What made classic wow better than current?

[Akka]

jesus christ your last 10 posts are nothing but hyperbole and lie lmao, I'll pass

Keep misrepresenting the past and defending thieves though!

Translation : "I couldn't find a single lie so I just look like a fucktard after making my claim and need a childish way out".

[Effenz]

Translation : "I couldn't find a single lie so I just look like a fucktard after making my claim".

No, more like "you're too fucking retarded and the bullshit you spew is too painful to look at"

[Akka]

Yeah yeah, sure man

[supermage]

Classic wow was new and the only MMO of its kind out there. That is what made it better than today's version. Now there are tons of games with better graphics in the market. So lots of options to fulfill that craving for something new. Wow today is old.

[Effenz]

Yeah yeah, sure man

I'm not alone in thinking that you're a complete retard, either.

[Tome]

What is immersion and RPG? Is it only when a cinematic plays in front of you or when an NPC speaks with voice acting?

Saying inventory management and weapon skill training is not an RPG element could rather well play a game with no investment, boxes, cubes and white square rooms for models and a single instant reward button.

Just because time was a factor to keep you around for longer and give you purpose outside of the norm, it doesn't mean it wasn't an RPG element, just because it wasn't instant gratification.

Weapon skills obviously meant your character had no skill using that weapon, and needed training to learn how to swing it in a proper and skillful way. It might have become useless later, but it wasn't from the start. It was just as important for raiding as herbalism was for alchemy to create potions and elixirs.

It gave you something else to do, something to aim for, no matter how much you had to swing it at enemies. It was needed.

Newsflash everybody. MMO's are created to keep you in the game for longer.

[Heathy]

What is immersion and RPG? Is it only when a cinematic plays in front of you or when an NPC speaks with voice acting?

Saying inventory management and weapon skill training is not an RPG element could rather well play a game with no investment, boxes, cubes and white square rooms for models and a single instant reward button.

Just because time was a factor to keep you around for longer and give you purpose outside of the norm, it doesn't mean it wasn't an RPG element, just because it wasn't instant gratification.

Weapon skills obviously meant your character had no skill using that weapon, and needed training to learn how to swing it in a proper and skillful way. It might have become useless later, but it wasn't from the start. It was just as important for raiding as herbalism was for alchemy to create potions and elixirs.

It gave you something else to do, something to aim for, no matter how much you had to swing it at enemies. It was needed.

Newsflash everybody. MMO's are created to keep you in the game for longer.

it just wasn't fun though, it was a chore even back then, you got a new weapon and then said 'good grief now i have to go auto attack some crappy mob for 15 mins until i can hit most of the time' I mean i bet there were ppl who didn't even bother to do that and would join raids or dungeons with 1 weapon skill and by the end of the dungeon they might be close to 300 doing terrible dps because they can't hit anything.

immersion is cool and something you want in a game like wow, but I don't need minor time sinks to create immersion it was the balancing around weapon skills that made no sense either, melee classes sometimes ended up needing to train a variety of weapon skills, casters only needed to train up wands, the weapon skills were 95% pointless for a caster. you don't melee so you don't need staffs at 300, i never trained staffs or maces to 300 on my priest because i didn't need to it made no difference at all to my ability to use a staff, if my weapon skill was lvl 1 or lvl 300.

where is my immersion? so i'm training up staffs on my priest and getting zero benefit from doing so. great immersion, i r8 8/8.

probably would have made more sense if they added weapon skill requirements to weapons, but that never happened. I ended up being a benediction wielding priest with staves at level 1. there could have been a lot more depth in the weapon skill system but it really only mattered for melee and hunters. it was a broken system that had no effect on 50% of the classes.

druids mages warlocks shamans priests, none of these classes really NEEDED to train weapon skills, even holy palas to a lesser extent didn't need weapon skills, i'm almost certain judgement was spell hit related not weapon skill related.

only warriors rogues and hunters really got much use out of the weapon skill system, warriors and hunters probably were the main classes, warriors were always going through different weapons, from 2h axes to 2h swords to polearms, and hunters needing on every fucking weapon in the game for some retarded reason, playing a hunter was probably like playing weapon skill training online. rogues got a lot of use out of the weapon system aswell I think i trained sword and maces on my rogue the mace stun spec was kinda funny and op.

in the end it was good that they got rid of weapon skills, there was no real point to it existing in the form that it did, if they weren't willing to improve it somehow make it actually mean something for every class. then yes there was no real point in it existing. iirc even though they did remove the weapon skill system they replaced it with hit and expertise so even though the levelling up individual weapons was gone the mechanics behind hit/parry and dodge were still there. in fact it was expertise that included parry and dodge into your chance to hit or at least the inclusion of that stat allowed more control over your ability to reduce a targets dodge and parry to 0%, because i don't think weapon skills effected a mobs chance to dodge and parry which iirc was fixed at 5% just like their chance to crit, 300 weapon skill was basically the first iteration of hit capping. nothing more.

[AeneasBK]

You take a lot of words to present a selective memory as fact.

Don't get me wrong we've all been guilty of it

[Heathy]

who me? are you going to tell me that weapon skills meant more than what i'm remembering?

that they had some lasting depth?

please point out which parts are 'selective' or was that just a buzzword to beef up that sentence?

getting tired of ppl saying 'well your wrong' and then not saying any fucking thing else about why or how.

at least when hit and expertise came to gear there was more choice over how you got your caps. there was more actual game play involved in getting caps.

you can't honestly tell me that weapon skills were useful for everyone, because they just weren't. there is nothing selective about that.
when you got a weapon skill to 300 that was it, you didn't interact with that game play aspect ever again, it was 'ok my x weapon is 300' and then that was something that you either never really cared about improved on, looked at, needing to do anything at all with, it was a progress bar that once filled you never looked back at.

[AeneasBK]

To be fair it was mostly referring to the post a page back or so; to then spend so many paragraphs on weapon skill because you deem it one of the few things that made the game "more RPG" seemed remarkable.

I could argue that as I played paladin I didn't need poisons so "where is my immersion?"; but I'm sure you agree that would be equally pointless.

Anyway, I didn't mean much by it either ways, sorry it was posted so aloofly.

I would say the biggest "more RPG" (whatever that means to anyone) element that was lacking when I stopped playing retail ~(which was admittedly during WoD but no signs there's been a U-turn on this one) is that classes felt more unique. Yes its a pain in the arse when you're halfway through your dungeon and you realise you don't have a mage or druid so that 10 minute curse is here to stay. Or any of the other differences. But it at least makes things a bit more varied

But you didn't mention it so I guess it isn't a "RPGness" element that interests you. You also completely disregard levelling as a feature (which is where learning weapon skills comes more into play anyway); in your "there were only 4 or 5 endgame zones". It is, afterall, pretty subjective

[Heathy]

I also apologize for snapping, I get a lot of the reason for the vanilla love, but some of the defence over the really minor game play aspects, it seems like ppl are putting more value onto things that were removed and not really remembering WHY they were removed in the first place.

[voidillusion]

I also apologize for snapping, I get a lot of the reason for the vanilla love, but some of the defence over the really minor game play aspects, it seems like ppl are putting more value onto things that were removed and not really remembering WHY they were removed in the first place.

And can you say why they were removed? You may say such insignificant feature was a hassle, i say it was logic inside a RPG game where you level your char on more than one dimension. But to say why it was removed will most likely be speculation. For example i speculate that it was removed for the same reason some other changes where made, to streamline the game while making it easier to develop.

[AeneasBK]

I also apologize for snapping, I get a lot of the reason for the vanilla love, but some of the defence over the really minor game play aspects, it seems like ppl are putting more value onto things that were removed and not really remembering WHY they were removed in the first place.

Its cool I was posting like an ass too The thread has been so much stupid bickering it brought the tone down

The QoL change, if we can call them that, that I miss most on my hacked server (there you go Effenz /pat), is sending 12 items via mail instead of 1 Removing the "1 item limit" was a good change, but one I'll suffer without I guess

[Heathy]

And can you say why they were removed? You may say such insignificant feature was a hassle, i say it was logic inside a RPG game where you level your char on more than one dimension. But to say why it was removed will most likely be speculation. For example i speculate that it was removed for the same reason some other changes where made, to streamline the game while making it easier to develop.

I honestly think it was removed just due to the reasons i've mentioned above, it was only melees and hunters that really benefited from levelling up multiple weapons and it did nothing at all whatsoever for casters. levelling up caster weapons was a gimmick, I mean we needed to level wands so we could hit the boss and get mana from BoW, but even so, i didn't level up my wand skill on my priest before raiding, i levelled up my wand skill IN molten core and ZG, not outside in the world like other classes did with their main weapons.

there just wasn't any game play in weapon skills, did any one take it seriously? i remember afk levelling weapon skills on a few different occasions with alts. afk weapon levelling, not fully immersed weapon levelling.

[Zafire]

For me that's no reason why vanilla should be better,running 2 hours for a profession to get 10 skillpoints ? No thanks ain't got time for this shit
Changing characters took much time ? Oh I guess u try out Legion I still can't keep up with my twinks.
All the raids ?
Y I had to do en and tov before I could go nh and right on pretty much every difficulty

That's your call, some people like feeling that the world they're playing in feels like a world.

Just standing in one spot and warping to a dungeon on the other side of the map, and returning to where you left off when you're done, makes it feel more like an arcade or action game and less like a role playing game. Some people don't care about being immersed, but a lot of people do.

For example, I always try to make my characters in RPG's look like me. I always play a human or human variant (like Breton in Elder Scrolls). I always make choices in-game based on my own morals (RE: My morals are more selfish and less "good", although I do pick good options sometimes). It's because I want to feel like I'm in that world as much as possible. A lot of people don't get it, but a lot of people do the same thing.

I do enjoy games more that have features like older WoW, even if they are inconvenient. Before people start preaching about Nostalgia, I can promise you that absolutely is not the case. I play only Survival on Fallout 4 (No fast travel, you and enemies deal more damage, have to eat/drink/sleep to stay alive) because it's immersive, not because it's convenient. I don't care if it takes me a long time to get things done, what matters is my enjoyment.

[voidillusion]

I honestly think it was removed just due to the reasons i've mentioned above, it was only melees and hunters that really benefited from levelling up multiple weapons and it did nothing at all whatsoever for casters. levelling up caster weapons was a gimmick, I mean we needed to level wands so we could hit the boss and get mana from BoW, but even so, i didn't level up my wand skill on my priest before raiding, i levelled up my wand skill IN molten core and ZG, not outside in the world like other classes did with their main weapons.

there just wasn't any game play in weapon skills, did any one take it seriously? i remember afk levelling weapon skills on a few different occasions with alts. afk weapon levelling, not fully immersed weapon levelling.

Not only some ppl took it seriously, as seriously as a hunter who wants to be maxed on all ranged weapons, or a rogue/warrior in all melee weapons, as seriously as this can be taken within the prespective that it's just a game. But most important i remember ppl who took it as fun, like for example fist fighting, remember you also had unarmed skill?

[Heathy]

Not only some ppl took it seriously, as seriously as a hunter who wants to be maxed on all ranged weapons, or a rogue/warrior in all melee weapons, as seriously as this can be taken within the prespective that it's just a game. But most important i remember ppl who took it as fun, like for example fist fighting, remember you also had unarmed skill?

I can definately understand the desire to level up side aspects to your character although say you got a sword one week and had to level up swords and then next week you got a fist weapon and had to do unarmed and then a month later your back to using daggers as a rogue you effectively wasted your time levelling up weapons you used for a week and may never use again depending on what drops for you.

with things like bis weapons you didn't really need to train every weapon just the weapon type you were going to be using most of the time, for warriors that would have been quel'serrar so 1 h swords. if you were a tank which most warriors probably were, you wouldn't have needed to use any other weapon, if you got that sword that would have been bis most likely until the end of classic and so you had all these other weapon skills that were essentially pointless.

it would have probably made a lot more sense if weapons required a specific skill level to equip, or if weapon skill bled into each other and gave some sort of passive ability, extra swings or more damage, but it just never ended up being expanded on, i think they couldn't figure out a way of making it interesting for casters because we don't melee, personally thats why i think it was removed and changed to hit and expertise on gear. at least then they could make casters go for gear with hit.

[Effenz]

I can definately understand the desire to level up side aspects to your character although say you got a sword one week and had to level up swords and then next week you got a fist weapon and had to do unarmed and then a month later your back to using daggers as a rogue you effectively wasted your time levelling up weapons you used for a week and may never use again depending on what drops for you.

with things like bis weapons you didn't really need to train every weapon just the weapon type you were going to be using most of the time, for warriors that would have been quel'serrar so 1 h swords. if you were a tank which most warriors probably were, you wouldn't have needed to use any other weapon, if you got that sword that would have been bis most likely until the end of classic and so you had all these other weapon skills that were essentially pointless.

it would have probably made a lot more sense if weapons required a specific skill level to equip, or if weapon skill bled into each other and gave some sort of passive ability, extra swings or more damage, but it just never ended up being expanded on, i think they couldn't figure out a way of making it interesting for casters because we don't melee, personally thats why i think it was removed and changed to hit and expertise on gear. at least then they could make casters go for gear with hit.

They did weapon specs for some classes and there were expertise bonuses up until MoP. They changed it because some race/classes were more equal than others (as in, human sword rogue in tbc was leaps and bounds ahead of any other sword rogue)

[zEmini]

Only a few things I miss from classic such as Talent points, old AV and Southshore/HIllsbrad.

[Sansnom]

Weapon skills obviously meant your character had no skill using that weapon, and needed training to learn how to swing it in a proper and skillful way. It might have become useless later, but it wasn't from the start.

I remember that. I also remember seeing people auto attacking in dungeons. When asked why, they needed to raise weapon their skill to use their weapons. Imagine a tank was doing this. Hmm.

I also remember getting a nice weapon, better than the current one, but was also totally useless because my skill meant I could not use it to the full potential.

It gave you something else to do, something to aim for, no matter how much you had to swing it at enemies. It was needed.

On one hand it made sense, on the other, it was annoying.

Newsflash everybody. MMO's are created to keep you in the game for longer.

Yeah. But look at the posts regarding the AP grind.