Nighthold rewards a bit low?

[styil]

I feel like we're going to have another ToV situation with the Nighthold rewards. And yes, before you say "TIER TIER TIER!!!!", there are 10+ other item slots to consider.

By the time Nighthold launches, we'd be at least 4 months into Legion, which so far has had the following rewards on offer:
- Normal/Heroic ToV rewards 860-865+/875-880+
- Heroic/Mythic EN rewards 865+/880+
- Weekly Mythic 7-8/10 caches reward 870+/880+ loot

Then we have Nighthold:
- The first 4 NormalHeroic Nighthold bosses drop 870/885
- The next 5 Normal/Heroic Nighthold bosses drop 875/890

Anyone else feel that the Nighthold rewards feel a bit on the low side? Most people that have dabbled into Mythic+ and raiding (just pugging) would surely be in the 860's and close to 870 by now. The upgrades from Nighthold would be very marginal, especially given the 4 months of Titanforged opportunities.

i think that the Nighthold rewards should be bumped up a bit (+5 item levels across the board) to distinguish Nighthold as the premiere destination for upgrades. The last thing we need is another raid undermined by the lackluster rewards overall.

[MV Kaa]

I feel like we're going to have another ToV situation with the Nighthold rewards. And yes, before you say "TIER TIER TIER!!!!", there are 10+ other item slots to consider.

By the time Nighthold launches, we'd be at least 4 months into Legion, which so far has had the following rewards on offer:
- Normal/Heroic ToV rewards 860-865+/875-880+
- Heroic/Mythic EN rewards 865+/880+
- Weekly Mythic 7-8/10 caches reward 870+/880+ loot

Then we have Nighthold:
- The first 4 NormalHeroic Nighthold bosses drop 870/885
- The next 5 Normal/Heroic Nighthold bosses drop 875/890

Anyone else feel that the Nighthold rewards feel a bit on the low side? Most people that have dabbled into Mythic+ and raiding (just pugging) would surely be in the 860's and close to 870 by now. The upgrades from Nighthold would be very marginal, especially given the 4 months of Titanforged opportunities.

i think that the Nighthold rewards should be bumped up a bit (+5 item levels across the board) to distinguish Nighthold as the premiere destination for upgrades. The last thing we need is another raid undermined by the lackluster rewards overall.

Yea that does seem low. As someone in mythic raid/+ gear, Im already sitting at 893 ilvl, pretty much making heroic pointless to do unless im hoping for wf/tf. I think Heroic should be atleast 900

[Nitros14]

A result of their idiotic unlimited titanforging loot model is that progression is devalued. Every tier needs to be ridiculously above the last to be meaningful.

In addition there's toxic incentives to endlessly farm old things for trinkets and items that remain best when titanforged which creates severe burnout and lack of enjoyment.

[deadman1]

It feels like NH was supposed to come out earlier, closer to EN so that it wouldn't be that noticeable.

[ghostblade]

I feel like we're going to have another ToV situation with the Nighthold rewards. And yes, before you say "TIER TIER TIER!!!!", there are 10+ other item slots to consider.

By the time Nighthold launches, we'd be at least 4 months into Legion, which so far has had the following rewards on offer:
- Normal/Heroic ToV rewards 860-865+/875-880+
- Heroic/Mythic EN rewards 865+/880+
- Weekly Mythic 7-8/10 caches reward 870+/880+ loot

Then we have Nighthold:
- The first 4 NormalHeroic Nighthold bosses drop 870/885
- The next 5 Normal/Heroic Nighthold bosses drop 875/890

Anyone else feel that the Nighthold rewards feel a bit on the low side? Most people that have dabbled into Mythic+ and raiding (just pugging) would surely be in the 860's and close to 870 by now. The upgrades from Nighthold would be very marginal, especially given the 4 months of Titanforged opportunities.

i think that the Nighthold rewards should be bumped up a bit (+5 item levels across the board) to distinguish Nighthold as the premiere destination for upgrades. The last thing we need is another raid undermined by the lackluster rewards overall.

okay lets fix that a little. Nighthold has 3 different Ilvl per difficulty.
Normal/heroic/mythic First 3 bosses are 870/885/900
Normal/Heroic/Mythic Mid tier 5 bosses are 875/890/905
Normal/Heroic Mythic Gul'dan is 880/895/910

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

I don't play the game for loot, i play it to beat hard/challening encounters...

Either way, im currently 882 ilvl, and nighthold heroic drops 895? mythic drops 905. Seems rewarding enough for me.

[Otimus]

I'm going to guess it will get an ilvl boost like TOV did.

I haven't touched anything but LFR and Heroic dungeons and I'm sitting at 872.


(Also, IMHO, EN should have came out a week after launch at the latest, NH should have came out when TOV did, and TOV should be coming out when NH is)

[Thereaperszone]

In game it shows 905+ for all mythic bosses

[Zyky]

okay lets fix that a little. Nighthold has 3 different Ilvl per difficulty.
Normal/heroic/mythic First 3 bosses are 870/885/900
Normal/Heroic/Mythic Mid tier 5 bosses are 875/890/905
Normal/Heroic Mythic Gul'dan is 880/895/910

This and that's only baseline. It can still Titanforge up to I believe they said the new cap would be 925IL. Keep in mind heroic will still be granting the items needed to upgrade the legendaries too to 940IL.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I'm guessing we will replace our TF EN gear with TF NH gear, not the baseline stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

Keep in mind heroic will still be granting the items needed to upgrade the legendaries too to 940IL.

That's what I'm talking about. Without new traits for our artifacts, upgrading our legendaries may be our single biggest power boost.

[Niwes]

A result of their idiotic unlimited titanforging loot model is that progression is devalued. Every tier needs to be ridiculously above the last to be meaningful.

In addition there's toxic incentives to endlessly farm old things for trinkets and items that remain best when titanforged which creates severe burnout and lack of enjoyment.

i disagree with the op. that big ilvl gaps always result in bad stuff, like everything and her mother is ridicoules out-dps'ed. it trivializes content, push the extreme gaps in balance more forward, and a lot of other bad implications (you can get them by thinking a while about it, or reading all that threads existing since years).

thats why i quoted the guy above. he is absolutelly right. blizzard seems to have no math ppl working there.

first they introduced a 4th skill level, what increases the item level spiral more (the gap between pre-lfr gear and after-myth gear is brutal). that alone ended up in absurd high ilvl gaps, to let feel rewards meaningful for every skill level.

second they introduced warforged. increasing the spiral and the gaps once more.

and now they introduced warforged and titanforged, what a) greylines the gaps and b) once more increase them and so the spiral.

the result ? they need to do huuuuge steps in item level increase, so rewards can offer a meaningful upgrade feeling (what op stated). with all that fukin giant downsides that come with big ilvl gaps.

thats all totally forseable. for me it really looks like blizzards system devs are really complete idiots. they negate their own effectiveness and counter-work to their systems, when/while trying to improve their systems. how dumb...

that ppl at blizzard derailing a MMO into some hack-and-slay RNG game, with adding all the above nonsense, and additionally adding absurd RNG dependence, that ppl are a) stupid as hell and b) will kill their own product over time. bc when ppl wanna play hack-and-slay games, they fukin buy hack-n-slay games! they do not pay 15 bugs a month for them. or would you really pay 15 bugs for D3 a month ???

thats such sad, since WoW has a great MMO platform and great MMO potential, since it started. but hey, fuck it up...

that idiots...

[RestoChango]

Yea that does seem low. As someone in mythic raid/+ gear, Im already sitting at 893 ilvl, pretty much making heroic pointless to do unless im hoping for wf/tf. I think Heroic should be atleast 900

You have legendaries and your weapon propping that ilvl up.

I had a look at a few of our raiders which have similar ilvls and they all have a few pieces of gear that will get upgraded in heroic even outside of tier which will be big (I'm 890 and there are a few upgrades in there for me).

[Nevcairiel]

You have legendaries and your weapon propping that ilvl up.

Thats mostly it, two 910 legendaries and one 905+ weapon just inflate your character sheet item level beyond what your gear otherwise typically has. Goes down about 5 points or so I would wager when you exclude those, and suddenly the gear seems much more meaningful already.

On top of that, if you are a Mythic raider, do you really need to get upgrades from Heroic? Those would just be on farm for you anyway, seems ok to be able to skip those, and instead get upgrades from the same difficulty you progressed before - actually meaningful upgrades from meaningful content, and not just split-farmed for a week.

[Echocho]

You're not supposed to go after the base items, you should already have gear equal to that. It's the titanforged items that offer upgrades.

[Deleted]

I feel like we're going to have another ToV situation with the Nighthold rewards. And yes, before you say "TIER TIER TIER!!!!", there are 10+ other item slots to consider.

By the time Nighthold launches, we'd be at least 4 months into Legion, which so far has had the following rewards on offer:
- Normal/Heroic ToV rewards 860-865+/875-880+
- Heroic/Mythic EN rewards 865+/880+
- Weekly Mythic 7-8/10 caches reward 870+/880+ loot

Then we have Nighthold:
- The first 4 NormalHeroic Nighthold bosses drop 870/885
- The next 5 Normal/Heroic Nighthold bosses drop 875/890

Anyone else feel that the Nighthold rewards feel a bit on the low side? Most people that have dabbled into Mythic+ and raiding (just pugging) would surely be in the 860's and close to 870 by now. The upgrades from Nighthold would be very marginal, especially given the 4 months of Titanforged opportunities.

i think that the Nighthold rewards should be bumped up a bit (+5 item levels across the board) to distinguish Nighthold as the premiere destination for upgrades. The last thing we need is another raid undermined by the lackluster rewards overall.

this statement and your signature combined, tells me you dont think things through very well... let me explain your signature. Raid bosses are being overly complicated because there are too few NEW mechanics, so they have to reuse every frickin mechanic in the game which, ill say it again, means things get really complicated. but overall there are not really any NEW raid mechanics.
ill bet u will try to argue that im wrong. which just proves my point.

[Deleted]

quality of items =/= ilvl
quality of items > ilvl

[Deleted]

I feel like we're going to have another ToV situation with the Nighthold rewards. And yes, before you say "TIER TIER TIER!!!!", there are 10+ other item slots to consider.

By the time Nighthold launches, we'd be at least 4 months into Legion, which so far has had the following rewards on offer:
- Normal/Heroic ToV rewards 860-865+/875-880+
- Heroic/Mythic EN rewards 865+/880+
- Weekly Mythic 7-8/10 caches reward 870+/880+ loot
.

You fail to acknowledge Mythic TOV loot which is 890/895 whereas Mythic EN is only 880. Otherwise it's fine because mythic NH drops 905+

Edit: Just to tilt you, TIER TIER TIER, and trinkets.

[l33t]

So, once more we have the idiocy of having variable ilvl drops from raid, like hfc had? Sigh, looks like blizzard never learns, do they?

[Donald Hellscream]

I don't see the problem, the ilvl is higher than the previous raids, sure the baseline ilvl is not a massive difference but that is deliberate.

Also legendaries and your artifact weapon does prop up your ilvl by quite a bit so you can't really use that as an indication for whether or not the gear is going to be upgrades or not.

Hell the baseline for heroic mode is 885, which is higher than the base ilvl of both Mythic EN and heroic ToV. If you are sporting Mythic ToV gear you likely don't give a fuck about heroic mode beyond possibly trinkets and tier gear so even then everything will likely be upgrades.

[Temp name]

So, once more we have the idiocy of having variable ilvl drops from raid, like hfc had? Sigh, looks like blizzard never learns, do they?

Why is that a problem..?