House GOP moves to weaken independent Ethics watchdog

[CostinR]

Lol! Welcome to the forum which has a lot of Trump haters. No matter what he does, even if it is right and holy, he will be condemned as being evil.

Liberals are just being stupid. This story never had anything to do with Trump, and yet they made it about him anyway. Liberals then complain that Trump did get involved and seemingly stopped the move by the House GOP, because he didn't actually do anything and is taking credit for it.

I mean sure, it's likely Trump did very little, but liberals who screamed about Trump in this whole story should learn a lesson: You made Trump more popular by making the story about him.

Your narrative is a little off, int at it gives Trump credit for everything. That's not realistic, nor accurate. My guess is that's the issue people take with Trumpeteers.

Because attacking voters for the way they voted in a story that had nothing to do with their candidate is a surefire way to win people to your side.

I'm just saying. Trump and his fanatics will use this story for their own ends.

[NYC17]

Liberals are just being stupid. This story never had anything to do with Trump, and yet they made it about him anyway. Liberals then complain that Trump did get involved and seemingly stopped the move by the House GOP, because he didn't actually do anything and is taking credit for it.

I mean sure, it's likely Trump did very little, but liberals who screamed about Trump in this whole story should learn a lesson: You made Trump more popular by making the story about him.



Because attacking voters for the way they voted in a story that had nothing to do with their candidate is a surefire way to win people to your side.

I'm just saying. Trump and his fanatics will use this story for their own ends.

He is the leader of the Republican party. That's a pretty traditional role for presidents. The idea that the leader of a party is being associated with that party isn't really some crazy rabid anti-Trump positions; it's a basic thing. But, you seem to give him credit for everything and nothing all at once. That seems to be the general issue with Trump. The bar is set so extremely low for him.

[Saucexorzski]

He is the leader of the Republican party. That's a pretty traditional role for presidents. The idea that the leader of a party is being associated with that party isn't really some crazy rabid anti-Trump positions; it's a basic thing. But, you seem to give him credit for everything and nothing all at once. That seems to be the general issue with Trump. The bar is set so extremely low for him.

You have to be blind to think trump is a standard of what the GOP wants or desires...Ask Skroe what he thinks of Trump, and that will give you an idea of what the GOP thinks. Hell i bet even W. Bush voted for Hillary.

[NYC17]

You have to be blind to think trump is a standard of what the GOP wants or desires...Ask Skroe what he thinks of Trump, and that will give you an idea of what the GOP thinks. Hell i bet even W. Bush voted for Hillary.

And yet, that doesn't actually matter. He is the leader of his party. He doesn't get a pass because he tweeted "hey guys you're right, but bad timing". It doesn't absolve him of his leadership position.

[CostinR]

He is the leader of the Republican party. That's a pretty traditional role for presidents. The idea that the leader of a party is being associated with that party isn't really some crazy rabid anti-Trump positions; it's a basic thing. But, you seem to give him credit for everything and nothing all at once.

I'm not giving him credit, I'm saying he will take credit for this and come out on top.

Leader? Because apparently Trump has become the full time dictator of the Republican party and they have lost the ability to vote against his desires in Congress. My ass they have. The thing that keeps Trump supporters like myself up at night ain't what the Democrats will do, it's what the assholes in the GOP establishment will do, because Trump supporters fully expect Ryan and McConnell to undermine him.

It doesn't absolve him of his leadership position.

Here's a bloody notion:

- Trump is not liked by the GOP establishment.

- Trump supporters despise the GOP establishment, far more so then the Dem one.

- Trump supporters fully expect Trump to be undermined by the GOP.

Yet in that situation instead of making the conversation about the GOP House you make it about Trump! What a fucking idiotic move.

[NYC17]

I'm not giving him credit, I'm saying he will take credit for this and come out on top.

Leader? Because apparently Trump has become the full time dictator of the Republican party and they have lost the ability to vote against his desires in Congress. My ass they have. The thing that keeps Trump supporters like myself up at night ain't what the Democrats will do, it's what the assholes in the GOP establishment will do, because Trump supporters fully expect Ryan and McConnell to undermine him.



Here's a bloody notion:

- Trump is not liked by the GOP establishment.

- Trump supporters despise the GOP establishment, far more so then the Dem one.

- Trump supporters fully expect Trump to be undermined by the GOP.

Yet in that situation instead of making the conversation about the GOP House you make it about Trump! What a fucking idiotic move.

You gave him credit for stopping it, while at the same time claiming it isn't about him(it is/was considering his campaign tact on this very issue) when it had more to do with the fact that it became apparent today that they were going to have a problem with the votes after the public backlash.

It doesn't matter if Trump is liked, if the GOP hurts his feelings, if he tweets about how unfair they are to him and his wittle cabinet. What matters is that he is the leader of the GOP, and the organization he leads did something pretty stupid. I didn't make it about Trump. The media didn't make it about Trump. Trump made it about Trump when he declared he was going to drain the swamp. When something occurs that is easily associated with that narrative, especially when it's the party he leads, he is going to be connected to it. The conversation is about both of them. They need not be mutually exclusive, because they aren't. No matter how much you wish they were.

[Wells]

So Trump and his supporters get attacked because of a move by the House GOP.

Then Trump attacked the House GOP because of this stupid move and the House GOP falls in line.

Still instead of Trump getting any praise he gets attacked even after this whole situation.

Trump didn't attack the move, he attacked the timing.

- - - Updated - - -

House GOP implements fines for posting photos or videos from the floor.

The new rules call for members to be fined $500 per offense of using their phones to take photos or video in a way that “impairs decorum,” up to a maximum of $2,500.

So between trying to eliminate ethics oversight and hiding actions on the floor as some of their first actions upon taking office I think we can say the tone is set.

[CostinR]

You gave him credit for stopping it

I never did? I know you're trying to twist my words to win your argument,but you might as well bother reading what I had to say.

"I mean sure, it's likely Trump did very little"

When something occurs that is easily associated with that narrative, especially when it's the party he leads, he is going to be connected to it

You're making the story about Trump, about his voters being stupid and even about the GOP instead of the actual issue: That the Ethics Office was about to be gutted.

That was the issue, anyone going further then that is not only being stupid, they are harming the very thing they claim to care about.

I didn't make it about Trump. The media didn't make it about Trump.

Really, clearly I was reading the wrong articles and the wrong comments online. Hell I must have lost my mind when people made posts in this thread slamming Trump fanatics about this move.

[belleflop]

The GOP doesn't want to piss off their new twitter in chief! They need him to blindly trust them when they say they have something to replace the ACA with so they can repeal the ACA on day one. Trump has said he won't be ok with repeal until a replace mechanism is ready to go. This will be the first and last test to me to see if he really cares about America and it's people.

[NYC17]

I never did? I know you're trying to twist my words to win your argument,but you might as well bother reading what I had to say.

"I mean sure, it's likely Trump did very little"



You're making the story about Trump, about his voters being stupid and even about the GOP instead of the actual issue: That the Ethics Office was about to be gutted.

That was the issue, anyone going further then that is not only being stupid, they are harming the very thing they claim to care about.



Really, clearly I was reading the wrong articles and the wrong comments online. Hell I must have lost my mind when people made posts in this thread slamming Trump fanatics about this move.

Christ you are tedious...."Then Trump attacked the House GOP because of this stupid move and the House GOP falls in line."

Is that not you giving Trump credit for getting the House GOP in line? If not, why are you correlating the two? Oops.

As for your selective editing about who made it about Trump, well, you have to selectively edit it considering doing so entirely changes the point into the ridiculous one you're desperate to make.

Here's something for you to carry forward in life, debate, or just in general. Complete thoughts are a thing. It's helpful if you understand them, or if you don't, ask for assistance in understanding them. However, editing them or selecting only the parts you understand in order to alter the statement to your liking is pretty disingenuous...and pathetic. But on the plus side, you fit right in here.

[Lumineus]

- - - Updated - - -

House GOP implements fines for posting photos or videos from the floor.



So between trying to eliminate ethics oversight and hiding actions on the floor as some of their first actions upon taking office I think we can say the tone is set.

Sounds like a great way to hedge operating costs and cut down on electronic annoyances TBH. These fines are chump change to most congressmen, certainly not enough to stop them from gathering evidence to use against each other. Do you really think a three grand fine is going to deter a politician who sees an opportunity to destroy a rival's career?

[CostinR]

However, editing them or selecting only the parts you understand in order to alter the statement to your liking is pretty disingenuous...and pathetic. But on the plus side, you fit right in here.

My first statement in this thread:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post44012751

Tedious are those thinking Trump supporters will allow you to frame the conversation to your liking on a move the GOP did.

[Masark]

Sounds like a great way to hedge operating costs and cut down on electronic annoyances TBH. These fines are chump change to most congressmen, certainly not enough to stop them from gathering evidence to use against each other. Do you really think a three grand fine is going to deter a politician who sees an opportunity to destroy a rival's career?

Depends on how many incidents per incident they can make up. If they say, made each second of recording an individual incident, that could get real expensive quickly.

[Wells]

Sounds like a great way to hedge operating costs and cut down on electronic annoyances TBH.

"impairs decorum" is vague as fuck and impossible not to apply in a partisan manner.

[Omega10]

Trump is not liked by the GOP establishment.

It is sickening that you think that Trump is in any way "anti-Establishment". Oh he will tweak them on a few issues that the establishment allows him to tweak, but that's about it. You seem very young and naive.

[Dug]

So Trump and his supporters get attacked because of a move by the House GOP.

Then Trump attacked the House GOP because of this stupid move and the House GOP falls in line.

Still instead of Trump getting any praise he gets attacked even after this whole situation.

Well I'm not "attacking" anyone I'm just saying he shouldn't be getting full credit for something when... he really isn't against the proposal just the timing of it. Public outcry was far more influential in the decision.

[CostinR]

It is sickening that you think that Trump is in any way "anti-Establishment". Oh he will tweak them on a few issues that the establishment allows him to tweak, but that's about it. You seem very young and naive.

Trump cannot be part of the political establishment since he is literally a corporation. The political establishment is the group of people who get bribed, Trump is part of the donor class who bribes them. You know Wall Street, Military Industrial Complex, Silicon Valley, Big Oil etc. He is part of that particular slice of people. He is not at all different then say Governor Rauner in Illinois or Mayor Bloomberg.

That's why I'd call Trump anti-establishment. Because the establishment is made up of people the corporate donors buy off, Trump is the guy that buys them off. He literally said this during the Republican primaries.

His victory is merely part of a trend where the political establishment and class has fundamentally failed and they have started to be replaced by corporate donors like Rauner, Trump and Bloomberg or by fringe figures like Bernie Sanders.

Remember what Ross Perot was and remember that BOTH Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump were involved in that.

Hillary was the last hurrah of the political establishment and she lost despite being widely supported by the donors, media and political establishment on both sides.

EDIT: You seem to be confusing Trump with Obama who literally did what you just said, but Obama only won the nomination with super delegates. He lost the state vote, he lost the popular vote and he ultimately lost the primaries but won because of party officials.

Trump fought "his" party at every turn. He engineered a hostile takeover.

[ringpriest]

It has been so entertaining on this forum since Trump has been elected. Hitler was a genius when it came to being a political motivator , inspiring people, etc. Thankfully he sucked at military tactics however. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with studying how some are successful in some regards. Does not mean you inspire to become what they did as a person. Suggesting Trump is going to be another Hitler however is ridiculous.

I didn't and I have not - what I have suggested (and what appears to be true) is that Trump will have a great deal in common with Hitler's worse aspects. As for the claim that there's nothing wrong with studying Hitler's "work"... tell it to Trump who immediately denied doing any such thing. (I.e. Methinks the Trumpster doth protest too much; although he probably was covering for something more laughably stupid, like being functionally illiterate - not that he's unable to read, but that he basically doesn't.)

[Revik]

Trump cannot be part of the political establishment since he is literally a corporation. The political establishment is the group of people who get bribed, Trump is part of the donor class who bribes them. You know Wall Street, Military Industrial Complex, Silicon Valley, Big Oil etc. He is part of that particular slice of people. He is not at all different then say Governor Rauner in Illinois or Mayor Bloomberg.

That's why I'd call Trump anti-establishment. Because the establishment is made up of people the corporate donors buy off, Trump is the guy that buys them off. He literally said this during the Republican primaries.

His victory is merely part of a trend where the political establishment and class has fundamentally failed and they have started to be replaced by corporate donors like Rauner, Trump and Bloomberg or by fringe figures like Bernie Sanders.

Remember what Ross Perot was and remember that BOTH Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump were involved in that.

Hillary was the last hurrah of the political establishment and she lost despite being widely supported by the donors, media and political establishment on both sides.

EDIT: You seem to be confusing Trump with Obama who literally did what you just said, but Obama only won the nomination with super delegates. He lost the state vote, he lost the popular vote and he ultimately lost the primaries but won because of party officials.

Trump fought "his" party at every turn. He engineered a hostile takeover.

I believe you have the right idea. Trump doesn't have to worry about the Dems because as Mark Cuban has said they have been turned into the bad guys. The more they yell and scream and claim malfeasance they more they look like the bad guy. The only way out for them is to actually DO good things instead of just talking and complaining which they will be incapable of doing for some years.

In fact the best they could be doing to regain points with the voters is to work with Trump on getting stuff passed because we know (at least everyone should know) is that Trump does not garner unified support of the GOP. If the Dems can help pass stuff along at the chagrin of the GOP establishment that wins points for their side. Unfortunately with the Dems claiming that Trump is evil notion they have going and Obama doing everything he can to hand cuff the president elect it is no likely to happen.

[Dug]

I believe you have the right idea. Trump doesn't have to worry about the Dems because as Mark Cuban has said they have been turned into the bad guys. The more they yell and scream and claim malfeasance they more they look like the bad guy. The only way out for them is to actually DO good things instead of just talking and complaining which they will be incapable of doing for some years.

In fact the best they could be doing to regain points with the voters is to work with Trump on getting stuff passed because we know (at least everyone should know) is that Trump does not garner unified support of the GOP. If the Dems can help pass stuff along at the chagrin of the GOP establishment that wins points for their side. Unfortunately with the Dems claiming that Trump is evil notion they have going and Obama doing everything he can to hand cuff the president elect it is no likely to happen.

What I don't get is why people think if Dems become obstructionists then it is the final nail in their coffin. Will they look like massive hypocrites? Of course... but being obstructionists worked out amazingly for the Republicans. Why it can't work out for the Democrats according to some of you makes no sense. The pendulum will keep swinging.