Are Brewmasters getting gimped with Paragon points?

[Khorm]

Brewmasters are getting way less benefit from the increase in armour due to us having low armour compared to most of the other tank classes. I hardly see how this is fair and just increases the gap between different classes.

[Julmara]

i think its on the same level as the other tanks

[Yohagi]

Brewmasters are getting way less benefit from the increase in armour due to us having low armour compared to most of the other tank classes. I hardly see how this is fair and just increases the gap between different classes.

Tbh I have the same point of view of you. I think a less increase in HP could be better... idk.

[FayrenPickpocket]

Other tanks are getting way less benefit from Stagger due to us having low stagger compared to brewmaster. I hardly see how this is fair and just increases the gap between different classes.

[Raugnaut]

In TBC, they made armor increases completely linear - I.E going from 1k-2k armor had the same defensive value as going from 5k-6k armor. Before that, the more armor you had, the more value each point got.

So, that +% armor you get is just as valuable to you as it is to druids, DKs, DHs, and others.

[Deleted]

So other tanks getting higher and higher Diminishing Returns is gimping you?

[Khorm]

Other tanks are getting way less benefit from Stagger due to us having low stagger compared to brewmaster. I hardly see how this is fair and just increases the gap between different classes.

I can see what you are doing there. This isn't a whinge about low armour, it's a whinge about how an item that is supposed to have an equal benefit across classes is not with Brewmasters.

[FayrenPickpocket]

I can see what you are doing there. This isn't a whinge about low armour, it's a whinge about how an item that is supposed to have an equal benefit across classes is not with Brewmasters.

I feel it was meant to be equal all tanks would wear the same armor. It's not meant to be equal

[Khorm]

I feel it was meant to be equal all tanks would wear the same armor. It's not meant to be equal

How isn't it supposed to be equal?

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In TBC, they made armor increases completely linear - I.E going from 1k-2k armor had the same defensive value as going from 5k-6k armor. Before that, the more armor you had, the more value each point got.

So, that +% armor you get is just as valuable to you as it is to druids, DKs, DHs, and others.

Thanks, so it works out to about the same %?

[Chuupag]

In TBC, they made armor increases completely linear - I.E going from 1k-2k armor had the same defensive value as going from 5k-6k armor. Before that, the more armor you had, the more value each point got.

So, that +% armor you get is just as valuable to you as it is to druids, DKs, DHs, and others.

You know your math is horrible here right...

10% more of 2k is 200. 10% more of 6k is 600. If going from 2k to 3k is equal to going from 6k to 7k then going from 2k to 2.2k is worse than going from 6k to 6.6k.

[FayrenPickpocket]

How isn't it supposed to be equal?

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Thanks, so it works out to about the same %?

Because brewmasters have stagger. They're not supposed to have high armor. It's not gimping us.

[Khorm]

Because brewmasters have stagger. They're not supposed to have high armor. It's not gimping us.

Lol, that's not the point.

[pakky]

Armor is linear if we consider the EHP but it has diminishing returns if we consider the damage reduction each point of armor gives. That's if we are talking about benefits of a single point of armor but in this case we are considering a % increase.

To answer the question if for a BrM the 35th trait gives you around 2.6% dr against physical damage from a raid boss, the same trait will give a druid around 4.3% dr.
Don't quote on the exact numbers (I'm recalling but I may be wrong and it obviously depends on how geared you are) but the idea is that the more armor you have the more effective is a % increase.

On the other hand a trinket like the Darkmoon one is stronger for us than it is for the other tanks so there are pros and cons of being a low armor tank.

[Raugnaut]

You know your math is horrible here right...

10% more of 2k is 200. 10% more of 6k is 600. If going from 2k to 3k is equal to going from 6k to 7k then going from 2k to 2.2k is worse than going from 6k to 6.6k.

Its not my math, its the way blizz has armor scaling. Before BC, going from 6k-7k armor yielded MORE damage reduction then going from 2k-3k. Don't ask me how, I didn't do maths back then. Then blizz made a change to armor scaling so that every single stat point of armor was equal to every single other stat point of armor. Sure, going from 5k-5.5k is a 10% increase in armor stat, whereas 50k-50.5k is only a 1% increase in armor stat, but that 500 armor will yield the exact same damage reduction over time. Armor is not like crit, haste, or anything else here, it uses a wierd scaling model.

[pakky]

Sure, going from 5k-5.5k is a 10% increase in armor stat, whereas 50k-50.5k is only a 1% increase in armor stat, but that 500 armor will yield the exact same damage reduction over time.

Not exactly, that 500 extra armor will give you the same ammount of Effective HP in both cases but the damage reduction in the first case will be higher.

[Raugnaut]

Not exactly, that 500 extra armor will give you the same ammount of Effective HP in both cases but the damage reduction in the first case will be higher.

EH, yea, thats what scaled linearly. Last I looked at how armor worked was in wrath.

[Alvito]

How isn't it supposed to be equal?

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Thanks, so it works out to about the same %?

It isn't supposed to be equal because they all have different tool kits. If all things were equal between tanks we wouldn't need, want or have so many specs. The armor % from the weapon is going to be better for some specs then others it is just the nature of the game. It is the same as the % increase to damage not having an equal increase to all dps.

[Deleted]

As people seem to be bad at math here is a pretty picture:


The graph depicts how much Physical Damage reduction you gain by increasing Armor by 10% at various armor values. The peak is at 6718 armor after which you actually get less benefit than those at lower armor values. The rough difference between an average leather class (2k+) and average plate class (5k+) at 880+ item level is going to be a 0.67% of disparity.

However if we look at the base damage reduction and compare it to gains then the 10% increased armor will increase Monk Physical damage mitigation by roughly 7.7% while Paladin would only gain 5.7% increase.

Conclusion. All non leather classes are gimped with Paragon points. I suggest we nerf Brewmasters.

[Felixphaeton]

Its not my math, its the way blizz has armor scaling. Before BC, going from 6k-7k armor yielded MORE damage reduction then going from 2k-3k. Don't ask me how, I didn't do maths back then. Then blizz made a change to armor scaling so that every single stat point of armor was equal to every single other stat point of armor. Sure, going from 5k-5.5k is a 10% increase in armor stat, whereas 50k-50.5k is only a 1% increase in armor stat, but that 500 armor will yield the exact same damage reduction over time. Armor is not like crit, haste, or anything else here, it uses a wierd scaling model.

Yes...So a Brewmaster with 2k armor will gain 200 armor, whereas a plate tank with 6k armor will gain 600 armor. Brewmasters gain 200 armor worth of EHP, plate tanks gain 600 armor worth of EHP. Plate tanks gain more benefit from the trait than Brewmaster does.

[Deleted]

Yes...So a Brewmaster with 2k armor will gain 200 armor, whereas a plate tank with 6k armor will gain 600 armor. Brewmasters gain 200 armor worth of EHP, plate tanks gain 600 armor worth of EHP. Plate tanks gain more benefit from the trait than Brewmaster does.

False. They will actually gain less.