What made classic wow better than current?

[Heathy]

classic just didn't last long enough, kungen salty his epeen got chopped off because the game no longer caters to his niche playstyle, what a shame.

if they held back tbc for another 6 months to a year, way more guilds would have got to, and cleared naxx. I just remember there not being enough lockouts to gear ppl up, not enough raids in a year to progress unless you were making progress every week. if you didn't make progress, you fell behind. if you fell behind you didn't get to see the content before tbc came along. it wasn't harder, it just took longer, you got less gear per week spread over 40 ppl, we were running molten core just for ragnaros, everything was getting disenchanted, but ppl still wanted t2 legs. zg was being run for the enchant, in the end we were doing 1 molten core raid, 1 bwl raid and 1 optional 20 man raid for zg/aq20. what we should have been doing is raiding more days, we needed to be doing 1 mc raid for raggy, then making progress in bwl during that same raid, then having a whole raid dedicated to bwl, and adding an extra day in the week to progress more.

if classic had lasted another year i know my guild would have been able to progress to the end, perhaps we would have struggled a bit, although if we had time to phase out our mc/zg/aq20 raids, we would have made a lot more progress in bwl and been able to move into aq40 and eventually naxx. the only thing that stopped us doing so was time. we killed vael on our, 2nd or 3rd bwl raid, the boss that was apparently the 'guild destroyer' yeah, we didn't struggle on him. in fact razorgore took more attempts to get right than vael did for us.

in other words if you weren't raiding 4-6 days a week and making progress you didn't get to the end, that is all it was, difficulty wasn't what stopped ppl reaching the end, having to raid every day did.

[Ielenia]

His opinion was that not only was the content actually harder, like the example he gives in the video,

The "examples" he gives in the video is Naxxramas, vanilla and Wrath. One was the last raid of the game before the next expansions, a raid that was admittedly overtuned, while the other was an entry-level raid (the first in the expansion), and re-tuned to be so easy players complained it was too easy. Yeah, great examples there.

but you also couldn't relly on the addons and bossguides or dungeon guides you have to day.

Again: guides, whether written or in video form, don't make fights easier. They simply cut off time that would be lost in learning the fight by yourself.

On top of that he also highlights the absence of magic aoe i heal everything buttons.

So you're saying that in vanilla there were no AE healing spells? Is that it?

I really doubt you payed attention to the video, i really really do.

Really hard to give credit to a guy who say "I played one month, and become #1 warrior". It means that, if he started at the beginning of WoD, 'one month' means that Mythic had opened barely a week before he stopped playing... meaning that the 'race' was still beginning. But if he started later, it means he got carried to that spot. Either way it doesn't lend him any credibility at all.

[wych]

The "examples" he gives in the video is Naxxramas, vanilla and Wrath. One was the last raid of the game before the next expansions, a raid that was admittedly overtuned, while the other was an entry-level raid (the first in the expansion), and re-tuned to be so easy players complained it was too easy. Yeah, great examples there.


Again: guides, whether written or in video form, don't make fights easier. They simply cut off time that would be lost in learning the fight by yourself.


So you're saying that in vanilla there were no AE healing spells? Is that it?


Really hard to give credit to a guy who say "I played one month, and become #1 warrior". It means that, if he started at the beginning of WoD, 'one month' means that Mythic had opened barely a week before he stopped playing... meaning that the 'race' was still beginning. But if he started later, it means he got carried to that spot. Either way it doesn't lend him any credibility at all.

Kungen was incredibly well known in early WoW, and plays private servers these days IIRC

[Ielenia]

Kungen was incredibly well known in early WoW, and plays private servers these days IIRC

"Early WoW" was a long time ago. I'm talking right now. I don't care how good you are, saying "I played one month and became #1 prot warrior" really hurts whatever 'credentials' he's trying to establish.

[voidillusion]

"Early WoW" was a long time ago. I'm talking right now. I don't care how good you are, saying "I played one month and became #1 prot warrior" really hurts whatever 'credentials' he's trying to establish.

In my book, the main tank of what was the top guild for so long, has some credit regarding difficulty of content.

[Kyanion]

In my book, the main tank of what was the top guild for so long, has some credit regarding difficulty of content.

Not when it comes to the game over the past few years it doesn't.

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And all that still amounts to pretty much the same thing, compare how many hours it took the world first guild to clear Naxx and how many hours it took the world first guild to clear HFC, you can't ignore variables just because you don't think they matter.

Yeah because the designs of the raids based around resist gear, multiple prot warriors in the case of naxx and so on have nothing to do with a game that is datamined to death, farmed on beta, strats learned quickly and so on. The game evolved and elite raiders got BETTER over the years.

[Ielenia]

In my book, the main tank of what was the top guild for so long, has some credit regarding difficulty of content.

Except his 'credit' kinda suffers a bit when he says all the experience he has on newer content... is just a month. Just a single month.

- - - Updated - - -

And all that still amounts to pretty much the same thing, compare how many hours it took the world first guild to clear Naxx and how many hours it took the world first guild to clear HFC, you can't ignore variables just because you don't think they matter.

I'm not ignoring variables. On the contrary, I'm including as many of them as I can. For example: I'm not ignoring the time it takes for a guild to formulate their own strategy based solely on their own experiences fighting a boss for the first time. I'm not ignoring grinding for resist gear, as well. What variables are you claiming I'm ignoring?

[Zuben]

The newness of it. Everything was unknown and something we hadn't previously experienced (in Warcraft). Recognizing the structures from WC3, but this time you could go inside them. It was a great feeling. The world also felt dangerous and mystical. I was playing a night elf in Darkshore, while my friends tested some dwarves in Loch Modan, which felt like it was a far, distant land.

These feelings didn't last. Once I reached the end game, the game became more arbitrary. I'd say it's much better now than then.

[Ohmega]

Community. That is the only thing that the current WoW lacks that the original WoW had in spades.

[Deleted]

...

So what exactly defines "hard" for you?
If it´s not the numbers, the strategy (which you had to find out back then because of little ressources, especially for new bosses) or the time it takes? If it´s not the absence of boss addons or perfectly theorycrafted classes? Today, you can even train the fights in all the other difficulties. All of that is irrelevant?
Please don´t be so deluded. I really love Legion, i do not play vanilla anymore as it is too time consuming for me, but the overall difficulty in Legion is nowhere near Vanilla-WoW (and, in my opinion, thats okay, because the "pro guilds" are angry when they are not able to clear a mythic raid after 2 weeks, which i think is absolutely hilarious).

[UnholySanctuary]

It's probably already been said, but I'm not going through 152 pages to varify lol. To me, it was a fresh experience. At the time, anything Warcraft was RTS, but now, you can finally explore this world in a different way.

[Kyanion]

So what exactly defines "hard" for you?
If it´s not the numbers, the strategy (which you had to find out back then because of little ressources, especially for new bosses) or the time it takes? If it´s not the absence of boss addons or perfectly theorycrafted classes? Today, you can even train the fights in all the other difficulties. All of that is irrelevant?
Please don´t be so deluded. I really love Legion, i do not play vanilla anymore as it is too time consuming for me, but the overall difficulty in Legion is nowhere near Vanilla-WoW (and, in my opinion, thats okay, because the "pro guilds" are angry when they are not able to clear a mythic raid after 2 weeks, which i think is absolutely hilarious).

Sure maybe the difficulty of Vanilla-WoW 12 years ago was more of a challenge but you can't honestly think that Vanilla-WoW has any difficulty left in it now that everything is well known and most bosses have less mechanics than 5 man bosses.

[Relapses]

Sure maybe the difficulty of Vanilla-WoW 12 years ago was more of a challenge but you can't honestly think that Vanilla-WoW has any difficulty left in it now that everything is well known and most bosses have less mechanics than 5 man bosses.

The problem with Vanilla difficulty is it more that Blizzard's idea of "difficult" in Vanilla was, "make a mechanic that does 80% of a player's HP assuming that player is already in full BiS." The mechanics themselves were fairly straightforward, the difficulty was that getting hit by nearly anything was either a one-shot or a near one-shot. Personally, I much prefer unique mechanics over simply dying so I'm glad Blizzard moved away from this design.

[Kyanion]

The problem with Vanilla difficulty is it more that Blizzard's idea of "difficult" in Vanilla was, "make a mechanic that does 80% of a player's HP assuming that player is already in full BiS." The mechanics themselves were fairly straightforward, the difficulty was that getting hit by nearly anything was either a one-shot or a near one-shot. Personally, I much prefer unique mechanics over simply dying so I'm glad Blizzard moved away from this design.

Hmm yeah that was pretty true, lot of one-shot or near one-shot stuff was running rampant. I seem to remember a nice chunk of that in TBC as well but by then other things had improved as well. I mean Vanilla difficulty 12 years ago was there because watching numerous MC-wipefests was amusing. If that type of difficulty held true you'd see MC-wipefests in PS. That doesn't happen. 12 years ago Vanilla was difficult. Current day PS Vanilla difficulty is not.

[Ielenia]

So what exactly defines "hard" for you?

What defines 'hard' for me? Something that takes great skill. "Time investment" is not skill. The "difficulty" is measured by how tight the strategy for the boss needs to be executed.

[Deleted]

What defines 'hard' for me? Something that takes great skill. "Time investment" is not skill. The "difficulty" is measured by how tight the strategy for the boss needs to be executed.

I never said that time investment is a skill, but it helped killing difficult bosses. As does knowledge and reaction. A higher difficulty usually goes hand in hand with more time investment.

To your credit the very question, "What made classic [WoW] better than current?" is predicated on the notion that current is bad (it isn't) and original was good (it wasn't), or worse that simply because one was bad the other must be good.

Yep, that´s why we are still discussing the game after 14 years, why it was/is one of the most influencial games ever made and why you are still able to play the game. Because it was not a good game.

Guys please... You can like and play Legion without senselessly hating vanilla WoW.

[Ielenia]

I never said that time investment is a skill, but it helped killing difficult bosses. As does knowledge and reaction. A higher difficulty usually goes hand in hand with more time investment.

Of course there is some time investment in difficulty. After all, some time needs to be invested to learn the fights, but time investment itself does not add to the difficulty of a given task. 'Task A' is not inherently harder than 'task B' simply because 'A' takes longer to complete than 'B'. "Time investment", for me, implies the time prior to raid that you must invest (farming resist gear, consumables, etc) as well as time used to develop a strategy for a boss. The only difficult part, in my opinion, comes from executing the strategy well enough that it ends with a dead boss at the end.

[A dot Ham]

Yep, that´s why we are still discussing the game after 14 years, why it was/is one of the most influencial games ever made and why you are still able to play the game. Because it was not a good game.

Guys please... You can like and play Legion without senselessly hating vanilla WoW.

Yes we are still discussing it precisely because the game DID change, it DID evolve, Blizzard adapted to the changing market.

A few words taken completely out of context. Vanilla had a LOT of growing pains, ones that many like to forget or gloss over. Legion also has its issues.

I loved my glass cannon specs in Vanilla... doesn't mean that was good class design.

We are also talking about completely different games for completely different times. 30 year old me wouldn't have the patience for vanilla wow and dial-up internet. To that end 18 year old me would fucking love playing a DH and the lore of legion, coming right off of WCIII.

The OPs title is very one sided. "What made classic wow better than current?" is more of a statement than a question it doesn't actually leave a whole lot of room for discussion. Classic wow isn't better than current.

As stated from the post you misrepresented and contextually misquoted, I explained that nearly every argument describing why one is better than the other is completely fallacious.

Guys please... You can be nostalgic about vanilla WoW without senselessly hating on Legion.

Perhaps you should apply that sense you clearly think you have and strengthen your arguments rather than trying to pick a fight with the one guy that remained pretty neutral who was really pointing out the irony in the question, and the futility of such a discussion.

*Angry poster with rose colored glasses sees enemies everywhere*

[Deleted]

This is hilarious. A machinima from Nixxion that reminds me of this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHWIh8XW5B8&t=6m12s

[Relapses]

This is hilarious. A machinima from Nixxion that reminds me of this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHWIh8XW5B8&t=6m12s

How does awful, stale and completely unhumorous pandering bullshit like that get 100k views in less than a week? Jesus, I should make Machimas.