BBC has received £2m in EU funding in run up to referendum.

[Kalis]

Is this an actual debate or are you playing around?

Ofcourse Stalin was left wing. "Evil" can come in many ways and in any part of the spectrum.

But he really wasnt and thats the point.

There you go Xarkan.

Some people on the left refuse to accept that Stalin was a left winger, some on the right refuse to accept that Hitler was a right winger, those people are revisionists and are trying to distance themselves from infamous people by using their own personal definitions, as opposed to the widely accepted ones.

The left and right are incredibly diverse, I have no issue accepting that some on the right are evil, as I don't subscribe to the same right wing policies that gave them their reputation as evil.

[Glorious Leader]

There you go Xarkan.

Some people on the left refuse to accept that Stalin was a left winger, some on the right refuse to accept that Hitler was a right winger, those people are revisionists and are trying to distance themselves from infamous people by using their own personal definitions, as opposed to the widely accepted ones.

The left and right are incredibly diverse, I have no issue accepting that some on the right are evil, as I don't subscribe to the same right wing policies that gave them their reputation as evil.

Hitler eliminated any part of the party that would have been remotely socialist by the time they got into power. It should be noted that the nazis did try to use the name socialism to gain popular support. The nazis of course purged all that. In the same way the bolsheviks purged any actual left wing elements the minute they got into power in the name of strength at the moment of communist victory. Yes party politics matter. Yes context and history matters. Its very easy to label these groups whatever if you ignore all of that.

Im curious who has "widely accepted" these defintions? Dictionaries and wikipedias are not politicialy aware. They cannt contain sufficient context to give us an accurate representation.

[Deleted]

This threat have moved far away from the original discussion.

[Kalis]

Hitler eliminated any part of the party that would have been remotely socialist by the time they got into power. It should be noted that the nazis did try to use the name socialism to gain popular support. The nazis of course purged all that. In the same way the bolsheviks purged any actual left wing elements the minute they got into power in the name of strength at the moment of communist victory. Yes party politics matter. Yes context and history matters. Its very easy to label these groups whatever if you ignore all of that.

To claim there was no socialist element to Nazi ideals after they got into power is more revisionism.

Im curious who has "widely accepted" these defintions? Dictionaries and wikipedias are not politicialy aware. They cannt contain sufficient context to give us an accurate representation.

Mainstream historical and political works regard Hitler as far right and Stalin as far left, these are the accepted definitions in the English language. It is irrelevant whether dictionaries or encyclopedias are 'politically aware', their role is not political awareness but to provide the mainstream definitions and explanations of what words and terms mean, as such they are excellent sources for what mainstream, i.e. widely accepted, definitions are.

[Xarkan]

Im curious who has "widely accepted" these defintions? Dictionaries and wikipedias are not politicialy aware. They cannt contain sufficient context to give us an accurate representation.

I would assume most stalinist communists would consider it widely accepted. Those stalinists that do not are probably so reactionary they belong in a gulag.

[Deleted]

This is just nonsense, centre right is not alt-right and does not lead to dictatorship, militarised society or war crimes any more than the centre left does. Your political scale is basically 'left or proto-Nazi', it is utterly ridiculous.

I never said every right politics is "Nazi", but actually the alt-right movements invites the right-none center people into their movement as well. In germany, the AFD openly asks right wing fanatics to join their ranks, as like the Identitary movement. Russia is openly nationalistic authocratic, and exports their political agenda like a religion including propaganda and dogms.

Currently, there is no bigger danger for democracy than right wing politics.

[Kalis]

I never said every right politics is "Nazi", but actually the alt-right movements invites the right-none center people into their movement as well. In germany, the AFD openly asks right wing fanatics to join their ranks, as like the Identitary movement. Russia is openly nationalistic authocratic, and exports their political agenda like a religion including propaganda and dogms.

Great, but you thinking everything is alt-right has no basis in reality. You called the Daily Express alt-right before, they existed in their current political stance well before the alt-right movement was a twinkle in whjoever invented it's eye, there is nothing alt about them.

Currently, there is no bigger danger for democracy than right wing politics.

I would say that extremists of all ilks, including people such as yourself, are a danger. You have openly called for an end to free speech if it is speech you dislike, so forgive me if I find your politics utterly abhorrent and hope that they find no place in mainstream political discourse.

[Deleted]

Great, but you thinking everything is alt-right has no basis in reality. You called the Daily Express alt-right before, they existed in their current political stance well before the alt-right movement was a twinkle in whjoever invented it's eye, there is nothing alt about them.

The daily express created fake news even before fake news were a thing. Still someone used their article as an argument for his political right wing ideas.

You are alt right if you follow the ideas of Putin or the american Trumpists. If you dont follow their ideas, you arent. You know yourself best which ideas you advocate in this forums.

An example: What do you think about brexit?

[Kalis]

The daily express created fake news even before fake news were a thing. Still someone used their article as an argument for his political right wing ideas.

You are alt right if you follow the ideas of Putin or the american Trumpists. If you dont follow their ideas, you arent. You know yourself best which ideas you advocate in this forums.

The Express are not alt-right, they are just right wing. They are mostly obsessed with Princess Diana.

All British press, left and right, especially the tabloids, make shit up and would qualify as fake news outlets. That doesn't make the Express, Daily Mail or Sun alt-right, nor does it make the Mirror alt-left.

The alt-right are part of the right wing, just as the far right, Republicans, Thatcherites and One Nation Tories like myself are, but as a dog is a four legged animal, not every animal with four legs is a dog, so not everyone on the right is alt-right and trying to clasify them as such is ludicrous.

An example: What do you think about brexit?

I voted against leaving, but as I respect the democratic will of the British people, then I acknowledge that we must leave and want us to make the best of the hand we are dealt.

Brexit was not solely supported by the alt-right anyway, or even the right, many left wingers supported leaving and many on the right advocated staying. It was primarily class based.

[Glorious Leader]

To claim there was no socialist element to Nazi ideals after they got into power is more revisionism.



Mainstream historical and political works regard Hitler as far right and Stalin as far left, these are the accepted definitions in the English language. It is irrelevant whether dictionaries or encyclopedias are 'politically aware', their role is not political awareness but to provide the mainstream definitions and explanations of what words and terms mean, as such they are excellent sources for what mainstream, i.e. widely accepted, definitions are.

Now thats amussing. What elements of socialism remained after the nazis came into power?

If your going to cite wikipedias, dictionaries ajd or encyclopedias to back up the claim that stalisism represents the far left then yes it matters if they are politically sensitivie. Reductionist definitions to fit a blurb inside a dictionary somewherr is not a convincing argument. Again eho has widely accepted the idea that the communist party was "far left"?

[serenka]

What on earth does any of this nazi/stalin squabbling have to do with the BBC?

[Kalis]

Now thats amussing. What elements of socialism remained after the nazis came into power?

Large scale public works on infrastructure to create employment, his whole schtick was about the 'volk'.

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What on earth does any of this nazi/stalin squabbling have to do with the BBC?

The BBC run programmes on WWII.

Up next is a debate on whether or not the Teletubbies are promoting homophobia.