What made classic wow better than current?

[Deleted]

nothing has been dismantled several times, saying that does not make it true.

your just cycling the same shit over and over again, deliberately being obtuse.

I really don't care if you muppets want to circle jerk in your ps go ahead, no one cares.

opinion based on facts. isn't just an opinion. its a fact based opinion. just because you don't want to hear it, doesn't make it any less true either.

i've had actually experienced vanilla not your illegal ps shit. that has no place here.

this has been pretty boring anyway, the hand waving and deflecting is getting annoying.

No, it is still personal taste. There are many people that prefer D2 over D3, EQ1 over EQ2, FFXI over FFXIV, BF4 over BF1, Rock Music over EDM. Heck i personally still DJ with turntables instead of a digital DJ console even if the console would make my job way easier. Newer and more accessible doesnt automatically make a game better. Just because you like all the QoL improvements and because you think that they made the game better doesn´t mean that this is also true for all the other players. It´s baffeling how few people understand the concept of taste.

[Akka]

nothing has been dismantled several times, saying that does not make it true.

your just cycling the same shit over and over again, deliberately being obtuse.

I really don't care if you muppets want to circle jerk in your ps go ahead, no one cares.

opinion based on facts. isn't just an opinion. its a fact based opinion. just because you don't want to hear it, doesn't make it any less true either.

i've had actually experienced vanilla not your illegal ps shit. that has no place here.

this has been pretty boring anyway, the hand waving and deflecting is getting annoying.

A lot of self-projection here.
At the same time, I'm not sure if it isn't some sort of tongue-in-cheek comedy one, because it's illustrating so perfectly everything I just described, to the most exacting detail, that it feels like it's done on purpose.
Or maybe you're just THAT dense (and I'm awesome at analysis, yay !). That's also definitely a possibility.

And in the latter case, I guess there is nothing to be done - when someone is convinced to be right to the point of ignoring everything that doesn't conform to his opinion, well, by definition no argument is gonna touch him. And there is no point talking to people who are unwilling and unable to listen. So... enjoy being obtuse and convinced of your "objectivity" I guess ?

[Heathy]

dense, i'm dense and your still playing a version of a game thats not been updated in 12 years and are arguing that its a better game still today?

what?

this thread is hilarious. you guys are seriously trying too damn hard.

keep it classy.

when someone is convinced to be right to the point of ignoring everything that doesn't conform to his opinion,

pot meet kettle.

again, lets just agree to disagree, you go enjoy your server thats not getting updated and ill keep enjoying retail and supporting the game going forward. seems like thats the best option.

Just my take on your list.

you can still do those things though right, they are still concepts within the game?

for the last one, you were pretty screwed if you did come in late for vanilla, you were unlikely to progress through to the end. unless ofc you got really lucky and had some guild snap you up and spoon feed you gear so you could join them in their current progress. i'm guessing by the mid point though, most 40 mans had their core team and weren't gearing ppl up any more. well at least i'm almost certain that if you joined the game mid way through 2006 you would have been unlikely to reach t2, let alone aq40 and naxx unless the above happened.

is it better that everyone gets to see the content today in some form? i think it is, everyone is paying to see it, there is no reason why they should arbitrarily be unable to see the content because ppl want to keep the value of their epeen. stupid elitist mentality can stay in vanilla. what can i say though i got my bene during vanilla and completing that quest was probably the best quest ill ever complete. sure i have my own nostalgia, the difference is, i'm happy to keep it a memory, i wouldn't enjoy redoing it again. i think it would actually diminish my accomplishments the first time if i were to run through it again. doing molten core and getting my benediction a second time, wouldn't feel as cool as it was the first time.

during vanilla i raided nearly every time there was a raid, it got to the point that i had too much dkp, i felt guilty a lot of the time because i could win pretty much any loot i wanted and just out bid anyone. it got to the point that, i decided to let 3 priests get the eye before me because i was winning loot like a champion. so i ended up being the good sport and getting the eye like, second to last. everyone has nostalgia moments, things that stood out. again doing that a second time, it would diminish the accomplishment of the first time for me it wouldn't be the same again.

as far as i'm concerned today, inclusive of all types of players and skill levels, the game is objectively better for every one this is unbiased, I enjoyed vanilla, I enjoy the game today, the game today, is a better game for EVERYONE not just SOME ppl. if you could raid every night, and grind consumables all day, sure vanilla has the ability to shoot you right to the top of the epeen ladder.
but its not like there isn't content in the game today that only a fraction of ppl get to see, its unlikely that ill see all the encounters in mythic, i might get to do some of them, but i'm most likely going to not see a lot of them. there is still a level of gear in this game that says 'look at my gear peasants', ppl i think are just too interested in their own progress to be drooling over other ppls progress.

No, it is still personal taste. There are many people that prefer D2 over D3, EQ1 over EQ2, FFXI over FFXIV, BF4 over BF1, Rock Music over EDM. Heck i personally still DJ with turntables instead of a digital DJ console even if the console would make my job way easier. Newer and more accessible doesnt automatically make a game better. Just because you like all the QoL improvements and because you think that they made the game better doesn´t mean that this is also true for all the other players. It´s baffeling how few people understand the concept of taste.

there is a difference between taste and arbitrary masochism. today, the game can be as masochistic as you want, classic was one level of masochism that didn't suit everyone. the game again is still largely the same, the principles that made the game successful, grouping up and running dungeons for loot, is still the best part of the game today. wow still has the best pve out of any mmo. but that bit is definitely opinion. I think the pve in this game has always been more enjoyable than pve in other mmos.

the problem with classic is it did really only suit one type of player, the player that raids every single day, that isn't a problem today thank god everyone can progress at their own pace. thats great because i don't only think about myself when playing this game. the game includes more tastes, there is content for all types, noobs to pros. casuals to elitists. everyone has content that can be a challenge for them.

the one size fits all dungeons and raids of vanilla would not support the current player base.

I completely understand the idea around gear lasting longer, having swarms of level 1's around you inspecting your gear. the problem with gear lasting longer is it runs counter to getting to see the content, you see its all fine and dandy being clad in t1 and sitting in ironforge with said swarm of newbs, what isn't fun is wishing you were raiding more days or making more progress, there comes a point where seeing the content, is better than being clad in epic gear and having gawking noobs ogle your epeen.

i would prefer to get to see the raids and progress through them than not make enough progress and miss out on the content. this is where i draw the line, i don't want that to happen again. i'd be surprised if anyone that was in a similar situation would want that to happen again.

anyone else here get part way through bwl by the time tbc released? that was kinda shit, it made the whole of that previous year feel completely wasted, it was great to get into a new expansion, but it did also shit on all the effort you put into the game the year before, it must have been worst if you were close to or making progress in naxx. there just wasn't enough time in the end, it didn't last long enough to let even average players reach the end tier, today i raid like 10 or so hours a week, in vanilla we did about 18hrs a week, that should have been enough time to progress, i don't see why you have to raid 40hrs a week to get anywhere or to get to the end before the next expansion comes along. that wasn't fun.

[Vineri]

I am not talking about the story, but about game design.

Regarding the last question, there were several posts by Blizzard employees which more or less said that they try to bring back the feeling that made WoW great. I can´t link them as it was probably a year ago, but i also remember a facebook post from the german Blizzard team to one of the comments on Legion where they said that they try to bring back the classic players.

Naturally dev's want to drum up business by saying they are doing X and Y.

A year later, nothing done to bring the feeling that made WoW great. Sure they tried enhancing difficulty, but whoa did they miss their mark. That wasn't what made Vanilla great.

Months ago, they introduced a concept for pristine realms, which shows how disconnected devs really are. [a concept even ridiculed on the official forums, while a classic server thread still lives, with heavy activity, comparatively.]

Game design meanwhile tanked, imo.

[lightofdawn]

Fine, BC. next argument.

BC is the only expansion whose questing i skip regularly... it's so spread out and boring after a playthrough or two... next argument

(see how providing almost no constructive input doesn't do anything?)

current wow beats BC in all areas aside from (***MAYBE***) pvp

[Ielenia]

Months ago, they introduced a concept for pristine realms, which shows how disconnected devs really are.

There are some very wrong things in that statement. There is no disconnect. Because the blue never said that "pristine realms" was what they believed the legacy WoW supporters wanted. They never came out and said "this is what people want!" Instead, it was presented in a "this is something we could do with what we currently got" sort of way. They even stated:

We aren’t sure whether this version of a clean slate is something that would appeal to the community and it’s still an open topic of discussion.

But hey, why let reality get in the way of insulting to those that don't really deserve it, right?

[Kul Tiras]

The fact that its predecessor was Everquest.

[Deleted]

Enhancing and revisiting the old world and bringing back some of the things that have been changed would be nice.

I do not want to go back in time. Sure I liked the original dead mines. I loved the original sunken temple. Do I want to go back in time to play them in retail?
No. If they really want to bring back old school dungeons they could do something with the emerald dragon flight but I don't see that happening either.

Some of the damage done by cata to the old world was... permanent I guess. They destroyed entire zones and dungeons.

[Coffeh]

It would be much easier to list what makes current WoW better than classic....nothing.

[AeneasBK]

you can still do those things though right, they are still concepts within the game?

for the last one, you were pretty screwed if you did come in late for vanilla, you were unlikely to progress through to the end.

Actually no, you had fucking so much shit you could do if you came in late to Vanilla. Hell plenty of people there from the start didn't see the inside of a raid; because it wasn't the be-all and end-all of the game.

unless ofc you got really lucky and had some guild snap you up and spoon feed you gear so you could join them in their current progress. i'm guessing by the mid point though, most 40 mans had their core team and weren't gearing ppl up any more. well at least i'm almost certain that if you joined the game mid way through 2006 you would have been unlikely to reach t2, let alone aq40 and naxx unless the above happened.

"Raid or gtfo" ruined this game. I'm not going to be boring and say "THAT IS OBJECTIVE" because I understand what the word means.

is it better that everyone gets to see the content today in some form? i think it is, everyone is paying to see it, there is no reason why they should arbitrarily be unable to see the content because ppl want to keep the value of their epeen. stupid elitist mentality can stay in vanilla. what can i say though i got my bene during vanilla and completing that quest was probably the best quest ill ever complete. sure i have my own nostalgia, the difference is, i'm happy to keep it a memory, i wouldn't enjoy redoing it again. i think it would actually diminish my accomplishments the first time if i were to run through it again. doing molten core and getting my benediction a second time, wouldn't feel as cool as it was the first time.

during vanilla i raided nearly every time there was a raid, it got to the point that i had too much dkp, i felt guilty a lot of the time because i could win pretty much any loot i wanted and just out bid anyone. it got to the point that, i decided to let 3 priests get the eye before me because i was winning loot like a champion. so i ended up being the good sport and getting the eye like, second to last. everyone has nostalgia moments, things that stood out. again doing that a second time, it would diminish the accomplishment of the first time for me it wouldn't be the same again.

Just sayin' from a GM and RL perspective people who have really high attendance and bank DKP are shitters Just sayin'

as far as i'm concerned today, inclusive of all types of players and skill levels, the game is objectively better for every one this is unbiased, I enjoyed vanilla, I enjoy the game today, the game today, is a better game for EVERYONE not just SOME ppl. if you could raid every night, and grind consumables all day, sure vanilla has the ability to shoot you right to the top of the epeen ladder.
but its not like there isn't content in the game today that only a fraction of ppl get to see, its unlikely that ill see all the encounters in mythic, i might get to do some of them, but i'm most likely going to not see a lot of them. there is still a level of gear in this game that says 'look at my gear peasants', ppl i think are just too interested in their own progress to be drooling over other ppls progress.

Progress which for the most part is boiled down to "What is your iLVL"

there is a difference between taste and arbitrary masochism. today, the game can be as masochistic as you want, classic was one level of masochism that didn't suit everyone. the game again is still largely the same, the principles that made the game successful, grouping up and running dungeons for loot, is still the best part of the game today. wow still has the best pve out of any mmo. but that bit is definitely opinion. I think the pve in this game has always been more enjoyable than pve in other mmos.

the problem with classic is it did really only suit one type of player, the player that raids every single day, that isn't a problem today thank god everyone can progress at their own pace. thats great because i don't only think about myself when playing this game. the game includes more tastes, there is content for all types, noobs to pros. casuals to elitists. everyone has content that can be a challenge for them.

Again, "raid or stop playing" killed this game :P You're entire perspective seems to be from that position.

the one size fits all dungeons and raids of vanilla would not support the current player base.

I completely understand the idea around gear lasting longer, having swarms of level 1's around you inspecting your gear. the problem with gear lasting longer is it runs counter to getting to see the content, you see its all fine and dandy being clad in t1 and sitting in ironforge with said swarm of newbs, what isn't fun is wishing you were raiding more days or making more progress, there comes a point where seeing the content, is better than being clad in epic gear and having gawking noobs ogle your epeen.

i would prefer to get to see the raids and progress through them than not make enough progress and miss out on the content. this is where i draw the line, i don't want that to happen again. i'd be surprised if anyone that was in a similar situation would want that to happen again.

Sure the logistics of raiding is different nowadays. You already admit that you don't have time for the only "proper" raiding content they make these days though so not sure why you're pretending the models are so vastly different.

anyone else here get part way through bwl by the time tbc released? that was kinda shit, it made the whole of that previous year feel completely wasted, it was great to get into a new expansion, but it did also shit on all the effort you put into the game the year before, it must have been worst if you were close to or making progress in naxx. there just wasn't enough time in the end, it didn't last long enough to let even average players reach the end tier, today i raid like 10 or so hours a week, in vanilla we did about 18hrs a week, that should have been enough time to progress, i don't see why you have to raid 40hrs a week to get anywhere or to get to the end before the next expansion comes along. that wasn't fun.

And herein lies the problem of a raid or gtfo style. After you've done one expac cycle you realise how "completely wasted" playing the expansions are. I'll maybe sub for the last 2 months of legion and see all the content it had to offer for a tenth of the subscription fee. Going by the logic of this paragraph anyway.

Whats' that? Its the EXPERIENCE that counts, not the loot? Holy crap, batman.

[Dormie]

BC is the only expansion whose questing i skip regularly... it's so spread out and boring after a playthrough or two... next argument

(see how providing almost no constructive input doesn't do anything?)

current wow beats BC in all areas aside from (***MAYBE***) pvp

You missed the point of why I said that I think.
And no current WoW doesn't beat BC. Why do you guys not get they're DIFFERENT, not better or worse.

[Deleted]

I must admit 1 thing. 1 thing that was 1000x better in Vanilla:

Better players and better community.

Today we are surrounded by LoL.

[Ebalina]

Yeah I'm amazed whenever I run a dungeon in vanilla and nobody throws a tantrum or quits the group after a wipe. For the most part people are patient, friendly, calm and optimistic, a wipe doesn't mean the end of the world. Obviously there are jerks too but they are few and far in between.

Nice joke.
If some one makes the grp wipe in a dungeon which i can solo as a tank without the need of a healer, i will not only trow a tantrum because some idiot overpulled 30+ mobs but i will goddamn make sure that idiot is kicked and known for it.
I will also ensure he knows he is a gobsmacking inbred before i kick him.

"run a vanilla dungeon" please..................... this is so funny its actually sad.

[Roar-Powah]

I am not talking about the story, but about game design.

Regarding the last question, there were several posts by Blizzard employees which more or less said that they try to bring back the feeling that made WoW great. I can´t link them as it was probably a year ago, but i also remember a facebook post from the german Blizzard team to one of the comments on Legion where they said that they try to bring back the classic players.

If Blizzard want to get players like my self from Classic back they need to remove CRZ from the game for starters. Back then it was all about "server communities" and not throw everyone from everywhere together in one zone bullshit they have going now. I did play Legion for a bit but this CRZ really killed it for my self, I'm done and never coming back to this watered down crap they call WoW. I still browse these and Blizzards forums / website from time to time just to check to see if Blizzard has grown a brain as of yet, i would love to play Wow again but not the way it is.

WoW needs to move away from this instant reward it has going for it now, back in Classic and even TBC you had to work for your gear and if you had purples or a Legendary on you deserved it for the most part. Now they throw purples out like it's a green and hand out legendaries out like it's going out of fashion. But Blizzard have dug their own hole so deep now they cannot get out of it. This game will never have the Classic feeling too it with these morons at the helm of Blizzard who only care about shareholders and not where the real income comes from as in the player base. They think that they are never wrong and spit on the player base, only when subs start to dangerous levels they start trying to communicate with everyone so the sinking ship might stay afloat a bit longer.

[Xirrohon]

Nostalgia for the most part.

Transmog made the game worse, not much incentive to go and grind the new cool weapons. Legendarys are just as bad.

Every class is now basically the same and can do everything.

Lastly, I was younger with too much time on my hands and no responsibilities... Lol

[Azgraal]

Short answer?

The shortage of options of other (great) games in or outside the same genre.

Classic WoW strictly speaking had nothing on the current game.

[Deleted]

Nice joke.
If some one makes the grp wipe in a dungeon which i can solo as a tank without the need of a healer, i will not only trow a tantrum because some idiot overpulled 30+ mobs but i will goddamn make sure that idiot is kicked and known for it.
I will also ensure he knows he is a gobsmacking inbred before i kick him.

"run a vanilla dungeon" please..................... this is so funny its actually sad.

Then you yourself would be known in the server as an idiot not worthy of being invited to the group.
And that's why vanilla TBC and the first half of wotlk had a better community. The likes of you were isolated

[Kyanion]

If Blizzard want to get players like my self from Classic back they need to remove CRZ from the game for starters. Back then it was all about "server communities" and not throw everyone from everywhere together in one zone bullshit they have going now. I did play Legion for a bit but this CRZ really killed it for my self, I'm done and never coming back to this watered down crap they call WoW. I still browse these and Blizzards forums / website from time to time just to check to see if Blizzard has grown a brain as of yet, i would love to play Wow again but not the way it is.

WoW needs to move away from this instant reward it has going for it now, back in Classic and even TBC you had to work for your gear and if you had purples or a Legendary on you deserved it for the most part. Now they throw purples out like it's a green and hand out legendaries out like it's going out of fashion. But Blizzard have dug their own hole so deep now they cannot get out of it. This game will never have the Classic feeling too it with these morons at the helm of Blizzard who only care about shareholders and not where the real income comes from as in the player base. They think that they are never wrong and spit on the player base, only when subs start to dangerous levels they start trying to communicate with everyone so the sinking ship might stay afloat a bit longer.

If you had a Legendary in classic and TBC you didn't always 'deserve' it. You either won the RNG in your guild to pick who gets it or let the group and decided you took it for yourself. There is a reason why they went away from that stupid Legendary system because people got fucked over all the time on it. Oh they decided it is a melee weapon this time around? Too bad everyone else! But it doesn't matter you see item color and you just can't get over it, oh god that person has 2 orange items and a lot of purple man GG Blizz.

I think it is a good thing people like you leave Legion and do something else you let the smallest things drive you crazy where you just can't stand it. Instead of just leaving and being done with it you have to make a post like this looking for attention and people to agree with you about why you chose to leave. Yeah they are "never wrong" that is why nothing ever changes and they can't admit the many wrongs of WoD. Oh wait.

[AeneasBK]

You either won the RNG in your guild to pick who gets it or let the group and decided you took it for yourself.

I don't think you used this term correctly

[Kyanion]

I don't think you used this term correctly

I used it correctly. Some guilds decided with /roll to figure out who was getting the legendary. Some would use methods based on if the person was an officer or leader of the guild. There were many methods for deciding but it all boiled down to a guild having to decide for one single person to get the thing or get started making it. Really was fun if that person stopped playing WoW or left the guild or other fun things that could happen.