Discrepency in Brewmaster stats on different sites

[Gorsameth]

So I think I've come to a sort of answer. Haste gives you more brew generation. However, haste does not reduce incoming damage, so those increased brews become more necessary the more stats you trade for haste. With haste stacking, you are increasing the solution to a problem, while increasing the problem at the same time.

If you only feel comfortable with a ton of brews for purifying because your healers can't keep up with your stagger, consider the possibility that with more Crit, their heals would be more effective, or with more Mastery, you would dodge more, and thus have less stagger in the first place. Those who say they have 30%+ and still feel like they don't have enough brews probably are in this boat.

Haste seems like a more 'selfish' stat, for lack of a better word. You are consenting to take more damage and receive less healing, so that you personally have more tools to deal with it. That's not a bad thing, per se, just something to think about.

If we talk about raids, tanks rarely die from a lack of sustained healer HPS. Its burst that kills tank. Haste does the most for that by giving you 100% ISB uptime and letting you purify off the High stagger from these burst windows.

Mastery reduces the chance of such a burst happening but only works against Auto attacks and not abilities which are often (always) more dangerous.
Crit heals your healers cope but does nothing to reduce the killing burst itself.

Now you ofcourse don't want to ignore Mastery/Crit because if they go low enough healers will indeed struggle, as with most things in the game some sort of balance has to be maintained.

For dungeons this changes because there is more pressure on the single healer which increases the value of Mastery/Crit.

[BeardedMagician]

Not only that but crit is RNG, therefore you cannot rely on it. Mastery is only for auto attack damage and is also RNG just ramping up to guaranteed. Brew usage allows you to control the damage more consistently. The only stat that will help in all scenarios like haste would be versatility.

[porubezhnik]

Mastery is only for auto attack damage

WUT? Attack power != attack damage

[BeardedMagician]

WUT? Attack power != attack damage

meant defensively speaking. yes the offensive side is nice as well. I still think the haste>mastery-vers>crit is the strongest. Until anything concrete comes out that is the model i will use as it has worked well for me going 7/7m and getting my +15 done.

[Deleted]

Tell me your BoC rotation with below 20% haste and how it works out for not faceroll content. Otherwise please play SIM instead of WoW, while I stay with WoW, where my BoC rotation and brew availability is splendid at +30% haste. I rather play the game than sim it.

*points at Omnibrew*
Werent you Omni using like 17% or something with BoC? And this is the dude parsing some of the #1 BrM logs - and yes, even on mythic ToV

[PinDrop]

If we talk about raids, tanks rarely die from a lack of sustained healer HPS. Its burst that kills tank. Haste does the most for that by giving you 100% ISB uptime and letting you purify off the High stagger from these burst windows.

Mastery reduces the chance of such a burst happening but only works against Auto attacks and not abilities which are often (always) more dangerous.
Crit heals your healers cope but does nothing to reduce the killing burst itself.

Now you ofcourse don't want to ignore Mastery/Crit because if they go low enough healers will indeed struggle, as with most things in the game some sort of balance has to be maintained.

For dungeons this changes because there is more pressure on the single healer which increases the value of Mastery/Crit.

But Brewmasters dont take burst damage. Our damage comes in every half second, with larger stagger meaning bigger, more "bursty" ticks. Haste will do that for you. Sure, you'll have the brews to deal with it, but the risk is there. Big nonphysical attacks are few and far between, normally predictable, and coverable with cooldowns/healer externals.

All I'm saying is, if burst is what kills tanks, haste and crit builds are the ones that seem, to me, to make us more "burst-able". That may not be an issue for some. That isn't an issue for some. The builds are playable, and perform well. I've seen people from all corners saying that they did mythic+x or somesuch with X, Y or Z stat and it worked great.

Maybe Blizzard finally did it and managed to make a class balanced, I dunno.

Except for our damage.

Give us moar.

[stross01]

*points at Omnibrew*
Werent you Omni using like 17% or something with BoC? And this is the dude parsing some of the #1 BrM logs - and yes, even on mythic ToV

Legendary chest is the most important component to those orange numbers.

Edit: Catering your strat to scumbaggery also helps.

[enak101]

Was usually running between 10-13% haste (pushed it up a touch to 15% for helya prog now).
Yes the legendary chest is a nice boost (tho on single target not as huge as some people would like to believe imo)
Still at the times I killed odyn and guarm my rank 1's were so ahead of rank 2 i would have got rank 1 without the chest :P

But we don't really want anecdotes in a thread like this anyway, haste is a tough one to math out the value of, but certainly im convinved in terms of doing damage, that all signs point towards the other stats (vers/crit the most probably, tho I think mastery is a good defensive stat as well as only a bit behind the others in damage) and lower haste.

I plan to run my sims of my own when i get simc up and running just because it does for the most part work but I'm guessing we could talk about haste and defensive stats all day.

[stross01]

Was usually running between 10-13% haste (pushed it up a touch to 15% for helya prog now).
Yes the legendary chest is a nice boost (tho on single target not as huge as some people would like to believe imo)
Still at the times I killed odyn and guarm my rank 1's were so ahead of rank 2 i would have got rank 1 without the chest :P

But we don't really want anecdotes in a thread like this anyway, haste is a tough one to math out the value of, but certainly im convinved in terms of doing damage, that all signs point towards the other stats (vers/crit the most probably, tho I think mastery is a good defensive stat as well as only a bit behind the others in damage) and lower haste.

I plan to run my sims of my own when i get simc up and running just because it does for the most part work but I'm guessing we could talk about haste and defensive stats all day.

There's no need to believe or not believe, the data is up on warcraftlogs. You cannot possibly compete with someone with the chest if you're using the same strat with the same kill times. It's not even close. Not one fucking drip of anecdote here.

[Llarold]

Was usually running between 10-13% haste (pushed it up a touch to 15% for helya prog now).
Yes the legendary chest is a nice boost (tho on single target not as huge as some people would like to believe imo)
Still at the times I killed odyn and guarm my rank 1's were so ahead of rank 2 i would have got rank 1 without the chest :P

The Legendary chest is actually more of a defensive gain in ST if you're playing pure offense, but it is still a technical offensive gain. A gain is a gain is a gain.

[porubezhnik]

meant defensively speaking. yes the offensive side is nice as well. I still think the haste>mastery-vers>crit is the strongest. Until anything concrete comes out that is the model i will use as it has worked well for me going 7/7m and getting my +15 done.

Actually, no. There is a bunch of "special" attacks that can miss. Just a few encounters/places where dodges help a lot that I can remember now - Xavius (Nightmare Infusion? never heard), Elereth (mostly when you can protect the entire raid when using EK while winds) in EN, 3rd boss in BRH (can soak charge w/o any damage at all), 1st boss in HoV (and 4 guys with bleeding near Odin - no hit, no debuff), General Xakal in Arcway (you can dodge Wicked Slam and you can protect the entire party if you use EK before hit).

[Deleted]

How are legendaries affecting stat weights?


If you are lucky and get the bracers next patch will that push mastery to our most important stat? Will it also make elusive dance worth picking up?
How about if you have the ring now? Does that push haste up since we can purify more damage? High tolerance being better with ring maybe?

[Deleted]

What's the verdict on versatility vs crit for survivability purposes and does mastery lose value when reaching higher numbers?

[Llarold]

What's the verdict on versatility vs crit for survivability purposes and does mastery lose value when reaching higher numbers?

Versatility is a better defensive stat than Crit in raids. In Mythic+, they're arguably much closer. Mastery loses value due to diminishing returns.

[edisonzsp]

I just want to say thank you to all of you who is commenting here.

I have learn a LOT after I read through this thread. The Monk is always my favorite, but I seem to lost my BrM after 7.0. But I think just got my BrM back because of you guys. Thank you again.

Happy New Year everyone. Enjoy!

[Zephirdd]

Actually, no. There is a bunch of "special" attacks that can miss. Just a few encounters/places where dodges help a lot that I can remember now - Xavius (Nightmare Infusion? never heard), Elereth (mostly when you can protect the entire raid when using EK while winds) in EN, 3rd boss in BRH (can soak charge w/o any damage at all), 1st boss in HoV (and 4 guys with bleeding near Odin - no hit, no debuff), General Xakal in Arcway (you can dodge Wicked Slam and you can protect the entire party if you use EK before hit).

add Parjesh in EoA to that list. It's not uncommon to have adds killed by accidental cleave, the other day I used BoK+Purifying and tanked the spear - no damage, no bleed, no knockback.

[Deleted]

Versatility is far superior to Crit defensively. This has been proven over and over again since beta, and it has not changed.