much as 50-60k dps worth of damage.

Point is, while you might have troubles explaining it, BOW/K is also an indirect DPS gain for the raid.

[Tanthoris]

They really, really want all classes to pretty much be the same thing in this game.

If that was truly the case every class would have lust, Brez and only one type of CC. But sadly blizz has tried to homogenize classes so much that it feels like that. The comminunity was raging about GBoM since the time it was added onto beta basically, it just forced ret paladins to search for the best targets to leech free damage off of. So instead of making it something a bit different and more useful they decide to remove it, give ret a damage buff and buff the other two "useless" Greater blessings.

Trying to hold onto the Blessings of the old day in an environment where no classes have buffs makes for a very bad situation, which is where Ret has been left.