LoTM is actually good

[Rikkycurtis]

Hey guys,

I have seen so many people bash on LoTM and it's really frustrating that people can't see out of their circle of bubble. Try it and you will see. Use LoTM in your raids. It is so strong. Look at top logs on first Mythic Helya runs who use LoTM heavily. Do not fall for the trap that many people say to not use LoTM. I find the best use of it is to use it right after holy shock for nuke amounts of heals as HS does not proc global cd thus you can top of almost everyone at 20% health right away.

What are your opinions guys?

be constructive

7.1.5 legendary cloak just proves how strong LoTM will become

Cheers!

[Enervate]

I must agree with my esteemed colleague. I have replaced all spells with a cast time on my bar with LotM.

[AtomicT]

I wonder who heals the damage you take from spamming it like a moron....?

Please refrain from insulting other forum users.

[Rikkycurtis]

I wonder who heals the damage you take from spamming it like a moron....?

Healers.. it's their job

[dnicks17]

Helya checks a lot of the boxes that make LoTM effective.

I wouldn't recommend trying to work heavy use of it into any other current fight.

[Amantino]

Kill some bosses before trying to voice your opinions.


Useless thread

Please remember to stay on topic and contribute to the thread when posting.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Be constructive? You just said that a situational ability is good in other situations, when it in fact is only useful in a very few situations.

My opinion is that LotM is shit in most situations considering it has a health cost tacked on top of the mana cost. This opinion is likely shared by most people who play Holy, as LotM is a situational ability.

[EzG]

LotM is great on Helya... well that's about it. I implore you to find any other boss where several top parses are spamming the hell out of the spell. It is not "so good" as it effectively is half a heal. You do half of a FoL if you take into account the damage you take. It was fantastic when on the move or if people are too close to death and HS is on cool down. Helya is a fight where a good deal of people might be close to death several times and you might use it that much more, but the remaining 90% of bosses this is not going to be a constant case. You might see a handful here and there, but nowhere near you should see on Helya.

[pendragyn]

I've been messing around with it a lot lately. You can actually use nothing but instants if you bestow faith/holy shock yourself and use yourself as a health battery to cast lotm on everyone else. Holy prism/Light of Dawn raid damage. Use Divine Shield/Divine Protection liberally for reduced lotm self damage. You never have to stop and cast. Less chance of anyone dying while casting a spell. It's good hps and efficient, not optimal, but good. It's a lot of fun in heroics/farmed mythics/some mythic+ dungeons. You'll probably kill yourself on mythic progression. I'm a bit surprised people are getting away with it on mythic helya but more power to them.

[Rikkycurtis]

I've been messing around with it a lot lately. You can actually use nothing but instants if you bestow faith/holy shock yourself and use yourself as a health battery to cast lotm on everyone else. Holy prism/Light of Dawn raid damage. Use Divine Shield/Divine Protection liberally for reduced lotm self damage. You never have to stop and cast. Less chance of anyone dying while casting a spell. It's good hps and efficient, not optimal, but good. It's a lot of fun in heroics/farmed mythics/some mythic+ dungeons. You'll probably kill yourself on mythic progression. I'm a bit surprised people are getting away with it on mythic helya but more power to them.

See, this guy gets it. Your play style drastically changes. From a passive healing play style to a movable heal amplifier. Self heal Beacon self, LoTM everything else. People in this thread won't even try new ideas and just say it's bad thinking they are right. How do u know if it works or not if you never done it before?

[stolker]

Because it has a ton less theoretical throughput even if you play it perfectly, and the stand-still-and-have-maximum-throughput style of healing has proven to work? lol people with an iq below 50 really shouldn't be allowed to post

Please refrain from insulting other forum users.

[dnicks17]

See, this guy gets it. Your play style drastically changes. From a passive healing play style to a movable heal amplifier. Self heal Beacon self, LoTM everything else. People in this thread won't even try new ideas and just say it's bad thinking they are right. How do u know if it works or not if you never done it before?

It's been tried and there's a reason it isn't being done on other fights.

Do you actually think that you've found some hidden op play style that no other hpal has thought of?

[Rikkycurtis]

Because it has a ton less theoretical throughput even if you play it perfectly, and the stand-still-and-have-maximum-throughput style of healing has proven to work? lol people with an iq below 50 really shouldn't be allowed to post

You talk about this less healing throughput but can you elaborate what you mean by that? What are the numbers that prove it has less throughput, and less that what exactly?

[Gevoth]

There's no having this conversation, OP. It's a much cooler and more useful spell than it gets credit for. It's that simple. Leave it at that.

[wombats23]

FoL: 450 SP * 1.1 (trait) * 1.64 (BoF) = 811.8 SP per cast
LotM: (500 SP * 1.15 (trait)) / 2 = 287.5 SP per cast

HPM:
FoL: 811.8/16 = 50.7375 HPM
LotM: 287.5/7.5 = 38.3333 HPM

say you use BotL instead: FoL: (450 * 1.1 * 1.4)/16 = 43.3125 HPM
say with BotL, you heal your beacon target: FoL: (450*1.1)/(16*.7)= 44.1964 HPM

the whole notion of comboing HS into LotM is stupid. unless that LotM was going to be the literal difference between life and death on your target, what benefit is the combo actually doing? unless you absolutely cannot stand still, you'd achieve more healing for better HPM just standing still and casting FoL, and since you have to wait for the GCD to resolve when using LotM, you'd be effectively spending the same amount of time casting that LotM or FoL.

if you want to use LotM, go right ahead. however, know that unless a 1.5 second cast time would lead to death or you absolutely cannot stand still, there is always a more optimal spell to use.

There's no having this conversation, OP. It's a much cooler and more useful spell than it gets credit for. It's that simple. Leave it at that.

why even post in a thread where the OP is trying to encourage conversation and actively shut down conversation. great post.

[Gevoth]

why even post in a thread where the OP is trying to encourage conversation and actively shut down conversation. great post.

This discussion has been had many times already on this forum and the official one. The conversation has been the same since day one. Some people see it as a useful part of their toolkit others see it only as a wasted global. What's left to discuss?

I must agree with my esteemed colleague. I have replaced all spells with a cast time on my bar with LotM.

This one is totally serious. No mockery to be had at all.

I wonder who heals the damage you take from spamming it like a moron....?

Essentially saying; "You're a moron." Some discussion to be had here.

Kill some bosses before trying to voice your opinions. Useless thread

"STFU noob." Classic discussion furthering mastery technique.

Be constructive? You just said that a situational ability is good in other situations, when it in fact is only useful in a very few situations. My opinion is that LotM is shit in most situations considering it has a health cost tacked on top of the mana cost. This opinion is likely shared by most people who play Holy, as LotM is a situational ability.

"The button is shit." So if someone uses a shit button what's that make them? Shit? No... an asshole. ba-dum-bump

LotM is great on Helya... well that's about it. I implore you to find any other boss where several top parses are spamming the hell out of the spell. It is not "so good" as it effectively is half a heal. You do half of a FoL if you take into account the damage you take. It was fantastic when on the move or if people are too close to death and HS is on cool down. Helya is a fight where a good deal of people might be close to death several times and you might use it that much more, but the remaining 90% of bosses this is not going to be a constant case. You might see a handful here and there, but nowhere near you should see on Helya.

One of the few good replies. Actually does promote discussion. Saying mythic Helya is some odd exception where people actually take damage is off. Damage is relative to your health pool and damage taken is not determined by gear alone. It's also determined by skill in positioning and movement as well the use of cooldowns and quality of these things in the people you're playing with as well. A lesser group can make a heroic boss feel like a mythic one pretty easily, but Amitino already shut that down.

Because it has a ton less theoretical throughput even if you play it perfectly, and the stand-still-and-have-maximum-throughput style of healing has proven to work? lol people with an iq below 50 really shouldn't be allowed to post

"You're a retard." Much discourse.

It's been tried and there's a reason it isn't being done on other fights. Do you actually think that you've found some hidden op play style that no other hpal has thought of?

One of the nicer ones.

the whole notion of comboing HS into LotM is stupid. unless that LotM was going to be the literal difference between life and death on your target, what benefit is the combo actually doing? unless you absolutely cannot stand still, you'd achieve more healing for better HPM just standing still and casting FoL, and since you have to wait for the GCD to resolve when using LotM, you'd be effectively spending the same amount of time casting that LotM or FoL. if you want to use LotM, go right ahead. however, know that unless a 1.5 second cast time would lead to death or you absolutely cannot stand still, there is always a more optimal spell to use.

"You're stupid, but I understand because you're a spastic." just screams "Let's discuss this further!" in a cool holier than thou patronizing kind of way.

lotm is gr8 i use it every global any1 saying otherwise is noob

More mockery. Bringing the train back around to Discussionville. Toot! Toot!

You're right. I was totally out of line telling the guy the hate for LotM is too extreme to overcome on the forums.

[Deleted]

lotm is gr8 i use it every global any1 saying otherwise is noob

[TEHPALLYTANK]

"The button is shit." So if someone uses a shit button what's that make them? Shit? No... an asshole. ba-dum-bump

So you complain about people not driving discussion...then proceed to take four words entirely out of context and ignore what my post actually said. I hope you can see the irony there.

More often than not, I'm better off just playing my Rdruid in situations where LotM would be worthwhile.

[dnicks17]

FoL: 450 SP * 1.1 (trait) * 1.64 (BoF) = 811.8 SP per cast
LotM: (500 SP * 1.15 (trait)) / 2 = 287.5 SP per cast

HPM:
FoL: 811.8/16 = 50.7375 HPM
LotM: 287.5/7.5 = 38.3333 HPM

say you use BotL instead: FoL: (450 * 1.1 * 1.4)/16 = 43.3125 HPM
say with BotL, you heal your beacon target: FoL: (450*1.1)/(16*.7)= 44.1964 HPM

the whole notion of comboing HS into LotM is stupid. unless that LotM was going to be the literal difference between life and death on your target, what benefit is the combo actually doing? unless you absolutely cannot stand still, you'd achieve more healing for better HPM just standing still and casting FoL, and since you have to wait for the GCD to resolve when using LotM, you'd be effectively spending the same amount of time casting that LotM or FoL.

if you want to use LotM, go right ahead. however, know that unless a 1.5 second cast time would lead to death or you absolutely cannot stand still, there is always a more optimal spell to use.

On top of that, the FoL will have another 40% healing added onto your Beacon(assuming you aren't healing your Beacon) while LotM won't.

[GT4]

FoL: 450 SP * 1.1 (trait) * 1.64 (BoF) = 811.8 SP per cast
LotM: (500 SP * 1.15 (trait)) / 2 = 287.5 SP per cast

HPM:
FoL: 811.8/16 = 50.7375 HPM
LotM: 287.5/7.5 = 38.3333 HPM

say you use BotL instead: FoL: (450 * 1.1 * 1.4)/16 = 43.3125 HPM
say with BotL, you heal your beacon target: FoL: (450*1.1)/(16*.7)= 44.1964 HPM

the whole notion of comboing HS into LotM is stupid. unless that LotM was going to be the literal difference between life and death on your target, what benefit is the combo actually doing? unless you absolutely cannot stand still, you'd achieve more healing for better HPM just standing still and casting FoL, and since you have to wait for the GCD to resolve when using LotM, you'd be effectively spending the same amount of time casting that LotM or FoL.

if you want to use LotM, go right ahead. however, know that unless a 1.5 second cast time would lead to death or you absolutely cannot stand still, there is always a more optimal spell to use.



why even post in a thread where the OP is trying to encourage conversation and actively shut down conversation. great post.

You're ignoring at least two aspects here:
1) With legendary shoulders, 30% of the additional healing you take from using LotM will be distributed to your beacons, reducing the effective self-damage by 30%.
2) Not all healing is equal. If you're at full HP with hots, atonement, healing rain, etc. affecting you anyway, all of those will overheal you. LotM's damage will in this case not cost any additional effective healing but simply result in overhealing being converted to effective healing. Similarly, a lot of your beacon heal will be overheal whereas LotM overheal can be directly controlled by yourself.

Taking only 1) into account, its HPM will already be comparable to FoL if you have the shoulders. Taking 2) into account as well, it can easily surpass FoL in HPM and even rival it in effective HPS in some cases.

Obviously it's also instant cast, meaning you can use it as a filler when moving (e.g. when moving from orbs on helya) and it heals immediately instead of after a delay (e.g. to help keep the flame lick target alive on guarm).

tl;dr: When using LotM intelligently, it can be much more useful than you're making it look like.

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On top of that, the FoL will have another 40% healing added onto your Beacon(assuming you aren't healing your Beacon) while LotM won't.

He already included that in his calculations.