Legion ended up being a repetitive grind

[Marrilaife]

Your additional "grinds", if people are really running the same dungeons over and over for a slightly better relic or hoping for a really sweet titanforged item, that's just simply self inflicted.

Everything is self-inflicted. The question is only: does it exist and does it give you a benefit / advantage? If yes, you can either "self-inflict" it upon yourself or be lazy and see how your guild reacts.

You could be lazy in MOP as well, you didn't have to be an enchanter, you could get an enchant from someone else (contrary to wotlk hodir rep that sold you THE enchant not the pattern), bah, you didn't have to buy valor gear you could just wait for raid drops, you didn't have to get your bonus roll coins if you didn't farm dailies for charms, etc. If you wanted the legendary you could form party and leech rep while others farmed the mogu and so on.

But are we talking about being prepared now or about being lazy? Lazy people run ungemmed, unenchanted, never use flasks, food or pots. I don't think those people worry about any grinds, preparations or burnout.

I'm saying now the game lacks the feeling of "I'm done, finished, completed, I can rest with the feeling of job well done".

[Deleted]

Dear OP. nothing is forced. you dont need to max out AP to clear stuff. Especially when you are in a semi-progress guild with 7/7, 2/3.
the problem is just the attitude. like "omg I am shit when I dont max out AP. omg I am shit when i do not have my bis legendaries". If you
can not live without those things and think the game is getting boring, just take a break and STOP OPENING THESE USELESS THREADS!!!
Show me a game you can play every day for years which won't get boring after some time...do you really want a game like that? A game you can
spend all your lifetime on? Just accept that things just end after some time. All things. And go on with your lives instead of hanging out on game forums and bitch
about how the game used to be etc etc

[Akka]

because geting stronger in mmoprg is FUN. and fun is something which raiders forsaken long time ago.

It's only fun if it's meaningful.
Getting this +1 strength that would sligthly increase your power against this kobold and would, cumulated with this and that, allows you to survive the fight with more health and maybe kill two at the same time instead of fleeing, was fun.
Getting +1500 stat that will kill this guy in two hits like before, but with 500 000 damage overkill on the second hit instead of 150 000, is pointless and stupid.

You just seem to like lining up 0 in your character sheet for the sake of seing big numbers.

[kary]

The two aren't mutually exclusive. You can like the game and it is still a grind. My definition of grind is repetitive activities for a reward. AP and WQ satisfy that because they are repetitive and give rewards. Quests in Suramar aren't a grind because the quests are all different; maybe formulaic, but there's a story and progression so it's not a grind. But doing your daily heroic to get a reward is a grind, even if you find it fun or it only takes a small amount of time.

What's your definition of grinding? It might be different from mine, and that's how people talk past each other.

I definitely don't consider doing one dungeon a day a grind, for starters.
But if that's your take, everything will be a grind.

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The two aren't mutually exclusive. You can like the game and it is still a grind. My definition of grind is repetitive activities for a reward. AP and WQ satisfy that because they are repetitive and give rewards. Quests in Suramar aren't a grind because the quests are all different; maybe formulaic, but there's a story and progression so it's not a grind. But doing your daily heroic to get a reward is a grind, even if you find it fun or it only takes a small amount of time.

What's your definition of grinding? It might be different from mine, and that's how people talk past each other.

I definitely don't consider doing one dungeon a day a grind, for starters.
But if that's your take, everything will be a grind.

For me, grinding begins when/where the entertainment takes a backseat to the goal. When you're doing things ad-nauseum for a drop or currency. Doing 1-2 dungeons a day because you like dungeons isn't grinding(to me), but sitting down and saying "im not gonna stop doing x until I get y," or "i'm gonna do a for b" is grinding.

[crusadernero]

Well atleast we have something to work on. I dont think you really NEED 30+ on your wep to be viable in lets say the current raids on HC. if you are pushing mythic, then maybe you have to, but those are few.

Im 28 on my dps spec and around 30 on my tankspec. Been playing on and off since release. Sometimes for hours each week, some weeks none. Completed one raid on HC. Been doing hcs and mythic dungeons and quests that are out in the world.

But for me, I like the quests. I have started to grow tierd of WQ, so I dont do them as often. No stress, the xpac is fairly new.


What is considered a grind these days anyway? Most stuff you do in wow could be looked as a grind.

[Akka]

Indeed. This is what people wanted. The feedback during WoD was:

We wanted the vanilla-style thing where selection of class/spec mattered. Where switching your main was a huge thing that required insane amounts of grinding gear.
We wanted vanilla style talent trees, with 1-2% increases per point. We wanted a system that would require you to go out into the world to get materials for consumables and not just sit in the garrison.

Blizzard listened. We got it.
It sucks. I really hope Blizzard never listens to the players again.

No we didn't. Vanilla was vastly different from Legion in every single ways.

[Marrilaife]

Waitwaitwait. So if I farmed out the Insane title in Wotlk+Cata, despite it being long and repetitive, jsut because it wasnt hard, it wasnt really a grind?
Farming mats is not a grind because it's not hard?

I guess he meant hard not in a way of "complicated, difficult, requiring skill" but as "hard to endure, chore, tiring".

Working in a field or at assembly line is "hard work" because it's tiring and taxing even if it's considered "unskilled labour".

[Akka]

I notice that a lot actually when people talk about vanilla in particular they tend to describe a video game that has little in common with vanilla wow.

You noticed it, too ?
As I said in several threads, people speaking about Vanilla tend to be people who have no clue about it, and just repeat the clichés they saw on forums.

[Deleted]

No we didn't. Vanilla was vastly different from Legion in every single ways.

Correct, Vanilla was an even more unbalanced piece of shit then Legion will ever be.

[Banard]

Completed Suramar - that's a grind.
834 WQ - that's a grind. not 4 a day. More like 8 a day.

Lots of raiding in 3 modes. LFR/Normal/Heroic. That's a grind.

More importantly please do tell when you reached level 30 on your first weapon.

grind, grind , grind? Dude STFO go somewhere else. That is doing content. WQ/Dungeons/Raid is not a grind that is playing the game.

gameplay is not a grind....a grind is doing the same thing repetitively over and over for hours on end is a grind. Lots of raiding modes? He did what 1 of each raid a month of the xpac? That is grinding? He not even doing it weekly, 800+ wqs across mutiple toons ...that's not grinding that just gameplay.

Completed suramar? That's a grind>? Doing a engaging and very interesting quest line...once isn't a grind. Some of blizzard best story telling.

This player Woozie don't even come close to the word grind.

[Merie]

I did not complain about a lack of things to do in WoD because One: WoW token was 15,000g (it's like 58,000 now) with treasure hunter traits and garrison missions affording me three or four a month basically rendering the game free and Two: When I finished with improving my character and alts instead of whining about it I moved on. I caught up with Old Republic which I also liked and hadn't played in a year. I started playing Wii U games I had been neglecting. etc.

Having one game where you can spend ALL your time playing new and rich content would be amazing, but it does not exist. That's the game WoW fans want but Blizzard could not possibly deliver, so they make the same amount of content as WoD but pad it out further. It's the same as what happened with Cata going into Panda, people complained there wasn't enough to do in Cata so Blizzard was like Fine. Now instead of getting 140 valors for doing a random you get 70. Instead of rep gear now just taking rep, now it takes justice points too. Same amount of content, halved amount of progress. Twice as much time playing? Yep. That's perhaps good for hardcore players living in their mom's basement looking to pad out their life doing nothing but playing a single game. It rather sucks for people like me that don't want to grind twice as much as last xpack for the same reward. That just makes me want to not even bother.

[KaPe]

You noticed it, too ?
As I said in several threads, people speaking about Vanilla tend to be people who have no clue about it, and just repeat the clichés they saw on forums.

Nah, can't be. I'm pretty sure every single one of those posters grinded Felwood, Blasted Lands, Onyxia/ZG buffs, Dark Runes, farmed resistance gear and flasked in every raid. In their spare time, they personally reached Rank 14. After all, there were so many hardcore raiders in vanilla and hundreds of guilds have cleared Naxx. It's only natural we have dozens of players still posting about it after ten years. People wouldn't lie on the Internet.

[Elim Garak]

g
Completed suramar? That's a grind>? Doing a engaging and very interesting quest line...once isn't a grind. Some of blizzard best story telling.

That you cannot do without reputation. That's where the grind comes in. Enjoy.

[kary]

Nah, can't be. I'm pretty sure every single one of those posters grinded Felwood, Blasted Lands, Onyxia/ZG buffs, Dark Runes, farmed resistance gear and flasked in every raid. In their spare time, they personally reached Rank 14. After all, there were so many hardcore raiders in vanilla and hundreds of guilds have cleared Naxx. It's only natural we have dozens of players still posting about it after ten years. People wouldn't lie on the Internet.

I remember my pvp career in vanilla *looks back fondly*
Getting to rank 6 and then trolling in the officer's quarters.
Good times.

[Saracens]

Enough of the personal attacks and bickering. Stay on topic please, and thank you.

[Deleted]

grind, grind , grind? Dude STFO go somewhere else. That is doing content. WQ/Dungeons/Raid is not a grind that is playing the game.

gameplay is not a grind....a grind is doing the same thing repetitively over and over for hours on end is a grind. Lots of raiding modes? He did what 1 of each raid a month of the xpac? That is grinding? He not even doing it weekly, 800+ wqs across mutiple toons ...that's not grinding that just gameplay.

Completed suramar? That's a grind>? Doing a engaging and very interesting quest line...once isn't a grind. Some of blizzard best story telling.

This player Woozie don't even come close to the word grind.

Thats the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me .. thanks you :'-).
Now let me get the tears from my eyes :'-).

[damonskye]

You only need 34 items on your weapon if you're one of those far-at-the-top progression guilds looking for world firsts. You only need to farm 4 hours a day if you fit that category.

Otherwise, you can be a casual day-player who may raid once or twice a week and be totally fine.

There was literally nothing to do for the last 18 months of WoD. There is still plenty to do in Legion. I'm totally fine with the direction they've taken the game (except I want mythic +0 dungeons on the dungeon finder.)

[Banard]

What facts? Do I need to remind you about the topic? I hate to repeat myself but here goes the 3rd time

Artifact Power grind. Doing it slow doesn't mean it's not a grind. Liking to do it - doesn't mean it's not a grind. Not feeling like it's a grind - doesn't mean it's not a grind. Having poor memory doesn't mean it's not a grind. Getting to level 30 in two months IS a grind as well. Just FASTER with more /played.

Yes and no. Its a grind only if you play it. If you sitting back and playing the game and ignoring it then it isn't a grind. It is onyl a grind if you GO OUT OF YOUR WAY AND ALLOCATED YOUR TIME FARMING AP.

The issue is with the current set up mythic players feel they need to grind...and there getting burnt out. Those raiders who log just to raid now need to log outside of raiding...there getting burnt out.

To the causal masses no one cares about AP. They get it just playing the game. So to the masses it ain't a grind.

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That you cannot do without reputation. That's where the grind comes in. Enjoy.

Suramar rep a grind? What fucking game have you been playing for 12+ years? I have every single faction exalted....if it can be exalted its exalted.

Suramar a grind? Go grab the insane title....teleport back in time and grind out the white tiger mount... go to WOD and get the red hell boar...grind...grind? Go to MoP and get 9,999 dino bones at level. Get some perspective...suramar a grind.... /facepalm

ohh and as i said in my original post, Surmar was a enjoyment -storywise. (god i hate that city) but story wise, it has been fantastic.

[Deleted]

That you cannot do without reputation. That's where the grind comes in. Enjoy.

And you just decided to change the "reason" for grind again after you lost the argument.

Please just provide us with the facts of what EXACTLY the grind is so we can actually discuss the "grind".
What exactly is the "grind" as you have been proven wrong on everything you called a "grind" so far.
@Terran, could you be more specific to who you are referring? I don't feel this is directed towards me but id like to not be banned.

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You only need 34 items on your weapon if you're one of those far-at-the-top progression guilds looking for world firsts. You only need to farm 4 hours a day if you fit that category.

Otherwise, you can be a casual day-player who may raid once or twice a week and be totally fine.

There was literally nothing to do for the last 18 months of WoD. There is still plenty to do in Legion. I'm totally fine with the direction they've taken the game (except I want mythic +0 dungeons on the dungeon finder.)

I can live with that, they are really piss easy at this stage.

[EyeceeA52]

You know the Pokemon theme?

"I wanna be the very best, that no one ever was"

That's me. I want to be the very best that no one ever was. But in order to compete with the very best, I have to sit on my CPU every day for 12+ hours and do repeatable content to get AP/RNG Legendary, then go into raid and compete with people who have nothing to do, or simply better luck. Luck part I can get over believe it or not. RNG is life. I accept that. What I don't accept is the unlimited ability of some people to play and farm and get astronomically ahead of me if I decide to take a break.

Or the fact that leveling an alt isn't practical. Why level an alt? So I can just go out and farm AP on it as well?

What happen to the World of Warcraft where you flew around don't random daily quests, mining and herbing because it ment something and you can make money. Farming primals, mounts, dusts, making gold, raiding 1 content, but good content. When did World of Warcraft forsake itself. Every expansion starts of great but then the cracks appear and there seems to be no fix. Winter comes and the cracks expand.

Changing so many classes in the middle of the teir/expansion. Whose bright idea was that? "We need to so something?!?!"

Overall, to this day, WoTLK and BC were the best. Legion started off as one of the best, smooth, no issues, fun. But it slowly turned into a nightmare, a nightmare known as Repeatable AP Grind.

Couldn't we have a daily AP limiit or something PRACTICAL?????