Sheriff offers inmates to build trump border wall

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

The other point is that being poor is more likely to force you into criminal activity.... but that is another story.

Right, I am poor so I am forced to rape people. I am poor so I am forced to molest children. I am poor so I am forced to murder someone.

Explain to me the reason those four "poor" people were forced to torture and kidnap and perpetrate a hate crime on a disabled special needs kid?

I don't know if you are saying these things to rile up the forum and derail this thread with so much bogus and bullshit statements, but if you are honestly being serious with your statements, than it is really disturbing.

[schwarzkopf]

I'm just saying stick to the point and do go off on rabbit trails.

I'm 100% on point.
1. Prisoners being used as slaves
2. Prisoners are mostly poor people.
3. Poor people don't make the rules that let them be slaves.

This is a linear discussion, you may miss the thread of thought and discussion - but it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Sort of like the wealth inequality in US legal system - it is there in reality, even if you deny it.

[schwarzkopf]

Right, I am poor so I am forced to rape people.

That is sad indeed, but I'm not sure what on earth it has to do with what I said. Care to explain ?

[Jinpachi]

Because for a lot of people it's either commit crimes or lose everything you have, guaranteed. At least committing crimes gives you a chance to get away with it.

Exactly. You roll the dice, you take what comes with it.

[schwarzkopf]

Exactly. You roll the dice, you take what comes with it.

Which would be acceptable if rolling the dice was a choice.

[Merie]

I think the problem with this is that when imprisoned people can be made to do slave labor for little or no compensation it is basically giving the state incentive to lock people up. This is getting out of hand as it is with privatized institutions mandating a quota for prison pop. It is no wonder we have the highest prison population in the world.

[Masark]

It has a lot to do with how people in a bad situation may quickly find themselves in an even worse situation with a pretty understandable incentive to disregard the law for financial gain.

Or they just get railroaded by police and judges.

Example.

Further examples.

[Jinpachi]

Bob and Tracy are best friends. Bob is rich, Tracy is poor. Bob and Tracy decide to rob a convenience store. They are unsuccessful, and get caught. Bob hires Saul Goodman and gets off with 6 months jail and 4 years probation. Tracy gets a public defender and gets 5 years. Is Tracy any less guilty because he couldn't afford a good lawyer?

[schwarzkopf]

How does that corresponds with the US having the most inmates in the world?

Oddly enough it correlates well.

The US has a strong ethic towards individual over society, this means that the wellbeing of society is forgotten in the push for personal accountability.

In addition, money is deemed to be an acceptable substitute for incarceration - and thus the cycle continues.

[Zmaniac17]

Exactly. You roll the dice, you take what comes with it.

And you just wanna screw people over even harder for making mistakes and give prisons incentive to keep even more people locked up longer. You do not sound like someone who has ever had to learn the hard way.

[Jinpachi]

How does that corresponds with the US having the most inmates in the world?

It's dangerous to make prisons profitable.
Not just because of the danger to the treatment and quality of the prisons, but also the rate at which people are sent to it.

Well a bullshit war on drugs created a lot of laws that created criminals out of normally law abiding citizens. Same shit that prohibition did back in the 20's. Changing the laws would be a good place to start prison reform. The point of this thread is to debate on whether it's a good idea to use prisoners for labor. Personally i have nothing against it.

[schwarzkopf]

Or they just get railroaded by police and judges.

I think focusing on systemic issues is far more useful than individual cases of abuse.

The systemic issues in the US are that the entire legal process is focused on money from the trial, all the way to the imprisonment.

That gives incentives in entirely the wrong direction.

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The point of this thread is to debate on whether it's a good idea to use prisoners for labor. Personally i have nothing against it.

Indeed, giving prisoners the choice to work in exchange for some benefit is an awesome idea, and could form part of an excellent rehabilitation process.

[Jinpachi]

And you just wanna screw people over even harder for making mistakes and give prisons incentive to keep even more people locked up longer. You do not sound like someone who has ever had to learn the hard way.

I have 2 brothers in prison for various reasons. One of them has been in and out all his life, basically institutionalized. I know all too well how the criminal justice system likes to fuck people. You have two options. 1. Change the laws. 2. Don't break the laws. Anything else is wasting breath.

[Jinpachi]

I think focusing on systemic issues is far more useful than individual cases of abuse.

The systemic issues in the US are that the entire legal process is focused on money from the trial, all the way to the imprisonment.

That gives incentives in entirely the wrong direction.

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Indeed, giving prisoners the choice to work in exchange for some benefit is an awesome idea, and could form part of an excellent rehabilitation process.

I agree totally with that.

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I don't know how you expect this to help your case, as you basically just conceded the argument. Bob isn't any less guilty than Tracy, but due to the circumstances of his life, he gets off easier.

I never was arguing against it, really. Ive been trying to argue the merits of using prisoners for labor.

[Rasulis]

I don't think anyone believes these prisoners are going to work back hoes, or heavy construction equipment, but there are certainly opportunities of labor or learning a job skill these prisoners could learn.

Not sure why everyone is so against prisoners learning a job skill.

Secondly, I doubt these jobs would be open to harden and dangerous criminals. Prisoners actually do work outside the prisons, those that have shown they can be "trusted".

This happens all the time.

They wouldn't be chained up together wearing black and white striped pajama's singing blues songs, under the blistering heat while guards with huge mustaches and sunglasses are on horse back carrying 12-gauge shotguns.

Nothing wrong with that. Except, based on my personal experience, a heavy civil construction site is a bad place to learn a trade. It is a dangerous place for novice. All of the workers are busy with their task. They really don't have time, nor the inclination, to teach.

CA has apprentice requirements for public work construction. To satisfy the requirements, the Contractor would send a request for apprentice to the local union hall. Most of the times nobody would show up. If somebody do show up, they usually ended up being assigned busy work that keep them out of the way.

If people want convicts to learn a trade, they are better off putting them on smaller projects.

[Steve French]

Mmm slave labor in service of political theater.

AMERICA

Right? How dare they try and make those poor felons do some manual labor instead of taxpayers just paying for them to sit around all day doing nothing. A terrible injustice obviously, thankfully we have people like you worrying about the real issues.

[Halicia]

The point of this thread is to debate on whether it's a good idea to use prisoners for labor. Personally i have nothing against it.

For a country who already has a disproportionate amount of its citizens behind bars both for-profit prisons, and otherwise... adding the extra incentive of cheap/free labor for convicting people that might have otherwise been free & productive members of society seems to add an extra incentive to put more people behind bars.

I'm not necessarily against offering employment opportunities and training for people behind bars... but using them as political chips seems sketchy...

Can't convince the public to mobilize the military ? Let's send out the prison-slave force! Those nasty jaywalkers had it coming anyways, and if we win the war the price of gas will drop a penny... a shame only 5% of the population is free to enjoy that cheap gas.

[Jinpachi]

Right? How dare they try and make those poor felons do some manual labor instead of taxpayers just paying for them to sit around all day doing nothing. A terrible injustice obviously, thankfully we have people like you worrying about the real issues.

This guy fuckin' gets it lol.

[Masark]

I think focusing on systemic issues is far more useful than individual cases of abuse.

When you have entire towns financing themselves via theft, I'd say that's pretty systemic.

[schwarzkopf]

When you have entire towns financing themselves via theft, I'd say that's pretty systemic.

When you have an entire country that systemically funnels the poor into prisons that make a profit based primarily on the number of prisoners - that's a far bigger problem.

Local towns can be brought into order by the state, or federal governments - if the state and federal governments aren't themselves at the mercy of a broken system.