[PROT] I am trying to Tank but I feel weak.

[KennyB]

Hey all,

I'm pretty new to tanking as Prot. I have been a Holy Paladin for 8+ years now. I've played Prot/Ret on/off but never really got into either. I've done Heroics and I've done I think one Mythic regular. I honestly feel squishy and feel like I'm not really doing my job. I pretty positive that my mechanics are okay, my rotation could be off. One person told me not to spam but space things out like my cooldowns. I have been working on that and it has helped. I'm linking my armory page if anyone can take a look at it and see if any of the gear is really wrong.

Sorry I can't link yet. My characters name is Volkner on Kel'Thuzad US. If you don't mind some tips would be great. Thank you I appreciate it.

[Deleted]

I think it is quite natural to experience this when starting to tank with a paladin in legion.
Before cooldowns we are on the rather squishy sides of the tank lineup, having the lowest hp and little passive mitigation.

The tip you got was right - spamming your cooldowns is not how it works (it used to, but doesnt in legion)
Tanking Paladin is now no longer "spam that basic dps rotation and be happy" but rather "spam the even simpler rotation and handle the tons of cooldowns in your arsenal properly"

If you invest a lot of pratice this can be really rewarding and push you to demigod levels at higher itemlevels.
Basically what you should do for starters to get an idea: Spec into Hand of the Protector and Righteous Protector. Adopt to a basic defensice rotation that starts with a shield of the righteous - wait until the buff drops - wait until your health is <30% - use Hand of the protector to get back up - immidiate shield of the righteous.

Now this is nowhere close to perfect or what will bring you throgh mythic +xx on itself. But it is a basic concept on earlier levels that will teach you how to weave defensice cooldowns. The whole lot of other long time cooldowns is used when you eat up the 3 stacks of SotR using the basic rotation before the fight ends. Basically you use those cooldowns togehter with your selfheal and let SotR recharge in the meantime. When the long CD runs out you are back on track with your basic rotation.
After you get confident with this it is time to match this rotations with critical boss abilitys. Most of them are covered by DBM warnungs "xxxx - defensive" if you manage to have SotR up while those occur and still maintain your defensive rotation on reasonable levels that you learned in step1... Then the squishy paladin will suddenly become rock solid.

In the end you will just have to spam 5 man content over and over again until you dont ever panic and press cooldowns prematurly. You wont learn half as much while raiding. If at some point you master this you can and should begin to care about your group (use your heal on them, counter mechanics eith your blessings). Thats not something you shozld worry about right away tho. Be selfish at first to lower your stresslevels and be stubhorn about your basic defensive rotation until you get confident.

Text full of errors as its written with a smartphone :P

[KennyB]

I appreciate this. I'll keep all this in mind and keep practicing.

[Monzsterr]

The trick I found to Prot paladin really was about optimising use of light of the protector and shield of the righteous.
I highly suggest the righteous protector talent. So.
Shield of the Righteous will then lower the cool down on light of the protector
Judgment will lower the cooldown on Shield of the righteous.
So for LotP, only us it when you drop below about 40% health and you'll bounce right back up, it's a waste to use it a high health, so it has no place in a rotation so to speak.
SotR has 3 charges, so make sure you always are using it before it caps at 3 so that you're not wasting it by always having a charge recharging. But also try not to often use up all 3 charges because you want to always have one ready to go if the boss winds up for a big hit. Use Judgment on cooldown to make regain charges of SotR faster.

I'm a big fan of Bastion of Light as it's terrifying to get caught without any SotR charges so having that in your pocket is always very nice
I prefer final stand for those oh crap moments as it's both an immunity and a mass taunt. It's also crazy good if you ever start doing mythic + dungeons and have to deal with necrotic.

Also it's very important to be able to use big cooldowns light guardian and ardent defender before you need them. If you pull a really big trash pack or the boss is about to go crazy use it before you start losing health. 50% damage reduction doesn't do much good when you're at 20% health, but it's amazing at 90% I had and still have a bad habbit of not using them soon enough because I keep feeling this need to keep them for later in case I need them. They come back quickly, just use them. Besides if you have Final Stand for the bubble taunt you can sit on that for the oh crap panic moments and use the other big cool downs more frequently.

[Deleted]

Btw are you holding aggro on all mobs during bubble is finished?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

First of all rest assured that you have chosen an excellent spec to tank with. Once you learn it, you will be able to handle any challenge in current content.

HotP is good unless you expect to need a bubble taunt (necrotic). Most times the extra self-heals are more useful. Spec Righteous Protector for raid bosses, but go with Last Defender for 5-mans. That way the more you pull the tougher you'll be.

Always reserve 1 charge of SotR for when you're expecting big hits. Often you will get warnings on screen "use defensive" - that's what SotR is for. Use Ardent Defender or Eye of Tyr when you need a defensive but SotR is on cd. Use GoAK when Ardent Defender and EoT are on cd. Use Judgment as soon as it is available because it shortens timer on SotR.

Get the Bulwark artifact trait (bottom left gold trait) asap. It will become your #1 best friend.

Your best overall secondary stat is haste, but armor and stam are also very important, so most times you will go with item level. Grab haste gear when you can get it.

And finally, if you get that legendary cc ring that everyone complains about? Celebrate it's your bis!

Welcome to the team & happy tanking!

[Deleted]

And finally, if you get that legendary cc ring that everyone complains about? Celebrate it's your bis!

Alright can you stop the feelycrafting about Sephuz already?

It's nowhere near BiS for the following reasons

1. Stats are bad
2. Proc is average at best. At best 5% haste, wont proc during boss fights. The other half is just some QoL for the movement speed, which is kinda bleh as most of the time you spend during any kind of PvE is not running as far and fast as possible
3. It locks up a legendary slot
4. Its the shittiest of the 3 rings you have as a paladin

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Alright can you stop the feelycrafting about Sephuz already?

It's nowhere near BiS for the following reasons

1. Stats are bad
2. Proc is average at best. At best 5% haste, wont proc during boss fights. The other half is just some QoL for the movement speed, which is kinda bleh as most of the time you spend during any kind of PvE is not running as far and fast as possible
3. It locks up a legendary slot
4. Its the shittiest of the 3 rings you have as a paladin

Spoken like someone who doesn't M+ much.

It is BiS for the following reasons:

1. Haste is our best stat, and Sephuz gives us loads of it every 30 seconds.
2. Proc is amazing - like having drums for 10 seconds out of every 30.
3. Boss fights are not the limiting factor in most M+ runs. It's all about the trash. That said, many boss fights include adds and I have been able to proc Sephuz during many many M+ boss fights.
4. Movement speed is critical when you are kiting necrotic bolstered raging fortified.
5. I have four legendaries atm, and Sephuz is my most valuable one for tanking M+ (pally legs are close second).
6. It's not our best legendary for raiding, but is for M+

[Evilmoo]

Righteous protector is shit get Last Defender instead.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Righteous protector is shit get Last Defender instead.

Depends on what you're tanking. Righteous Protector for single opponents. Last Defender for multiple. In practice that means I typically spec RP for raids and LD for M+.

[Evilmoo]

Depends on what you're tanking. Righteous Protector for single opponents. Last Defender for multiple. In practice that means I typically spec RP for raids and LD for M+.

Yeh, he just started so i assumed he is into HC and Ms.

[Deleted]

Depends on what you're tanking. Righteous Protector for single opponents. Last Defender for multiple. In practice that means I typically spec RP for raids and LD for M+.

I suggest you run seraphim over LD for m+. The dmg reduction in my opinion isnt that noticable since ur only pulling 5-10 mobs at a time most of the time.

I never once ran LD yet in legion heh

[Deleted]

Are you still holding aggro on the mobs during bubble with Final Stand?

[Evilmoo]

I suggest you run seraphim over LD for m+. The dmg reduction in my opinion isnt that noticable since ur only pulling 5-10 mobs at a time most of the time.

I never once ran LD yet in legion heh

10 mobs is around 20% reduction, especially in fortified where your seraphim damage does not really add much so...
just carry tomes around and switch according to the M+ level, affixes and team comb


"Are you still holding aggro on the mobs during bubble with Final Stand?"

yes

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I suggest you run seraphim over LD for m+. The dmg reduction in my opinion isnt that noticable since ur only pulling 5-10 mobs at a time most of the time.

I never once ran LD yet in legion heh

Seraphim is an interesting choice, and if I only wanted to pad my personal meters I would probably try it more. But what is the tank's job really?

No, I don't mean tanks shouldn't worry about dps; I am not of that school. What I mean goes deeper than that. Tank's job is to control the fight, to facilitate and assist top performance by rest of his team. Take any size pull I can survive with Seraphim, and I can go bigger with Last Defender. Last Defender scales with size of pull. I already burst over 1 million with Last Defender on trash pulls, and compete with my DPS for total damage at the end of the instance. But we should be judged by how well we set our teams up for success, not our personal numbers. I can hold more mobs with Last Defender AND because LD Is entirely passive, I can focus more on other factors - having SotR up for big hits, interrupting and stunning, etc.

All that said, I am humble enough to realize there are other prot pallies better than I am. LD works for me right now, but I hear ya that Seraphim is working for you. For all I know you're just better than I am. And who knows? Maybe I'll even change my mind before this is all over.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you still holding aggro on the mobs during bubble with Final Stand?

I use Final Stand for necrotic. Having one more way to drop stacks becomes more valuable than the extra heals form HotP. Especially with Teeming this week, those stacks will add up fast.

Blessing of Spellwarding, Final Stand, Consecrated Ground, and I like Holy Shield for Necrotic as well. Not how I spec most weeks, but probably how I'll roll this week in M+.

[VeteranoNoob]

Seraphim is an interesting choice, and if I only wanted to pad my personal meters I would probably try it more. But what is the tank's job really?

No, I don't mean tanks shouldn't worry about dps; I am not of that school. What I mean goes deeper than that. Tank's job is to control the fight, to facilitate and assist top performance by rest of his team. Take any size pull I can survive with Seraphim, and I can go bigger with Last Defender. Last Defender scales with size of pull. I already burst over 1 million with Last Defender on trash pulls, and compete with my DPS for total damage at the end of the instance. But we should be judged by how well we set our teams up for success, not our personal numbers. I can hold more mobs with Last Defender AND because LD Is entirely passive, I can focus more on other factors - having SotR up for big hits, interrupting and stunning, etc.

All that said, I am humble enough to realize there are other prot pallies better than I am. LD works for me right now, but I hear ya that Seraphim is working for you. For all I know you're just better than I am. And who knows? Maybe I'll even change my mind before this is all over.

- - - Updated - - -



I use Final Stand for necrotic. Having one more way to drop stacks becomes more valuable than the extra heals form HotP. Especially with Teeming this week, those stacks will add up fast.

Blessing of Spellwarding, Final Stand, Consecrated Ground, and I like Holy Shield for Necrotic as well. Not how I spec most weeks, but probably how I'll roll this week in M+.

Thanks for your replies man... I read them all and all makes sense

I am new to Prot pala, have been playing for about 1 month, too bad I have got 2 legendaries (not complaining about the numbers) and they are the boot and the bracer... both seems really meh for tanking, but at least I have got some ilvl burst :P

Did you check the new benchmark feat at AskMr? Everyone says that mastery is crap, but doing simulations there with this benchmark feat, it tells me to go vers/mastery when comes to high Mythic+ content.

Do you aggree with that or just go always: ilvl > haste >> versa > crit > mastery?

Right now I got DMC 855 and Xavius trinket 870 and a Coagulated blood 850. Still discord says Xavius is top 2 and this coagulated is crap, but AskMR tells me Coagulated is nice...

Ohhhhhh so many doubts

Btw, I am doing M+ 90% of the time, so I dont care much about the raid atm...

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Thanks for your replies man... I read them all and all makes sense

I am new to Prot pala, have been playing for about 1 month, too bad I have got 2 legendaries (not complaining about the numbers) and they are the boot and the bracer... both seems really meh for tanking, but at least I have got some ilvl burst :P

Did you check the new benchmark feat at AskMr? Everyone says that mastery is crap, but doing simulations there with this benchmark feat, it tells me to go vers/mastery when comes to high Mythic+ content.

Do you aggree with that or just go always: ilvl > haste >> versa > crit > mastery?

Right now I got DMC 855 and Xavius trinket 870 and a Coagulated blood 850. Still discord says Xavius is top 2 and this coagulated is crap, but AskMR tells me Coagulated is nice...

Ohhhhhh so many doubts

Btw, I am doing M+ 90% of the time, so I dont care much about the raid atm...

I'm not convinced Mr. Robot is very good at ranking tank trinkets. At one point they said right on the website to pick your own trinkets. I collect them, because different ones are better for different fights.

I am not where I can look up the coagulated right now, but Xavius is very good single target. It's debuff can only affect one target at a time, so it's good for bosses but not so much for trash pulls. DMC is very good for its item level. Armor is just very good for tanking, since most damage is physical and armor is passive/always on.

I like haste because it boosts both our offense and defense. It lets us use our abilities more often. That said, all secondary stats are being downplayed in 7.1.5, making it more worthwhile to go with the higher item level.

[HumbleDuck]

One may suggest protein bars.

[VeteranoNoob]

I'm not convinced Mr. Robot is very good at ranking tank trinkets. At one point they said right on the website to pick your own trinkets. I collect them, because different ones are better for different fights.

I am not where I can look up the coagulated right now, but Xavius is very good single target. It's debuff can only affect one target at a time, so it's good for bosses but not so much for trash pulls. DMC is very good for its item level. Armor is just very good for tanking, since most damage is physical and armor is passive/always on.

I like haste because it boosts both our offense and defense. It lets us use our abilities more often. That said, all secondary stats are being downplayed in 7.1.5, making it more worthwhile to go with the higher item level.

Shit! I just got Xavius 2 days ago I did not had a chance to even check that debuff thing, I thought it was applied to all enemies attacking you! Thanks for that info. So for sure, Coagulated is better for M+ cause you can absord around 1mi damage (if I am not wrong) and its cooldown is around 20s, of course, if you have enough charges.

Do you have any idea about the Chrono Shard + Neck combo? They give an extra 1000 haste on proc. So for M+ I will not use Xavius trinket... could be Coagulated or Chrono shard.

I gonna try the AskMR mastery build later, lets see how it goes.

Hey, thanks for your reply!!!!

[Deleted]

Thanks for your replies man... I read them all and all makes sense

too bad I have got 2 legendaries (not complaining about the numbers) and they are the boot and the bracer...

To be honest i am way more relaxed on this topic than my DPS friends who go mental about "omg its not one of the 3 good ones, shard it!"
I think the whole legendary system is more balanced from a tanks perspective and the utility items have an actual use in certain moments.
Bracers? 2x imune to eye beam at Il'gynoth and 2x imune to spear at Odyn.
And the boots are kinda undervalued in my oppinion. Running speed is very welcome as a paladin/dk and the high haste on them is great.

I think when you have most or even all of them you dont give a rats ass about another "more dps/mitigation" sidegrade and the special ones
that work wonders in specific moments begin to shine.