What made classic wow better than current?

[Bapestar]

So how did people get groups without group finder? You zealots are saying no one spammed group/trade chat...now you're saying people didn't sit in front of a summoning stone...so what is it? People magically thought "Gee...I want to run Scholomance today!" Then people just sent said person a tell saying they want to run Scholo today too?

Stop with the bullshit...I can't tell you how many times I've seen Vanilla fanbois lie...you just keep lying your asses off any way you can just to make Vanilla better than the piece of shit it was.

From claiming pirate servers had more activity than they really did, to claim hybrid specs are viable when they do half the dps or less than a real dps spec, and now claiming servers were just tight knit groups of nothing but good people. Well that is bullshit...sure maybe some people were nicer...but servers weren't one big happy family like you make it sound...there were still trolls...there were trolls back then as there are trolls now.

So please...stop with the lying bullshit vanilla zealots...

We didn't deny that, just pointing out your exaggerations. Quote any of us claiming vanilla had no trolls or toxicity. You say it took hours to get a group, but say you were on a non dead server...

[Airwaves]

Besides feeling like something new. NOTHING. It was fun at the time. But compared to WoW today it was a broken, buggy and boring mess of a game. Anyone who thinks it wasn't didn't even play it or looking at it though some dam thick nostalgia goggles.

[Demonfetus]

Things were harder to get and the servers weren't connected. People need to feel the fruit of their hard work and they need people to share it with. Not be the 1000000th person in a sea of anonymous to get a mostly RNG free epic. Community was tight and the world felt huge. WoW is a reflection of the world we live in. Back then people felt pride in the small things and they had a purpose in life. Now you have globalization and amazing technology but you have millennials like us without a sense of purpose and mental illness through the roof. See the similarity?

[Lahiri]

DISCLAIMER: Opinions are below. I am well aware other people may think differently to me.

To look at this from another angle, let's consider some of the things that are really worse (in my opinion!). The unfortunate thing is that they are key design decisions which can't be escaped, hence why I believe the legacy 'movement' has become such a big deal. TBC was different to vanilla, but it still felt like the same game. At some point the differences became so vast that they are essentially different games altogether. Personally experiencing some of the changes left me feeling bitter. To be fair I think Legion has done a lot to move in the right direction which is why I believe it appears much more successful than the last couple of expansions. Anywho onto the points.. which all kind of tie in together really

General difficulty -. Please don't jump down my throat here - I have no doubt that WoW at top end is far more difficult now than it used to be in vanilla. However, in general play, the difficulty is not there. A lot of the fun I get from gaming is overcoming a challenge, the sense of general risk to yourself. I don't want to have to switch this on when I am level 110 and geared. I want it to permeate my entire gameplay experience, more or less from level 1. I played since retail vanilla and my first time on a private vanilla server shocked me. By level 8 I was forced to group with players to complete a non elite quest. The world felt deadly, dangerous, exciting. This made it compelling. It made it FUN. It made it engaging.

Difficulty levels - There is something just lame, in my eyes, about repeating the same content on multiple difficulties. The sense of achievement is not the same. The desire to overcome the challenge is not as great. The immersion in the world, the characters.. is lost. The number of difficulties has become ridiculous. However these difficulties are not available everywhere. I can't turn off, for example, easy mode levelling. I feel like the correct way to have done difficulty levels would have been completely separate realms.

Invalidation of previous content - This general theme has become that once a new patch / raid is out all previous content is no longer important due to catch up mechanics / gearing. I used to like that the game was a progression. I was never at the top end of it, and it didn't matter to me! All I saw was all the content I had yet to complete. All the content still relevant to me.

Insane gear scaling. Multiple difficulty levels leads to ridiculous gear scaling leads to further invalidation of previous content.... All of this is just one difficulty level muggled up mess that just feels bad and is not fun.

Class + spec diversity. It no longer feels like classes and specs but that each spec is effectively its own class. You lose the use of so many abilities by changing spec. The problem being that what this has actually caused is everything to feel more alike because how different can they all really be? Classes used to be very different and that flavour has been lost. The pruning killed what was left of it. Homogenization in the name of balance was bad. The whole bring the player not the class thing went too far. So much depth was lost from the game just due to this.

There are probably more points but I think what this all leads to is loss of the sense of adventure, loss of immersion in a world, loss of the sense you are playing a unique character - developing it and overcoming obstacles working with others around you. It just doesn't feel as fun as the old way.

[Mazaxist]

I'm doing some research and I'd like to hear your opinions guys and gals

no LFR/LFD
no connected realms
no flying mounts
no arena
no name changes
no character boost
no pet battles
no WOD models
no RANDOM LOOT ( wow is not a diablo !!! )
no Legendary randomness

SINGLE DIFFICULTY dungeons/raids
COMMUNITY where people actually talk to each other
REASON to go out into the world to get gold or PVP


the list just goes on. Of course there are some cool things current retail game offers

[Logwyn]

No cross realm ghosts that pop up then are never to be seen again.

[Kyanion]

snip

So one of your big complaints is that expansions don't have as many zones as the base game...well they are expanding upon the game not trying to give you 20+ zones each time around.

[Vash The Stampede]

TBC was different to vanilla, but it still felt like the same game.

In my opinion TBC was better than Vanilla but lacked that extra care like class quests, dungeon tier set, and stuff like Priests Benediction staff. It also tried to make some specs viable and took a dump on others. It sould have made all specs viable like WOTLK.

General difficulty -. Please don't jump down my throat here - I have no doubt that WoW at top end is far more difficult now than it used to be in vanilla. However, in general play, the difficulty is not there. A lot of the fun I get from gaming is overcoming a challenge, the sense of general risk to yourself. I don't want to have to switch this on when I am level 110 and geared. I want it to permeate my entire gameplay experience, more or less from level 1. I played since retail vanilla and my first time on a private vanilla server shocked me. By level 8 I was forced to group with players to complete a non elite quest. The world felt deadly, dangerous, exciting. This made it compelling. It made it FUN. It made it engaging.

I'd like think that difficulty can be fun, if done right. Dark Souls proves that it can be.

Difficulty levels - There is something just lame, in my eyes, about repeating the same content on multiple difficulties. The sense of achievement is not the same. The desire to overcome the challenge is not as great. The immersion in the world, the characters.. is lost. The number of difficulties has become ridiculous. However these difficulties are not available everywhere. I can't turn off, for example, easy mode levelling. I feel like the correct way to have done difficulty levels would have been completely separate realms.

Another one for Dark Souls. Dark Souls has no difficulty level, but it can be easier if you choose to play differently. Being a caster is generally easier than melee. Difficulty levels are outdated and lazy game design.

Invalidation of previous content - This general theme has become that once a new patch / raid is out all previous content is no longer important due to catch up mechanics / gearing. I used to like that the game was a progression. I was never at the top end of it, and it didn't matter to me! All I saw was all the content I had yet to complete. All the content still relevant to me.

This was another thing Vanilla did right. You started from the bottom and worked your way to the top. No shorcuts, and you shouldn't want them. After all that's part of the game, and you should want to experience that part of the game. Why skip 95% of the game just to experience only 5% of it?

Class + spec diversity. It no longer feels like classes and specs but that each spec is effectively its own class. You lose the use of so many abilities by changing spec. The problem being that what this has actually caused is everything to feel more alike because how different can they all really be? Classes used to be very different and that flavour has been lost. The pruning killed what was left of it. Homogenization in the name of balance was bad. The whole bring the player not the class thing went too far. So much depth was lost from the game just due to this.

This is something I miss from Vanilla as well. Due to PvP balance, a lot of spells and abilities are now unique to specs. As a Paladin I don't get the healing specs Holy gets, and certain things like Cleanse. Even further, PvP has it's own talents on top of PvE. Which means when I play my character I have two modes to deal with. PvP mode and PvE mode.

Also another plus for Dark Souls, in that the game doesn't have different talents for PvP. They really should make a Dark Souls MMO.

- - - Updated - - -

So one of your big complaints is that expansions don't have as many zones as the base game...well they are expanding upon the game not trying to give you 20+ zones each time around.

If you read what I posted, I said the lack of zones is just one complaint of many. I can list many more, but it would take a lot of time and other people have done it and will probably do it better than myself. I think you're so focused on zones cause you realize that Legion is not even 1/4 the size of Vanilla.

[RobertMugabe]

As always, I enjoy vanilla for different reasons than legion. Generally said, vanilla felt a lot more like an RPG and Legion more like an esports game (not hating on any), though I have to say that the inbalance, use of reagents (and other annoyances) and the gameplay were the main reasons it felt more like an RPG.

[Kithelle]

We didn't deny that, just pointing out your exaggerations. Quote any of us claiming vanilla had no trolls or toxicity. You say it took hours to get a group, but say you were on a non dead server...

And? Just because I wasn't on a dead server doesn't mean there were people up 24/7 for the instance I may want to run at the time, especially depending on instance...since some of the best higher level instances were so long.

[Kyanion]

If you read what I posted, I said the lack of zones is just one complaint of many. I can list many more, but it would take a lot of time and other people have done it and will probably do it better than myself. I think you're so focused on zones cause you realize that Legion is not even 1/4 the size of Vanilla.

And I said "so one of your big complaints" I never said your only complaint.

Umm duh Legion is an EXPANSION. It isn't the base game. You know how long Vanilla WoW was worked on? You could make the same complaint about every expansion when compared to the amount of zones/size of Vanilla.

[Vash The Stampede]

And I said "so one of your big complaints" I never said your only complaint.

Umm duh Legion is an EXPANSION. It isn't the base game. You know how long Vanilla WoW was worked on? You could make the same complaint about every expansion when compared to the amount of zones/size of Vanilla.

I feel that TBC and WOTLk at least tried to reach the size of Eastern Kingdoms. Cata had portals to zones you can visit, mostly zones that were blocked off in Vanilla and some that just magically appeared. MoP was decently sized, though boring. Wod was smaller than TBC, and they literally based the zone from TBC. Tanaan Jungle wasn't accessible until patch 6.2.

I understand that expansions aren't meant to be as big as the base game, but understand that you're paying $50 which is the price of a new game. It's not so much an expansion as it's a game being stapled to another game. I'd hate to see what they'll do with expansions with Emerald Dream or maybe even visiting Eredar. Emerald Dream is literally a backup copy of Azeroth, and Eredar is literally another world. Those would be great opportunities to create another Vanilla like experience. They won't cause that requires real development time and money. Instead we'll get yet another island that was just magically discovered in Azeroth for adventurers like you to conquer. Sorry I mean heroes cause that's what I'm constantly being told in the game. Cause a Warlock is clearly a hero.

Though I like how they made players go back and revisit zones like Karazhan. We knew there was more to Karazhan and it's nice to see they finally completed Karazhan. There's nothing wrong with having players go to areas outside the new continents. They need to do more of that.

[Echo of Soul]

Generally said, vanilla felt a lot more like an RPG.

This is my general feeling too. The last couple of years it feels like Blizzard have been trying to cater to a crowd that doesn't even like RPGs in the first place because they're bigger in numbers but in the process they've alienated the people that fell in love with the game when it first launched.

[Mitak]

The current wow is much better than what we had back in the day. That said there is something that i miss. The class fantasy back in the day (thorough skill trees and skills) was better than now. With current expansions everything is about balance and control (from blizzard's side), even class fantasy takes a second seat.
Gone are the days where where we had super dark nights and you noticed that patrolling city guards carry a lantern as it actually made a difference. Gone are the crazy downpours in Elwynn forest. The time where only Alliance had paladins and horde had shamans, gone.
Even class fantasy of paladins having auras disappeared as couple of % defense made blizzard's balancing act harder.

I do not miss vanilla wow. I miss the feel of the world and fantasy that died because of vocal minorities (i play only during nights, i want it to be light during the night because i cant play, waaah, wah) and balance. Dont get me wrong, balance is good in an MMO, but not at the expense of class fantasy.

[Caelia]

You couldn't buy gold with money.

Not from Blizzard but gold seller spam was the most common thing to see in general and trade chat, and a lot of people I knew back then did buy gold since they didn't have the time to raid and farm the mats needed for raiding.
Today you don't even need to buy gold in any way shape or form since gold is literally thrown at you.

As for the OPs question, the only thing I can think of is that there was no cross realm and no LFG tool so you had to actually intertact with the people on the server, other than that there was nothing that was better about the game, it was new and exciting and that's about it.
I had the most fun times in Vanilla and TBC but that was because of the guild I was in, neither of them are even close in quality to the game we have today.

[voidillusion]

As for the OPs question, the only thing I can think of is that there was no cross realm and no LFG tool so you had to actually intertact with the people on the server, other than that there was nothing that was better about the game, it was new and exciting and that's about it.
I had the most fun times in Vanilla and TBC but that was because of the guild I was in, neither of them are even close in quality to the game we have today.

I'm quoting you Caelia but this isn't direct at you specifically. I just want to point out that most of the ppl that used this argument already in this thread, and they were plenty, the "game was new and exciting" argument, would probably find out that they would enjoy more and have more fun given the chance to play it again.

And i have this feeling because yes it was new and exciting, but it was also a better game overall than today with all it's failures and they were many, but well nothing is perfect.

[Crookids]

Truthfully, mostly nothing.

I have played since Vanilla and from doing a little research into these YouTube channels, I noticed most of those who switched from Legion to Vanilla never actually played during that time. Usually, their entire synopses and euphoria induced monologues are about the leveling experience. Personally, I don't know how anyone could like the leveling better since there is nothing fun about watching an auto-attack 50% of the time (nor does it require more skill, just more patience). Nevertheless, WoW has never been about leveling.

When I talk to true Vanilla players -- most of them agree with me that times weren't as joyous as others make it seem. I've also heard people say they love Vanilla and then I find out they're 18 years old making it impossible that they actively played during that time. It's just people regurgitating what someone else has said in an attempt to make it seem like they are knowledgeable. You see it all the time in guilds. You know, the dude with no street smarts who thinks that calling out other people when he is bad makes him look good? It may work on some, but on others--we'll just cringe.

You also see it in the comment section of almost every WoW video. You know, the group of people who constantly say WoW is too easy now. The ones who don't play, never progressed past any real content back when or LFR recently (or don't even play anymore) acting like the game is extremely easy. Hell, you even see it with current players. If anything, with how detailed logs are between being able to monitor every single thing another player does -- the game becomes increasingly more difficult to perform at your peak. It's compelling, challenging and competitive. If not with other people, with yourself. To go back in and do better than you did the week before. I have seen it with real life friends who refuse and despise Legion and will only play Nostalrius. They haven't even done anything note worthy where they are in a position to gauge how 'easy' new content is.

In Vanilla there was none of this. Half of the raid going AFK during MC. People being feared into whelps. No way to see who wasn't doing what they're supposed to. Running out of quests looking around aimlessly or grinding to progress. Being stuck looting. Realm crashes. 30 minute runs after a wipe. The list goes on.

Don't get me wrong; I reminisce about the 'ol days quite often. But that's where it ends. It's easy to remember how often people were complaining back then and for good reason. The game needed to improve. I can see where now there is more emphasis on casual players but still most of the content and plenty of content is there for the hardcore. We are still very rewarded for putting the time in. However, treating this game like a drug and chasing that initial high simply blinds people from enjoying the content/QOL we stomped our feet for over a decade ago.

[Deleted]

Classic wow now isn't better than legion, at all.

Back when it was released, it was good because the concept was unique, which is something that can't be said about legion.

But since that's not a fair or meaningful comparison, classic is where it belongs; in the past.

[Varaben]

Fantastic video. :-) You've completely understood/presented the fundamental point. The moment is simply gone, it'll never be fresh or new in that sense again.

And yet, there are thousands and thousands of people bending over backwards to play this game.

Nostalgia is just as valid an emotion as any other. It drives behavior and gives satisfaction like any other emotion. People say "just nostalgia" and that's laughable. It doesn't change that the game is fun for thousands of people, even 12 years later. It does mean that "new" players may not like the game, but who cares? There's more than enough demand for private servers to exist and even flourish. There's enough population for 3-4 servers to be relatively full and that's plenty.

Sure, the moment is "simply gone," but it doesn't change the fact that I'd rather play Vanilla than live right now. Who cares if it will never be fresh and new? The reality is that it's a completely different game than what exists today. That doesn't necessarily make it better or worse, it's just very different.

[Deleted]

Socially the game was alot better.