Holy in 7.1.5

[KaPe]

You are correct on the wording. We now have the only dumb AoE heal in the game, although it isn't the end of the world. It's noticeably better (With Divinity and Power of the Naaru) in 5 mans, and noticeably worse in raids. But how much were you really using it in raids?

You do realize of course that you're proving his point, right? If it was barely used in raids and now it's even worse than before... sure it's not "end of the world", but still a pretty terrible design decision. Making more spells viable should be the goal, not the opposite.

[Nephthysis]

You do realize of course that you're proving his point, right? If it was barely used in raids and now it's even worse than before... sure it's not "end of the world", but still a pretty terrible design decision. Making more spells viable should be the goal, not the opposite.

I never meant to imply that it isn't bad. It's a bad spell and a baffling decision on Blizzard's part. Hence pointing out that it's the ONLY dumb AoE of any of it's cousins. It just doesn't change much. It probably wasn't a big part of your healing in raids before and it sure won't be now.

It is a nice buff in 5 mans for say Eye and CoS where we needed some help though. So there's a bit of a silver lining.

I completely agree that it should have been the design goal to improve its usefulness all around, and not just as a "5 man dungeon" heal. It's a freaking core spell of the holy priest since the beginning of WoW.

[Mazzeric]

Sounds super weird if shamans get to keep chain heal -_-

Chain Heal is a core shaman spell (that also got nerfed in 7.1.5)... PoH is cast like 2 times in a fight. This comparison is absurd.

Just only cast PoH when you know that clump of people is low, there's not much to it.

[Deleted]

Well, it still heals injured allies (at least according to PTR, regardless of wording in the tooltip). So now you should never use it if there's ticking damage (i.e. many people at >95%), but it's pretty good if you have 4 or more people at <70% while the rest are full or everyone is taking heavy damage (and you don't have hymn).

[Nephthysis]

Well, it still heals injured allies (at least according to PTR, regardless of wording in the tooltip). So now you should never use it if there's ticking damage (i.e. many people at >95%), but it's pretty good if you have 4 or more people at <70% while the rest are full or everyone is taking heavy damage (and you don't have hymn).

The PTR itself told you this? I'm curious as to your source, because I can assure you that is 100% not the case, unless there is a bug involved.

My own personal experience on PTR and *every single WCL* of Holy Priests from the PTR shows multiple instances of PoH hitting for 0, which shouldn't ever happen with a 40 yard radius spell, unless there were only 4 people injured.

00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Derpstarderp +85923 (O: 21358)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Nymzeemonk +0 (O: 107280)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Suprea +*122392* (O: 92169)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Shadowelf +85431 (O: 21850)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Jabbaseek +107281
00:02:00.324 Tiggii's Spirit Fragment absorbs 98351 damage of D'zorykx the Trapper's Torn Soul on Suprea
00:02:00.516 Tiggii Renew Reniita Tick +27320
00:02:00.516 Tiggii Renew Tiggii Tick +*68299*

Random excerpt from the very first WCL I pullled up looking for Holy Priests. PoH chose to hit Nym, even though he was at full health. Reniita and Tigii are both obviously injured, because renew ticks land a fraction of a second later. Those are the 3 healers in this encounter and the chances that they're > 40 yards apart are rather slim.

[Clebane]

The PTR itself told you this? I'm curious as to your source, because I can assure you that is 100% not the case, unless there is a bug involved.

My own personal experience on PTR and *every single WCL* of Holy Priests from the PTR shows multiple instances of PoH hitting for 0, which shouldn't ever happen with a 40 yard radius spell, unless there were only 4 people injured.

00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Derpstarderp +85923 (O: 21358)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Nymzeemonk +0 (O: 107280)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Suprea +*122392* (O: 92169)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Shadowelf +85431 (O: 21850)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Jabbaseek +107281
00:02:00.324 Tiggii's Spirit Fragment absorbs 98351 damage of D'zorykx the Trapper's Torn Soul on Suprea
00:02:00.516 Tiggii Renew Reniita Tick +27320
00:02:00.516 Tiggii Renew Tiggii Tick +*68299*

Random excerpt from the very first WCL I pullled up looking for Holy Priests. PoH chose to hit Nym, even though he was at full health. Reniita and Tigii are both obviously injured, because renew ticks land a fraction of a second later. Those are the 3 healers in this encounter and the chances that they're > 40 yards apart are rather slim.

I'm getting this as well. 60 to 70% overhealing on PoH.

It's gone from being a bad spell to a terrible one.

[Deleted]

The PTR itself told you this? I'm curious as to your source, because I can assure you that is 100% not the case, unless there is a bug involved.

My own personal experience on PTR and *every single WCL* of Holy Priests from the PTR shows multiple instances of PoH hitting for 0, which shouldn't ever happen with a 40 yard radius spell, unless there were only 4 people injured.

00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Derpstarderp +85923 (O: 21358)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Nymzeemonk +0 (O: 107280)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Suprea +*122392* (O: 92169)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Shadowelf +85431 (O: 21850)
00:02:00.256 Tiggii Prayer of Healing Jabbaseek +107281
00:02:00.324 Tiggii's Spirit Fragment absorbs 98351 damage of D'zorykx the Trapper's Torn Soul on Suprea
00:02:00.516 Tiggii Renew Reniita Tick +27320
00:02:00.516 Tiggii Renew Tiggii Tick +*68299*

Random excerpt from the very first WCL I pullled up looking for Holy Priests. PoH chose to hit Nym, even though he was at full health. Reniita and Tigii are both obviously injured, because renew ticks land a fraction of a second later. Those are the 3 healers in this encounter and the chances that they're > 40 yards apart are rather slim.

I agree, it might be the case now, I only tested back a few weeks (or was it a month? first time they changed the wording). If so, it really becomes only usable when you do not have hymn available, and even then, maybe only on melee. Kind of a bummer.

[Mazzeric]

The funny thing is that they tried to get away from having a party restriction on the spell, and now you want to be a nazi again about groups.

The best usage seems to be "put all melee and tanks in groups 1 and 2 and if you happen to notice all of them dip then its safe to PoH"

[Nephthysis]

The funny thing is that they tried to get away from having a party restriction on the spell, and now you want to be a nazi again about groups.

The best usage seems to be "put all melee and tanks in groups 1 and 2 and if you happen to notice all of them dip then its safe to PoH"

I mean it's usable, when raid-wide chunks of damage go out (ie. Ursoc roar or Krosus fireball). It's just that it was usable in those situations before, but now it is demonstrably *worse* on random secondary target nukers like Il'gynoth lasers or "4 random people got tagged by Elisande's balls".

[Deleted]

Chain Heal is a core shaman spell (that also got nerfed in 7.1.5)... PoH is cast like 2 times in a fight. This comparison is absurd.

Just only cast PoH when you know that clump of people is low, there's not much to it.

That's exactly the problem, lol. We should be able to use PoH the way shamans use Chain heal, essentially. Now we can hardly cast or use it whatsoever because it's just that bad.

[Grimbolt]

PoH is poop.

Get more haste to cast more Mendings and spec Piety, light of naaru and Benediction to cast more sanctify. Then fill with flash heal. Thats how we aoe heal now.

[Mazzeric]

That's exactly the problem, lol. We should be able to use PoH the way shamans use Chain heal, essentially. Now we can hardly cast or use it whatsoever because it's just that bad.

Except that the Shaman kit is designed around Chain Heal and it's their go-to heal for raid damage pretty much all of the time. Healing Rain is pretty niche and doesn't get used at all on any non-stacked fight. In a world where Chain Heal didn't smart heal, Shamans would be in the dumpster. It's just the design and balance for the spell.

PoH is a complementary spell for Holy Priest (at least in Legion)... You have Sanctify, Piety-PoM, Benediction, PoH, and the resulting Echo ticking on the whole raid.

You have to consider the whole kit before just saying that your toys should behave like Shaman toys because reasons.

[Deleted]

Except that the Shaman kit is designed around Chain Heal and it's their go-to heal for raid damage pretty much all of the time. Healing Rain is pretty niche and doesn't get used at all on any non-stacked fight. In a world where Chain Heal didn't smart heal, Shamans would be in the dumpster. It's just the design and balance for the spell.

PoH is a complementary spell for Holy Priest (at least in Legion)... You have Sanctify, Piety-PoM, Benediction, PoH, and the resulting Echo ticking on the whole raid.

You have to consider the whole kit before just saying that your toys should behave like Shaman toys because reasons.

Then again, except for our holy words, they have very similar spells. If you account for Holy words being our special thing while spirit link totem is theirs, their spells are very similar. Healing stream is essentially a PoM, healing surge is a flash heal, healing wave a heal, chain heal a prayer of healing, riptide a renew. We're more similar than one may think.

I don't really care for PoH to be a smart heal, but at least make it visible to us who we're going to heal in the frames. It's literally impossible to see who the heal is going to it, so at least bring back the group heal of PoH so that we can manually decide who to heal. It's either that or a smart heal for it to work.

[Negato]

I would love for PoH to be party based again. Was really fun interaction imo and unique way to heal

[KaPe]

I would love for PoH to be party based again. Was really fun interaction imo and unique way to heal

And it stopped being fun when you had to divide raid into groups which weren't divisible by 5. Or the damage was randomly spread across several different groups.

It was inferior design, which was only made up by the spell being fairly powerful. Right now, it's the same strength as every other AOE heal - except Sanctify - with the added bonus of being dumber.

[Negato]

And it stopped being fun when you had to divide raid into groups which weren't divisible by 5. Or the damage was randomly spread across several different groups.

It was inferior design, which was only made up by the spell being fairly powerful. Right now, it's the same strength as every other AOE heal - except Sanctify - with the added bonus of being dumber.

Splitting the raid groups in as an efficient manner as possible to maximize PoH was part of the fun aspect for me. It required a bit of planning outside just your typical healing which is what I liked. Also in Mythic the group is always divisible by 5, but yes in heroic you occasionally had the odd man out.

[Mazzeric]

The move away from party-based PoH is an interesting design decision because from a quality of life perspective it was certainly superior to random overheal on up to 4 targets (current iteration), but then you have the issue of just... WoW in 2017 where not all groups have 5 people potentially, and there are way fewer encounters being designed that cater to the spell (this could just be my anecdotal observation but it really feels that way).

The PoH party restriction really should have gone away when they made the move away from all party-restricted mechanics (old vampiric touch, mana tide, etc). I think the spell definitely suffers from them not having had as much time to iterate on it because they were so keen on keeping that mechanic in the first place. But then we also remember how long it took for them to ditch lightwell.

I don't think it would be unreasonable if they just made the spell heal "injured" targets (smart) as opposed to "most injured" (smarter)

[davesignal]

Or they could have just taken 7.1 Prayer of Healing and increased the AOE to 30'.