Experts worried after Hundreds of neo-Nazis have 'gone underground' in Germany

[Deleted]

I don't follow. This is a top news story today so why can't we discuss it?

Muslim islamists. Google "jews leaving europe" and you will find dozen of recent articles about how jews in Europe are feeling because of the hatered against them shown by their muslim neighbours.

[NineSpine]

I said "That people coming as refugees are committing terrorism, rapes and large scale sexual assaults, which is true. It doesn't say all of them are." Is that true or not? Did those events happen in Cologne and Berlin? If the answer is yes, then what I said is true and they did, so it is.

There is no denial of facts.

I am not sure what you are hoping I will admit to, nor what you think I hate about them. Could you clarify that? Unless you are referring to the fact I don't like terrorists or rapists, I am not really sure if hating them is bad in your eyes.

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Maybe the Neo-Nazis have a decent pension plan? The original Nazis were quite snappy dressers as well.

So your position is "Refugees can and do commit crimes." How is that useful? What demographic can't and doesn't commit crimes? The dead? People in comas? I hate to state the obvious, but Germans commit crimes too.

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First of, the articles are not the source, the source is this:

https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downlo....html?nn=62336

Second, I even quoted it for you, the articles contain contradicting messages because at least the second one got it wrong. Let me quote it again: "Refugees from Iraq and Syria as well as from the Balkans were also more likely to commit crimes than from other countries of origin.". That is factually incorrect.

Also do elaborate which claim did I make that is not backed up by the data? Be specific.

For all your posturing about factual reality you have a hard time figuring this one out havent you?

There's nothing wrong with the facts here. You trying to nitpick things and misrepresent them just continues to further expose your delusional disinterest in reality.

[JohnBrown1917]

People aren't turning into hardcore racists though.

That is what Neo-Nazis are.

[Deleted]

That is what Neo-Nazis are.

You can vote for parties in protest to other parties policy. It doesn't make you an adherant to the ideological position of the party. People here in my country are voting far right as a protest, not because they suddenly became racist or nazi.

[Runenwächter]

There's nothing wrong with the facts here. You trying to nitpick things and misrepresent them just continues to further expose your delusional disinterest in reality.

So ARE people from Syria and Irak more likely to commit crime than refugees from other countries of origin as the link you provided states?

If so why does the first link you posted claim this not to be true and why is this not confirmed by the data in the bka link?

[NineSpine]

So ARE people from Syria and Irak more likely to commit crime than refugees from other countries of origin as the link you provided states?

If so why does the first link you posted claim this not to be true and why is this not confirmed by the data in the bka link?

Because there is conflicting data, probably due to the sample size of actual crimes being so god damn small, which doesn't validate your case. It INVALIDATES is. Hence why there sentence right before the one you cherry picked is "Sex crimes made for less than 1 percent of all crimes committed by refugees, while homicide registered the smallest fraction at 0,1 percent."

It's very clear that what you have is not a genuine interest in safety or security, but some ulterior motive that you too cowardly to actually state.

[Runenwächter]

You can vote for parties in protest to other parties policy. It doesn't make you an adherant to the ideological position of the party. People here in my country are voting far right as a protest, not because they suddenly became racist or nazi.

If you can vote something like APPD (Anarchistische Pogo Partei Deutschlands, think vermin supreme with more body odor) that promise free beer for everyone all the time without being an addicted alcoholic, but to express your dissatisfaction with major parties, you can do the same on the right side of the spectrum.

[Mayhem]

So your position is "Refugees can and do commit crimes." How is that useful? What demographic can't and doesn't commit crimes? The dead? People in comas? I hate to state the obvious, but Germans commit crimes too.

Not quite, it´s a large group of people as refugees that commit those crimes and 60% of that large group actually aren´t refugees.

It´s anyones buest guess what a large group and then 60% of that actually is in numbers.

[NineSpine]

Not quite, it´s a large group of people as refugees that commit those crimes and 60% of that large group actually aren´t refugees.

It´s anyones buest guess what a large group and then 60% of that actually is in numbers.

"Police: refugees commit less crime than Germans"
https://www.thelocal.de/20151113/pol...s-than-germans

"Report: refugees have not increased crime rate in Germany"
http://www.dw.com/en/report-refugees...any/a-18848890

[Mayhem]

You can vote for parties in protest to other parties policy. It doesn't make you an adherant to the ideological position of the party. People here in my country are voting far right as a protest, not because they suddenly became racist or nazi.

Great idea, let´s give the far right more money and influence out of protest! What could go wrong?!

[Kalis]

So your position is "Refugees can and do commit crimes." How is that useful? What demographic can't and doesn't commit crimes? The dead? People in comas? I hate to state the obvious, but Germans commit crimes too.

I would regard mass sexual assaults and terrorism as being on the somewhat more serious end of crime, and not something we really want to be importing.

Could you clarify the part that you are hoping I would admit to, or what you think I hate about them? You missed that.

[Deleted]

Great idea, let´s give the far right more money and influence out of protest! What could go wrong?!

The other parties should start listening to the voters if they want to avoid people feeling that they have to vote for them to cause a change in the other parties policies. It's not particularly useful or meaningful to brand these voters as nazi or racist if they vote in protest.

[Runenwächter]

Because there is conflicting data, probably due to the sample size of actual crimes being so god damn small, which doesn't validate your case. It INVALIDATES is. Hence why there sentence right before the one you cherry picked is "Sex crimes made for less than 1 percent of all crimes committed by refugees, while homicide registered the smallest fraction at 0,1 percent."

It's very clear that what you have is not a genuine interest in safety or security, but some ulterior motive that you too cowardly to actually state.

How is a collective sample size of several hundreds of thousands (already excluding foreigner specific crime such as illegaly entering the country, etc.) of cases to small? This gives us very accurate data overall.

Why are you shifting the argument to sex crimes when overall crime was what we were talking about? The statistic has ~1600 cases of sex crimes listed where the suspect was determined and a foreigner. Even in this 1% subgroup the sample size is plenty to determine trends and differences according to culture and nationality.

What the fuck is this about motive? You either come clean and tell us what your magic mind reading wishbone told you about me or shut the fuck up and put that thought back into the bin of stupid it came from.

[Mayhem]

"Police: refugees commit less crime than Germans"
https://www.thelocal.de/20151113/pol...s-than-germans

"Report: refugees have not increased crime rate in Germany"
http://www.dw.com/en/report-refugees...any/a-18848890

"Yeah, but think of the people in cologne and in berlin!"

Seriously, it´s rather useless talking to them, it´s nothing but fun to point out the flaws in their arguments.

[NineSpine]

I would regard mass sexual assaults and terrorism as being on the somewhat more serious end of crime, and not something we really want to be importing.

Could you clarify the part that you are hoping I would admit to, or what you think I hate about them? You missed that.

No, the labels you place on specific crimes does not actually make them more serious. A terrorist attack that kills 10 people is no more serious than any mass murder that kills 10 people. Crying "terrorism" is just a way of elevating a criminal act to some special, mythical status. You are ignoring the blatant, plain facts that have been presented to you, in favor of anecdotes that justify a preconceived worldview.

Just say "I don't like these people as people. I don't like them ethnically, and I don't like them racially. I believe I am superior to them in these contexts. I am a racist." Stop pussyfooting around and being a coward. It's pathetic.

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How is a collective sample size of several hundreds of thousands (already excluding foreigner specific crime such as illegaly entering the country, etc.) of cases to small? This gives us very accurate data overall.

Why are you shifting the argument to sex crimes when overall crime was what we were talking about? The statistic has ~1600 cases of sex crimes listed where the suspect was determined and a foreigner. Even in this 1% subgroup the sample size is plenty to determine trends and differences according to culture and nationality.

What the fuck is this about motive? You either come clean and tell us what your magic mind reading wishbone told you about me or shut the fuck up and put that thought back into the bin of stupid it came from.

You know what the motive is. It is a deep and profound hatred of these people. That is why you don't care about the facts or the evidence. You care about demonization. authoritarians like yourself are driven by your hatred of other groups of people. Just admit it, be real, and move on. Stop fucking pretending.

[Runenwächter]

You know what the motive is. It is a deep and profound hatred of these people. That is why you don't care about the facts or the evidence. You care about demonization. authoritarians like yourself are driven by your hatred of other groups of people. Just admit it, be real, and move on. Stop fucking pretending.

Are you disregarding the bka report that the short talking points that your articles repeat and even partialy misrepresent or get wrong is based on? I linked it to you. I made it "one click to the source" level of easy to confirm yourself. I hope you at least know what that report is and who or rather what the bka is that has published it.

Which group is it that I am supposed to be driven by hatred against? How do you determine that I am authoritarian? Again, what statement did I make that is factually incorrect? Please do provide me with a direct unaltered quote and I will reexamine it. Be specific and either stop frothing from the mouth because you seem to see the devil in me or stop trolling this thread. Either way, stop.

[Mayhem]

The other parties should start listening to the voters if they want to avoid people feeling that they have to vote for them to cause a change in the other parties policies. It's not particularly useful or meaningful to brand these voters as nazi or racist if they vote in protest.

It´s hard to listen to people who base their protest on facebook rants and tabloids.

[Mizix]

But I'm talking about German citizens living in their own country who are not feeling safe anymore.

True, there probably has been a raise in crime (don't know the statistics though) but "not feeling safe" and "not actually being safe" are two different things. People didn't feel safe taking airplanes after 9/11 and many probably avoided to fly for a period of time due to their fears, yet being hijacked by terrorists remains a very rare and exceptional occurrence all around the world. People can take defense courses, carry pepper spray, etc. because they don't feel safe and yes, there probably is an higher chance for them to be attacked by someone (not necessarily a refugee though) than dying in a plane crash due to a terrorist plot, however, people's feeling are not an accurate measure of the reality. These feelings point to a growing sense of insecurity driven mostly by paranoia, which can be politically exploited (and it has been). This is especially true for the people that already have a prejudice against foreigners, xenophobia that, until a decade or so ago, translated in other Europeans, more specifically East Europeans, and not in Muslims or Africans.

It is easy to say that terrorism and the fears that go along with it are associated with immigration, asylum seekers and Muslims alone. But you are forgetting decades of European history: Italy had their own terrorist organisations for decades after WWII (the 60s and 70s in particular are know as the "anni di piombo" due to the violence and terrorist attacks carried out in the name of diverging political views. The 80s saw the second mafia war, resulting in thousand of deaths not only among criminals. Germany also experienced terrorism during the 70s and 80s due to political extremism; not to mention that East Germans also had to deal with the communist police, which I doubt actually made people feel safe at the time. Spain had to deal with the separatist and terrorist group ETA until well into the new century (the group officially ceased its activities in 2011 only); ETA is responsible for almost 1000 deaths and four decades of terror. The UK and France had a similar situation with IRA and the Independence groups from Algeria and Lebanon. The Ex-Yougoslavia imploded on itself and it wasn't pretty at all. Also doubt people felt safe in their homes at the time.

List goes on. Point is: Europeans have had to deal with terror, violence and not feeling safe for a number of reasons in the past. The current "terror wave" is the first Millennials are experiencing but older people know better. This is not to justify or to diminish the severity of our current situation, it's just to put things a little more in perspective for those who think that Europe has been a peaceful and safe place until Muslim refugees started to come along a decade or so ago after the "War on Terror" began.

[Kalis]

No, the labels you place on specific crimes does not actually make them more serious. A terrorist attack that kills 10 people is no more serious than any mass murder that kills 10 people. Crying "terrorism" is just a way of elevating a criminal act to some special, mythical status. You are ignoring the blatant, plain facts that have been presented to you, in favor of anecdotes that justify a preconceived worldview.

There aren't that many mass murderers though, so that is an odd claim to make.

Just say "I don't like these people as people. I don't like them ethnically, and I don't like them racially. I believe I am superior to them in these contexts. I am a racist." Stop pussyfooting around and being a coward. It's pathetic.

Would be a bit silly for me to not like them racially, considering I am the spitting image of my father and he comes from this region...



Whoops!

[Deleted]

It´s hard to listen to people who base their protest on facebook rants and tabloids.

It's this exact attitude that causes people to vote for them.